Toaru Discussion thread New Fourms #1

[FantaRin_The_First]

No, but they would disintegrate everything down to the quantum level.


¯\(ツ)/¯
Aleister admitted that he couldn't kill him the regular way IIRC and the story proceeded based on that reasoning. And since it's a technique that Aleister can pull out whenever... Like, if this were durability scaling...


Aleister could only summon Coronzon due to Kingsford's help, so it would make sense that Mut credits her. And most see her as the more dangerous of the two anyway...

And I'm not sure Aleister summoning Coronzon has no recoil? Like, the recoil from Aleister's magic comes from him containing the sparks. For anyone else it would have no recoil. (Weirdly enough, this is also a callback to chapter 1, so I'm not sure whether it doesn't refer to an earlier Aleister. Could also refer to his mental state seeing how he kinda is in the gutter right now. We're kinda low on information)

Ain't that a common thing for toaru, lacking info, kek. That, and things showing up and never appearing again.

 

[XDragnoir]

isn't this arbitrary to give a person that high level regen based solely on something purely hypothetical and not even vaguely implied in the novels?

It's not vaguely implied, you just sent the quotes where it is clear that Aleister had no way to deal with Mathers, the only explanation for that is regen enough to survive anything, as we know Dura and Resistances aren't enough here.

Aleister could only summon Coronzon due to Kingsford's help, so it would make sense that Mut credits her. And most see her as the more dangerous of the two anyway...

I mean, sure, that doesn't change the fact that Mut took the attack from Crowleyzon without any major damage.

Like, only 3 of the idk how many 5Bs we have actually have anything stated directly to be planet level.

Fiamma was directly stated to be able to destroy the planet, Aiwass was directly stated to have power to destroy the world on his fingers and Othinus was stated to have the power to destroy 1-2 planets with her Crossbow.

From these 3, 2 don't scale to physicals and everyone is only 5B cause IT blocked Fiamma's attack.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

It's not vaguely implied, you just sent the quotes where it is clear that Aleister had no way to deal with Mathers, the only explanation for that is regen enough to survive anything, as we know Dura and Resistances aren't enough here.

And the text I sent didn't imply that - it only stated spec-wise, Mathers is completely superior to Aleister no matter what the later tried and that his golden army could - and did - deal with all of the hazards. Nothing suggest or hints that could 100% regen from BBB, and again, it hadn't been mentioned past NT19. So I am simply advocating the removal of High Regen since we never have directly stated, have it seen on-screen, and the best regen feat we've for Mathers is regening his arm, which is just low-mid (and only smth that happened because Accelerator amped the laser after Mathers no-sold it)

I mean, sure, that doesn't change the fact that Mut took the attack from Crowleyzon without any major damage.

Like, only 3 of the idk how many 5Bs we have actually have anything stated directly to be planet level.

Fiamma was directly stated to be able to destroy the planet, Aiwass was directly stated to have power to destroy the world on his fingers and Othinus was stated to have the power to destroy 1-2 planets with her Crossbow.

From these 3, 2 don't scale to physicals and everyone is only 5B cause IT blocked Fiamma's attack.

Yep, that's the issue.

And then we have CRC who is stated to be comparable to Kingsford, who is superior to Anna and made Aiwass a joke with as little effort as possible, and Aleister himself stating that he has no idea if he can even help... which makes some sense since Coronzon (and her body) is stated to be equal to Aiwass and CRC is comparable to a person who casually beat the person who made Aiwass into a chair (and aiwass himself) with no effort but kamachi really has to fricking stop with the new characters who can overpower previous characters.

 

[Axscell]

kamachi really has to fricking stop with the new characters who can overpower previous characters.

Kamachi rn thinking about making Jesus show up and casually beat CRC in the next volume.

 

[XDragnoir]

And the text I sent didn't imply that - it only stated spec-wise, Mathers is completely superior to Aleister no matter what the later tried and that his golden army could - and did - deal with all of the hazards. Nothing suggest or hints that could 100% regen from BBB, and again, it hadn't been mentioned past NT19. So I am simply advocating the removal of High Regen since we never have directly stated, have it seen on-screen, and the best regen feat we've for Mathers is regening his arm, which is just low-mid (and only smth that happened because Accelerator amped the laser after Mathers no-sold it)

Honestly, I don't really care about it.

