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Also interesting to note every Aleister has access to a blasting rod it seems
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Toaru Majutsu no Index Discussion Thread 3
- Thread starter LazyHunter
- Start date
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As of now Corozon is now stuck in the alternate dimension with Nephthys and the other Magic gods. Through some weird happenings. Need to reread it.
EDIT: That was Corozon landing in the alternate reality which caused the explosion
EDIT: That was Corozon landing in the alternate reality which caused the explosion
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Aiwass kind of just messed around and "lost" on purpose. Corozon Was like HAHAHAHAHAH I WON!
Then realised she had been trolled and BFR'D to that Kamisato realm
Then realised she had been trolled and BFR'D to that Kamisato realm
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They are portrayed equal to eachother so yeah they scale.
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Yeah that sums it up
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- #51
About the Big Bang thing, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that kind of thing usually rated as 3-A? Because if so, even if the narration says it's his trump card against the Magic Gods (wasn't that Aiwass?) that means that either the Magic Gods have crap Durability or that Kamachi is underestimating how powerful he made the magic gods, just like he believes he made Saints and angels "just" supersonic.
For Coronzon, we should probably wait to see how it fares against other characters like the depowered Magic Gods before making a page. The Aiwass we have had in the series so far is clearly not at full power like ZERO7772 said (No avatar, Crowley still needs prep to use Aiwass to destroy all phases) so we don't know how strong this Aiwass and Coronzon are besides far stronger than IT.
For Coronzon, we should probably wait to see how it fares against other characters like the depowered Magic Gods before making a page. The Aiwass we have had in the series so far is clearly not at full power like ZERO7772 said (No avatar, Crowley still needs prep to use Aiwass to destroy all phases) so we don't know how strong this Aiwass and Coronzon are besides far stronger than IT.
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Dunno we shouldn't count on Alister's trump cards anymore, i mean he can totally beat them on his own if condition are met he don't need Aiwass, The fact his spell can kill all the magic gods at once make it 2-A
Kamachi most likely don't realize how OP he made some characters, it's same case with DB Verse
Kamachi most likely don't realize how OP he made some characters, it's same case with DB Verse
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- #54
It's not a fact, the narration only said that he created the attack to take on the Magic Gods at the same time. It never said anything about automatically killing them. And besides, we are already assuming their Durability as it is.
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- #56
I won't discuss the Majins durability because i have absolutely no idea how we should rate it
That's what I meant, we have a problem since the Magic God's Durbality is already assumed, so it's entirely possible 10xBig Bang would be enough to kill them, just as Tsuchimikado shootting Aleister with a regular handgun actually harmed him.
ED: On a related note, that explosion at the end might be a durability feat for the nerfed magic gods,
That's what I meant, we have a problem since the Magic God's Durbality is already assumed, so it's entirely possible 10xBig Bang would be enough to kill them, just as Tsuchimikado shootting Aleister with a regular handgun actually harmed him.
ED: On a related note, that explosion at the end might be a durability feat for the nerfed magic gods,
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Glass canon in Toaru are very common so i am not taking the possibility of them being only universe level, but then again how can you kill them with universe attack if the whole universe can't even hold their mere presence
if we assume the the durability of the magic gods we have no choice but to assume Alister to be "low 2-C likely 2-A "scaling from the magic gods
" funny he is back to his original rating "
if we assume the the durability of the magic gods we have no choice but to assume Alister to be "low 2-C likely 2-A "scaling from the magic gods
" funny he is back to his original rating "
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- #58
"Blasting Rod. In other words, that power will be multiplied tenfold from my opponent's point of view."
She finally exceeded the limits of the existing universe.
I think Kamachi thought multiplying the Big Bang for 10 would be enough "surpassing the universe".
I mean, this Big Bang AP would be only with the Big Bang Bomb attack. The power of the Spiritual Tripping depends on what illusory weapon he makes.
She finally exceeded the limits of the existing universe.
I think Kamachi thought multiplying the Big Bang for 10 would be enough "surpassing the universe".
I mean, this Big Bang AP would be only with the Big Bang Bomb attack. The power of the Spiritual Tripping depends on what illusory weapon he makes.
