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Toaru Majutsu no Index Discussion Thread 3

For Index, the 3-A rating came from her version of Gungnir, not the potential of being a Magic God, so that should be removed. It would be like listing "has the potential to be a Level 5" for Awaki or a hypothetical Takitsubou page. Her Gungnir is explicitly weaker than the one Othinus had, so I don't know if it should scale. She hasn't even shown the ability to use it on her own anyway, so for now it's as ridiculous as having the Liquid Proof Railgun listed for Mikoto. In fact, it shouldn't be in Index's page at all, given that

1: It's not used in John's Pen Mode as claimed in the page

2: The spear is not real and has no power, the technique depended on Birdway drawing the phenomenon of destruction from Othinus or Touma's heads when she launched it to grant it that power. Think of it as being similar to Aleister's Spiriritual Tripping but requiring the target to have seen the real thing before. It should be useless against anyone but those two.

For Aleister, I've already stated that I heavily disagree with scaling his speed and durability to the magic gods in any way, shape or form.

For Carissa, nothing really changes. She gets veery few matches overall, and basically all against other characters with dimensional/spatial slashing, which we know can block her slashes, at least for a while, from how Curtana Second managed to clash against it, even if suffering some damage.
 
Thats what i thought regarding index.

I think listing significant combo attacks is fine as we note the conditions in which its used. Not like anyones gunna wank it to oblivion here anyway. Naruto and Sasukes ap is from a shared ap feat, not quite the same but you get the idea

Best we could so for Aleister would be his reactions could likely be scaled to blitzing fiammas hr with a attack and beating him in a fight but hes clearly not immeasurable speed within the universe. He can move outside the universe and such yes but not within.

Also you wouldn't believe it but the second you posted that someone did make a carissa thread . Lmao. Looks like someone was paying attention to the recent changes
 
The difference between Little Gungnir and Liquid Proof Railgun is while the second could be in theory replicated whenever Misaki and Mikoto want as it only uses one of Mikoto's regular coins, Index and Birdway's Gungnir required the opponent to have seen what Othinus' Gungnir really does, so it would be useless against basically anyone else but Othinus and Touma, mayve the magic gods and Aleister, so I don't see a point to it being listed.

Against Natsu? Isn't that a stomp for Carissa? He won't even know what hit him, considering she can project the slice up to 20 meters, so Natsu gets cut in half by an invisible attack when he thinks Carissa has missed her slash by a mile. And Jesus, doesn't he have enough losses? I haven't seen a character with that many.
 
I dont mind getting rid of it in that case. Didn't remember that little detail.

Natsu is the Yamcha of VsB so.. everyone fights him ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»

Atleast he is stronger in physical ap and dura so maybe it's a decisive fight
 
I see you guys upgraded Magic Gods to Tier 1. Personally I would have prefered "likely", but I suppose I won't complain. ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»

I will complain regarding Carissa, though.

Listing Carissa as Tier 1 would imply that Kanzaki with Yuisen blocked a tier 1 attack, which doesn't really make sense. It also really doesn't make sense power wise.

Ultimately the All Dimensions Severing Spell is a special type of hax of the rare category that is capable of theoretically even harming tier 1 beings. Just like for example spacetime cutting it should be listed as just hax on the profile and not AP, in my opinion.
 
In Carissa's case there is absolutely no problem.

In case of full blown 1-C characters, with durability, reality warping and everything, also not really a problem, though those threads rarely get a conclusion if they aren't unbalanced, in my experience.
 
Well sorry, but it is how it is by our VsB ap standards. Listing it as hax rather than ap is blatantly going against that and not accurate.

Its a 11-D strike and thats it.
 
I also think it should count as AP, and Kanzaki's Yuisen simply has the hax resistance to block it, much like the Maiden's Durandal and Gabriel can block the shards of Curtana Second that slice space.
 
It's more that her Durability Negation is that high. Remember, it's just a sword slice so someone with Mid/High-Mid regen and above can survive it.

Side-note, due to the Index match I skimmed over her two fights in OT, especifically against Stiyl, looking for the quote of the swords of Freyr "suffocating the enemy" even though it seems like a hyperbole for the level of power. So, does anyone have the quote for that, because I think I've done it again and found an unsourced ability.
 