Yep, that's the issue.

And then we have CRC who is stated to be comparable to Kingsford, who is superior to Anna and made Aiwass a joke with as little effort as possible, and Aleister himself stating that he has no idea if he can even help... which makes some sense since Coronzon (and her body) is stated to be equal to Aiwass and CRC is comparable to a person who casually beat the person who made Aiwass into a chair (and aiwass himself) with no effort but kamachi really has to fricking stop with the new characters who can overpower previous characters.

Yeah.

Also, now that it has been some time since the end of the translations.

Do y'all think Alice will come back or Kamachi just killed an important character that has appeared in more than 1 Vol. for once?

 

[Axscell]

Do y'all think Alice will come back or Kamachi just killed an important character that has appeared in more than 1 Vol. for once?

Personally, I'm fully expecting her to come back tbh, and I suspect it's going to have something to do with her whole inner Alice thing. I mean, there has to be more to that transformation, right?

 

[Zensum]

Do y'all think Alice will come back or Kamachi just killed an important character that has appeared in more than 1 Vol. for once?

Based on everything about her from GT5 she's probably still alive. The Picture Book Girl seems to act as something similar to an M-body for B (Backstage) Alice.

 

[Churronzon]

Aiwass was directly stated to have power to destroy the world on his fingers

Does he have such a statement without a ceremony performed by Aleister to destroy all phases?

From these 3, 2 don't scale to physicals and everyone is only 5B cause IT blocked Fiamma's attack.

IT has unknown durability for blocking Fiamma's attack : p

 

[XDragnoir]

Does he have such a statement without a ceremony performed by Aleister to destroy all phases?

Yeah, it was in OT (idk if OT19 or when he helped Kazakiri in WW3)

IT has unknown durability for blocking Fiamma's attack : p

Yeah, cause the profile is wrong.

 

[XDragnoir]

That was Aiwass. Even if humanity was to go extinct and the world was to disappear, Aiwass’s expression would not change.
Which was more terrifying, someone who piled subtle plan on top of subtle plan to carry out a large plan or someone who held the power to destroy the world with a single fingertip but only acted on a whim or out of interest?
“I suppose I will go,” said Kazakiri after thinking for a while. “But on one condition.”
“Am I really the one you should be telling that to? I am not the one who has come up with this overblown plan.”
“Please do not touch my friends.”
“As long as they do not prove to be interesting, I won’t.”
“…If you do, I will become your enemy even if it means mutual destruction.”
“You are much too naïve if you think you can threaten me,” said Aiwass with a slight smile. “That kind of statement could very well spark my interest.”

OT20

 

[Excellence616]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/kakines-conceptual-dark-matter.154912/

 

[XDragnoir]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/kakines-conceptual-dark-matter.154912/

For real? Bruh

@DontTalkDT I am leaving that one to you.

Of all abilities that could have something conceptual about them (from Othinus somewhat messing with Touma's concept to Alice's Bridge Building or even Accel's vector hax) we've got thread about Kakine being conceptual?

 

[Aseka]

For real? Bruh

@DontTalkDT I am leaving that one to you.

Of all abilities that could have something conceptual about them (from Othinus somewhat messing with Touma's concept to Alice's Bridge Building or even Accel's vector hax) we've got thread about Kakine being conceptual?

What's in your mind about this thread? Could you give input there?

 

[Churronzon]

Let's give Touma and Kamisato's right hands limited type 2 abstract existence instead. :d

“Yes, although it would be wrong to think of Imagine Breaker in the same way as Academy
City’s powers.” Nephthys sounded somewhat exasperated. “Have you ever heard that
Imagine Breaker is a gathering of the dreams held by all of those who use magic? They
would love to change the world as they see fit, but they’re afraid of messing everything up
in the process. So they wanted a clear restoration point or reference point they could use
to restore everything if needed. The meter, the kilogram, degrees Celsius, the periodic
table, and more. Your right hand functions as an unchanging standard for all units.”

