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Toaru Majutsu no Index Discussion Thread 3

Yeah, the Telesma bomb by Fiamma was tanked, not reflected. I would say that its vector shield would be able to reflect an attack of that magnitude, given how he handled manipulating the Earth's rotational energy on his attack on the Windowless Building and Kamachi putting it right next to Kagun's spell as an ability with an infinite ceiling.
 
ah, yes i forget about rotational energy even in manga accel can messed up with earth revolution force. and what do you mean with kamachi putting it right next to kagun spell as ability with an infinite ceiling?
 
In the Afterword of NT4 Kamachi compares Kagun's spell that nullifies all lethal attacks to Accelerator's reflection, as both are absolute defensive abilities that turn the enemy strength against them, but while Accelerator does this by reflecting individual attacks back at the enemy Kagun does this by the magic blade growing stronger every time he nullifies a lethal attack.

NT4 Afterword:

He could nullify all fatal attacks, but he also had a sword spell that increases its destructive power every time he was attacked. Thus, when facing a fierce attack by the enemy, he could use a spell that has an infinite ceiling. This is different from Accelerator in that it's not the control of just one attack, but that the thing that's worth noting is that once the power increases, he could maintain such destructive power when fighting the enemy in the future. As his name suggested, he really was an inflating bastard.
 
High Priest is the youngest of the Magic Gods and a pure maiden at heart! Didn't you see his love letter to Touma?
 
Sorry ive been away for awhile. In a place with no internet connection for awhile and probably will be unable to respond to a frw more days after

But as pointed out earlier the big bang is the creation of the universe, which is low 2-c. So i prefer that interpretation.

However i strongly disagree with downgrading the magic gods dura because of this. He can still amp himself after this attack to get stronger and stronger. And as we know, the magic gods have been beating the crap out of eachother and surviving just fine. I know they are weakened but that should also apply to their full power.

We also dont assume glass cannon dura unless it's explicitly shown or stated. Having infinitely smaller durability is silly.

I would throw it up to Kamachi not understanding how strong his characters are. I mean going by VsB's ap chart Carissa has a high 1-C attack.

>And about Blasting Rod making it 2-C, I've been told a few times that no matter how casual a Low 2-C is they cannot be made 2-C unless they affect 2 universes at once, which is why characters like Othinus who can easily warp the entire universe hundreds of millions of times are considered inferior to someone who created two universes once. I would assume multipliers like Blasting Rod would also not change that.

Its really a case by case basis about the casual low 2-c stuff but more often then not that is the case. Multipliers are a totally different ballgame and are acceptable in that case.
 
Lazy Hunter is Beast of downgrading and nerf no wonder he is huge fan of kamachi ~

Anyway we agreed on leaving the magic gods alone and rate Alister on his own for now, becuase saying he's attack is powerful as Big Bang and can hurt magic gods who are Multiverse+ create few problems

Anyway about low 2-C can anyone please explain to me how having enough power to blow the universe 10 times over is different than destroying 10 universes ? Crowley have enough power to destroy the universe and then he power up himself on the top of that 10 times and he can do it million of times depend on how he use the Blasting Road

But then again isn't the big bang just 3-A ? you have to space and timeline to be Low 2-C
 
To sum up what's still left to do from NT19:

We have to make an article for Lola. She scales to Aiwass, obviously, but what do we do with it, considering it's both obvious for the story and was also directly stated that Aiwass is not close to full power, even in space? (Otherwise Aleister would have tried using it against the Magic Gods instead of relying in nerf + AAA, and he wouldn't need his convoluted plan and prep to destroy all phases if Aiwass could just do that whenever) Do we give it another key for its regular appearances that Lola scales to (which would be "at least 5-B" for stomping IT) and put its 2-A rating in a "Full Power" key?

Aleister should get a rating for his/her Big Bang Bomb (separate from his regular attacks, given that Spiritual Tripping's power depends on what kind of weapon he makes) + some new abilities and the gravity manipulation from NT18.

Aiwass gets a couple of abilities.

There's also a new attack for Accelerator, Fran's second key and the Mimetic Predator page; but those are minor stuff.
 
Alister could beat the magic gods on his own if he somehow make them believe he's around their strength but Crowley being Crowley he though of many ways to take them down, too many keikaku layers as always

Aiwass in his weakened status was comparable to othins
 
The only thing comparing them that I can recall is that both crushed IT, but that's just a Planet level feat.
 
Also, do we have a hamazura profile? Because there are several quotes that put him with aneris powersuit as 7-B in this volume.

Also Lazy brought up the point i was pondering about. I would like to make a mass revision for toaru if you could give me the time to do so. But yeah aiwass and corozon are obviously not full power and need to separate keys.

Im also thinking, whats your guys' thoughts on Aiwass and Corozon being at least 2-a, considering they are seemingly being touted above the magic gods as "higher beings" and they seem to be the end game for the series. Probably.