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- #60
3-A for Big Bang Bomb is okay with me. There's also a few minor abilities to add: the gamma knife, the ability to use up possibilites to boost up his magic and limited Gravity Manipulation that we forgot to add from NT18.
Shame we didn't get a clear magical AP feat for Mina.
True Gremlin Magic Gods were just that, a tool Kamachi used to introduce Kakeru's arc and reafirm Aleister's position as one of the series key character and manipulator while baiting people into thinking they would be the next big antagonist.
Shame we didn't get a clear magical AP feat for Mina.
True Gremlin Magic Gods were just that, a tool Kamachi used to introduce Kakeru's arc and reafirm Aleister's position as one of the series key character and manipulator while baiting people into thinking they would be the next big antagonist.
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>, the ability to use up possibilites to boost up his magic
I must missed that, how does this magic work ?
Having casual tier 2 villains when you're main cast range between tier 8 and 6 isn't good idea at all, othinus was fine and all but the magic gods felt really out of the place, the got nerfed and BTFO by Crowley before they had the chance to do anything
I must missed that, how does this magic work ?
Having casual tier 2 villains when you're main cast range between tier 8 and 6 isn't good idea at all, othinus was fine and all but the magic gods felt really out of the place, the got nerfed and BTFO by Crowley before they had the chance to do anything
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- #62
In the Prologue Aleister sends the Windowless Building into space and mentions:
"Good. Including the magic recoil absorption, using up about 5 Crowleys can do about that much. Everything is so easy."
That might be how the problem of so many Crowleys running around could get solved, by using them in some large-scale magic.
That's the point, they were never supposed to do anything while they were at that level. Kamachi played with people's expectations of "last big bad was a magic god, so it makes sense the next big bads are even stronger" to build up on Aleister and Kakeru.
"Good. Including the magic recoil absorption, using up about 5 Crowleys can do about that much. Everything is so easy."
That might be how the problem of so many Crowleys running around could get solved, by using them in some large-scale magic.
That's the point, they were never supposed to do anything while they were at that level. Kamachi played with people's expectations of "last big bad was a magic god, so it makes sense the next big bads are even stronger" to build up on Aleister and Kakeru.
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A Big Bang can be judged Low 2-C or 3-A as far as I am aware.
I think for Gurren Lagann Big Bangs are counted as Low 2-C for example.
So I think we can say that it makes most sense for Aleisters 10xBig Bang to be 2-C, meaning the "likely 2-A" durability of the Magic Gods should go so that they have "At least Low 2-C" durability.
I think for Gurren Lagann Big Bangs are counted as Low 2-C for example.
So I think we can say that it makes most sense for Aleisters 10xBig Bang to be 2-C, meaning the "likely 2-A" durability of the Magic Gods should go so that they have "At least Low 2-C" durability.
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- #65
There's only a single timeline which wasn't affected at all by the attack and the attack is just the energy of the Big Bang x 10. So 3-A is the most likely.
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The attack was spiritual tripping. It could have been tier 1 and wouldn't have affected anything besides the target.
It also is noted "She finally exceeded the limits of the existing universe." indicating more than universal power and the note "That big bang…well, it was technically ten times that, but it created a great many things. Radiation was one of those and it is a powerful medicine that can be used for good or bad." hints that the big bang technically created stuff, albeit due to the attack being spiritual tripping of course that didn't really happen.
And as said given that it is supposed to be able to one shot all magic gods 2-C makes more sense than 3-A here IMO.
It also is noted "She finally exceeded the limits of the existing universe." indicating more than universal power and the note "That big bang…well, it was technically ten times that, but it created a great many things. Radiation was one of those and it is a powerful medicine that can be used for good or bad." hints that the big bang technically created stuff, albeit due to the attack being spiritual tripping of course that didn't really happen.
And as said given that it is supposed to be able to one shot all magic gods 2-C makes more sense than 3-A here IMO.
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- #68
It also is noted "She finally exceeded the limits of the existing universe." indicating more than universal power
That line is refering to the fact she used Blasting Rod to boost the attack. 10x 3-A would still be 3-A, so it proves nothing.