It was a confusing way of putting it, but he was pretty sure Ollerus had said something
similar.
Imagine Breaker was a safety that had gathered the dreams of all magicians.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 14 Chapter 1 Part 1

“We did not gain these powers because we chose them.”
“...”
“They came from the dreams of all magicians. Or to be more specific, the Magic Gods who
individually make up a large percentage of that power. Their selfish desires created these
strange powers and placed them in our right hands. And that power twists the actions of
the girls around us, creating this ridiculous harem army. Like with Patricia, even those
who have some other important person are forcibly dragged into it until they
unwaveringly obey that single path. ...Goddammit!!”

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 14 Chapter 3 Part 4

I think you mighta suggested this some time ago, but I didn't know what the criteria for it was

 

[Aseka]

Could Clonoth at least qualified for possibly Fate Manipulation?

The invisible third tree.

The large data entity constructed by the brains of the military clones linked by EM waves.

“This is a tree made by human hands – a new tree not found in any legends or myths! It is still a small sapling, but this new mystic power does not rely on the hand of god and instead provides possibilities controlled by human hands. The artificial tree of Clonoth carries no good or evil!! I shall become the guide of this young tree. Rejection of the Abyss, leave us as I become one with my chosen master and cross that line. We shall arrive beyond Keter! We need not fear the unknown territory that is no more than a series of zeroes!!”

 

[Churronzon]

Isn't that quote just talking about law manipulation, as is new laws for humanity
If you want ideas for revisions, here's a few. not gonna format it

---

Spoiler: stuff

Kakine speed of light attack speed for diffracting light and turning it into an attack.
Almighty Thor planetary in range for being able to chase Othinus across the planet
MGs- power bestowal for allowing Kamisato to breathe in space and such?
Fiamma and Mugino's later keys need the words, "all prior". Mugino only has prosthetics as abilities in her third key and nothing else.
Salome's iron sand attacks were invisible.
Rensa needs immeasurable lifting strength in Accel's key
Infinite attack speed for Fiamma?
Massively hypersonic+ attack speed for Last Order as a level 3 esper?
Accel unknown invisible energy projection for black wings
Aiwass self-sustenance
Marian NPI and/or space manip for cutting into phases/space
Nephthys' first key needs water and vibration manipulation
P sure some Magic Gods' phase manip is lacking abilities that other MGs have. Idk how that happened. For example, Forgotten God has death manipulation but others don't and Nephthys doesn't have creation.
Chimera only has soul manipulation, but not biological manip.
Nuada's bugs needs lifeforce absorption.
High Priest Fusionism - fused with a comet
Qliphah body weaponry - her needle stingers or w/e they are
Coronzon type 2 immortality? - can keep existing without a soul?
Coronzon shapeshifting

“Well, um, I was just surprised to find a demon doesn’t have wings or a tail.”

“I can add those symbols when I need them, but now is not the time. What good is
spreading my wings when I do not need to fly?”

Dimensional Travel for Aiwass? - Moved Lilith's soul to a protected phase.

Mathers light manipulation

A horrifying white beam of light blasted forward from Mathers’s hand.

P sure Touma resists Agitate Halation, but I don't remember.

I don't think this needs a CRT, but Mugino's beams cauterize wounds.

Aleister dimensional manipulation for creating hyperbolic space?

Accelerator, Kakine, and Rensa - Danmaku with hundreds of wings

White wings made of Dark Matter grew from her back and attacked everything behind
her. The wings changed into hundreds of stakes. If they struck a human body, they
would tear it to pieces and transform it into a formless sticky liquid.

Fiamma NPI for fixing and shaking the four elements which I believe correlate to the four worlds, but I'm not sure

Coronzon needs the following weaknesses: Demons can be weakened by cutting their telesma, Queen Britannia amplifies all spiritual items and can be exploited against her, using human magic taxes her, demons can't exist in the surface world without bodies, Ceremony can be interrupted by blocking the signal transmitting the hijacking of the Scottish system through ley lines —

Fraulein - transformation once she achieves eclosion.

Mathers resistance to Accelerator's dura negation of blood vessels?

I don't remember the circumstances of the following quote, but I guess Yuiitsu needs limited creation of some kind.