With their Avatar forms id say Aiwass and Coronzon are At least 5-B likely far higher but we can discuss this at length in the revision thread

Also. That last chapter where Aleister shit talked Corozon. Dam. Payback for last volume.

EDIT: That quote about Aiwass being made to overpower the true magic gods was a work in progress, iirc
 
Yep, Hamazura Shiage.

As for your suggestion for Aiwass and Coronzon, I honestly don't know. I thought the series might have enough evidence for magic gods having a higher tier and was immediately shot down when I recently brought it up, so I won't get into discussions of higher tiers.
 
When I revised the Magic Gods pages a short while back I also brought up a statement of Othinus about how a Magic God should have control of every dimension, how the World is 11th dimensional and the magic gods can warp or destroy it, etc...

Since I was wrong about that possibly being enough evidence for an upgrade, its obvious I don't understand the higher tiers as well as I'd like, so I don't know if Aiwass and Coronzon being "At least 2-A" would be valid or not.
 
Wait, I missed that thread, could you please link it?

Personally I've long thought they were Tier 1 but I figured it would be too controversial. I was not aware of that quote of Othinus' quote either.

Afaik ToAru has never used the term dimensions in the sense of pocket dimensions like most other series do. Only spatial.
 
It would be this thread.

Given how rereading old OT novels has lead to some changes in the pages, I cannot be 100% sure, but I also can't think of a time the series did that. Closest thing I can think of would be the Virtual On crossover novel, which uses dimension and parallel world interchangeably.
 
I would of liked to have seen the admins actually address each quote you pasted because im not entirely sure they read each one. Especially Carissa's which is without a doubt spacial dimensions. Better move her to the god tier status, she has a attack ap >>>>> Magic gods. lol

I've seen a few tier 1's with less evidence than what was presented in that thread. I'm not sure what more proof they need. I'll probably bring it up in a massive revision likely sometime this week. I think I could of been the difference in that thread :(
 
I mean, the question of needing proof of the world's dimensions being geometric is silly, as you say they have been since Carissa casually makes dimensional cross-sections everytime she swings her sword, it's just that humans can only perceive the 3-D one. And Othinus quote cannot be refuted saying that she's talking about phases (literally the only other thing she could be talking about) since she mentions them separately in it. Oh well, maybe if we're lucky Aiwass and/or Coronzon will give us a clearer feat.
 
The more i looked at their responses the more it annoyed me. So i just went and did it https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1066470
 
The revisions was accepted, gotta say nice work there Aizen ~

We have to figure how to rate Touma nad Kamisato though
 
It's finally happened :')

Yeah i figured there was something i missed. What do you guys think about touma and kamisato?
 
ALRF suggest to leave them alone for now and i share his opinion as well, it's pain in the ass to rate them

On the other hand there few things to discuss :

1-Index may scale to this as well because she have the possibilities to become magic god now that even othinus is High 1-C index may scale

2-I have serious issue with Alister dura and speed, his Dura should scale to his AP with magic because he survives attack from High priest, High Priest blitz the **** outta him if he have peak human reaction speed so his speed should also scale if his claim to beat Magic god is true

Even if his body is human level in Dura and can be hurt with handgun and even fear falling from great height we should consider him the same case like accel barrier, Nothing show he can use the Road on himself but also nothing suggest against it, you may say this logic doesn't work but it would explain how he survive High priest attack burning him because this is implying he took the attack directly

3-Now that Carissa have Tier 1 attack what does that mean for her VS matches ?
 
I thought index was only universe level because gungnir destroys the world when thrown?

Aleister is hard to rate since hes not a normal 11-d character. Id leave his dura as unknown because it's conflicting.

About the rod: it would explain his conflicting dura but we need to wait and see

Carissa can still fight as usual
 
Is that the reason she is 3-A ? it seems ALRF scaled the world destroying thing as High 1-C because they **** everything including the 11-D, The reason for her 3-A rating is that she have the possibilities to become magic god, if that isn't the right justification for her rating we should remove it

Okay gonna ignore Crowley for now because he's ass like touma to rate

Yeah i did read more about her spell now
 
>ALRF suggest to leave them alone for now and i share his opinion as well, it's pain in the ass to rate them

Excuse me but what?
 
You mentioned me when i didn't even participate in the revision o_O

>Is that the reason she is 3-A ? it seems ALRF scaled the world destroying thing as High 1-C because they **** everything including the 11-D...

>ALRF

Wah?
 
^Lol i am just wanking here don't take it seriously ~

I indeed mistook your name for lazy hunter, but hey ! that shows how much i love you because you are always in my mind ~
 
Also nice work on the renders for Aleister @Lazy, the only one who needs a render now is Aiwass. I've seen renders of him on the internet but with different backgrounds and such.
 
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