I fail to see how talking about radiation and its relation with the Big Bang means that his bomb was above 3-A.
And as said given that it is supposed to be able to one shot all magic gods 2-C makes more sense than 3-A here IMO.
That's just an assumption never said in the novel, a trump card to take on x character/s does not necessarily equal oneshoting x character/s.
To sum up: the Big Bang Bomb should obviously be rated as however Big Bangs are rated, either 3-A or Low 2-C. The Magic Gods are irrelevant to this.
And about Blasting Rod making it 2-C, I've been told a few times that no matter how casual a Low 2-C is they cannot be made 2-C unless they affect 2 universes at once, which is why characters like Othinus who can easily warp the entire universe hundreds of millions of times are considered inferior to someone who created two universes once. I would assume multipliers like Blasting Rod would also not change that.
About Mina: No way, especially when she couldn't react to the leaf bullets earlier that triggered her automatic defenses.
That line is refering to the fact she used Blasting Rod to boost the attack. 10x 3-A would still be 3-A, so it proves nothing.
I fail to see how talking about radiation and its relation with the Big Bang means that his bomb was above 3-A.
And as said given that it is supposed to be able to one shot all magic gods 2-C makes more sense than 3-A here IMO.
That's just an assumption never said in the novel, a trump card to take on x character/s does not necessarily equal oneshoting x character/s.
To sum up: the Big Bang Bomb should obviously be rated as however Big Bangs are rated, either 3-A or Low 2-C. The Magic Gods are irrelevant to this.
And about Blasting Rod making it 2-C, I've been told a few times that no matter how casual a Low 2-C is they cannot be made 2-C unless they affect 2 universes at once, which is why characters like Othinus who can easily warp the entire universe hundreds of millions of times are considered inferior to someone who created two universes once. I would assume multipliers like Blasting Rod would also not change that.
About Mina: No way, especially when she couldn't react to the leaf bullets earlier that triggered her automatic defenses.
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Stupid question.i understand why mina can punch through accel reflection by outsmarted accel calculation. But how exactly it work? Accel reflection can completly deflect supernatural being like angel of science, fuze=kazakiri. even can defend against gabriel wings. So how mina punch work does she use unknown laws or vector or something?
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- #71
Her calculation abilities allow her to make vectors that Accelerator's calculations cannot keep up with.
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So just like kakine dark matter but higher or aiwass wings
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So mina punch can somewhat a bit stronger than fuze=kazakiri wing or gabriel because accel reflection can work against these being although in gabriel case didn't completely work
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I mean both kazakiri and gabriel are angel so they are higher being and can't be call normal. But accelerator reflection still work against these angel so in other hand accel still can calculate their attack into his reflection although for gabriel still imperfect. So i think mina fist is more complex than kazakiri or gabriel because it completly bypass reflection
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- #77
When I say that Accelerator calculations couldn't keep up I don't mean that they didn't understand the vectors like with Telesma or Aiwass. As ZERO7772 said, getting through Accelerator's reflection is not a matter of strength.
Kakine used loopholes in the reflection, Aiwass/Telesma weren't understood at all by Accelerator due to their wildly different rules. Meanwhile Mina was using a completely normal physical attack with her punch but was doing something to her vectors with her own calculations so that Accelerator couldn't reflect them.
Kakine used loopholes in the reflection, Aiwass/Telesma weren't understood at all by Accelerator due to their wildly different rules. Meanwhile Mina was using a completely normal physical attack with her punch but was doing something to her vectors with her own calculations so that Accelerator couldn't reflect them.
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Ah oke i understand. one more question. We know that accel reflection have a weakness. But in sheer strenght, is there any limit for accel reflection? For example the novel said that the reflection can defend against nuclear attack, but can the reflection against something stronger than nuclear attack
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- #79
He has aleady reflected stronger stuff than that (Gabriel and Kazakiri's attacks). As for the limit: In-universe so far there's no apparent limit in strength. For vs battles Accelerator's reflection, like other NLFs, is limited to its biggest feat.
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his biggest attack that accel tanked is thelesma attack by fiamma. but that without his shield? can his vector shield tanked that massive attack even its not a thelesma attack