@Aizen: I don't know which standard you are referencing here. It's been ages that I last have seen hax affecting higher dimensional characters debated.

It is not an 11-D strike at all, given that that would imply a strike with an 11-D object.

It is a technique that slices dimensions and as such should be treated as hax just like minor spacetime manipulating abilities, are seen as hax, not 4-D AP.


@LazyHunter:

and Kanzaki's Yuisen simply has the hax resistance to block it
But that's the point. Hax resistance can only be the explanation, if it is durability negation that can affect even 11-D beings, not brute AP on tier 1 level. Resistance to AP is what is called durability essentially.

It shouldn't be listed as High Complex Multiverse level AP if it doesn't have that amount of raw power behind it, but as something like "The All Dimensions Severing Spell can negate durability up to High Complex Multiverse level" or similar.


For the sword thing I can't find a quote either.
 
If you can affect tier 1 characters with a slash you are Tier 1.

Kanzaki just has good spatial manipulation resistance. Just by being able to have the attack exist/affect in higher dimensions gives you that tier
 
LordAizenSama said:
If you can affect tier 1 characters with a slash you are Tier 1.
Click to expand...
I don't agree. If it were a normal sword slash maybe, but not if it is hax from a character with otherwise low level power.

We consider small scale spacetime abilities as hax, even if they can affect 4-D portions of spacetime. This is the same kind of small scale spacetime ability just to a higher extent.
 
Outside of it, at least.

On another note about the magic gods. Did they get confirmed to have been returned (and stuck) in the real world again? Or did Aloliester stomp Coronzon and gods back to WR earth
 
Nephthys and Niang-Niang should be stuck in the real world since the crack Coronzon made sealed up behind them. Should we add that to Coronzon, by the way?
 
The Hidden World is not above or outside the world (not multiverse, phases are not universes). Everything we see in the series, even the separate timeline World Rejecter banishes people to is inside the same "world". The Hidden World is another phase, if more secure and harder to locate and affect than the others. So, no, they aren't above High 1-C.
 
It is true that the hidden world is actually outside of to aru's 11 dimensions, though.

But simply being outside of something isn't indicative of tier. Even to aru's teleporters can move through higher dimensional space, but that doesn't mean anything in regards to power.

Being outside of something is just a matter of position and usually freedom of movement, but doesn't need one to be powerful at all. A person with tier 10 AP could move outside of 11 dimensions and it would not require higher power.
 
I believe it is also listed in the notes of the Tiering system that simply being outside dimensions doesn't = 1-A

@Lazy what power would you list for Lola breaking out of the WR earth?
 
I can't find something that fits 100%. What would "travelling between two parallel timelines by ripping a hole in spacetime" be?
 
It aren't really two timelines. WR world is part of the same timeline as to arus, just shifted in time.

It is basically a very limited version of time travel (only being able to go back or forwards an instant in time to shift to or from the WR world), I think.

Not really sure how to put it for the profile either, though.
 
Still better than the people who say that it was a backdoor Kihara installed on Accel's brain, or the idiots who whine that Accelerator should have easily stopped the counter by modifying his reflection settings (when Accelerator explicitly tries doing that in the novel only for Amata to predict the changes and adjust to them in the fly).

That headcanon, though. Entire explanation falls apart if you try to think about it for more than five seconds.
 
Pretty simple technique but hard to try. Kihara can use that technique efortlessly because he knew everything about accel, personality, habit, etc. And yeah, the only method to counter this kihara punch is modifying accel reflection setting. But unfortunately, kihara knew that accel modifying his reflection setting and adjust his punch to counter the new setting of reflection
 
Hm. We should change Aleisters bilocation to something more fitting, since we know he can appear in more than two places at once, Multilocation?
 
Welp, that happened. Maybe we should add a note to Accelerator's page advising people to not put exclusively physical fighters around his level of strength against him.
 
I thought it was SUPER obvious to everyone. I don't know if we need note, imo.

That thread was just a freak abomination. 99% of the time that doesn't happen.
 
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