Kihara Yuiitsu had created “something like a soul” from the four classic elements and
placed them in a flesh container known as a reduced life form.

Aleister aura - murderous intent miasma

“This monster won’t die so easily. We’ll be the ones in trouble.”
The rabbit-ear antennae girl felt a definite chill in her spine.
She did not know what Tsuchimikado was talking about, but her fear and confusion was
not directed at him.
It was at the supposedly lifeless and unmoving corpse.
However, she sensed some kind of invisible miasma escaping the entire body.
It was murderous intent.

Touma's dragons have selective invisibility and selective intangibility

Othinus shapeshifting, animal taming(?)
Could once turn into a hawk, subdued a hawk as a fairy

“The head Norse god has an affinity for birds. I would use two raven familiars to gather
information around the world and I would transform myself into a hawk to inspect the
lower world.”
“You captured it and rode it around? I’ve never seen a real hawk up close before...”

I dont know what ability this is

She was using the obvious explosive blasts to make a mess of things and to
scatter a great storm of what she had called “magic power” in order to cancel out any
ability Magic God Niang-Niang had to search him out.

Qliphah Beheading coin - gives a resistance to fear and pain manip for a few seconds -

This spiritual item was a last resort. It would raise one’s concentration and cut off their
pain and fear for just a few seconds. It was a “gift of mercy” that allowed its user to choose
death without hesitation. It may have been more like portable anesthetic than the final
dagger used to put an unsaveable fellow soldier out of their misery.

Aleister additional NPI justification for attacking Qliphah's soul
Causality manipulation through magic or phase sparks

I don't remember the rest

---

Does anyone know what the hell this is

Coronzon put some thought into that one...but
does she have no fear at all? It was certainly an excellent Crowley killer, but to think she
tried to connect to your inner side.”
“?”
“Have you forgotten what happened to Rensa, the esper cyborg who readily hijacked the
#3 or the #5’s powers when ordered to by Yakumi Hisako as part of the Agitate Halation
Project? She was destroyed the instant she tried to read you. A similar self-destruction
could have happened here.”

• NT20 apparently

 

[Aseka]

Isn't that quote just talking about law manipulation, as is new laws for humanity

New laws, but exactly what?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Let's get this show on the road, folks.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/to-aru-majutsu-no-index-revision-part-1.155000/

 

[Doggo]

G1 Death Battle Fan Blogs

A dedicated team of nerds researching your favorite characters' weapons, armors and skills to see who would win in a fight. Follows (but not associated with) the indie webshow.

g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com

A fan prediction blog for the upcoming deathbattle with Misaka. Has some interesting calcs....

 

[Doggo]

G1 Death Battle Fan Blogs

A dedicated team of nerds researching your favorite characters' weapons, armors and skills to see who would win in a fight. Follows (but not associated with) the indie webshow.

g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com

A fan prediction blog for the upcoming deathbattle with Misaka. Has some interesting calcs....

So.... what do you guys think of FTL Toaru?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

So.... what do you guys think of FTL Toaru?

Eh. The speed calcs there were in the sub-rela to rela supporting calc range (with only one FTL calc). So a bit too much... for now, lol.

 

[Doggo]

Eh. The speed calcs there were in the sub-rela to rela supporting calc range (with only one FTL calc). So a bit too much... for now, lol.

City level and rela Touma sounds so wrong and good

 

[Aseka]

So.... what do you guys think of FTL Toaru?

Relativistic I'm not sure, but that FTL Kiyama Harumi sounds interesting.

 

[Doggo]

Character Analysis: Misaka Mikoto

In case you were wondering… Franchise Overview / Compositing Info: This is a verse that has a variety of spin-offs and adaptations. The or...

ulltraguy.blogspot.com

Ftl Toaru is oddly consistent. There is a feat of Touma physically tanking Misaka's lightning which damaged a bridge (the bridge scene on ot3)

 

[XDragnoir]

New laws, but exactly what?

You will have to ask Kamachi, that's one of the dozens of times he threw something around without explaining what it does in practice.

Aleister's Archetype Controller was qualified as Conceptual Manipulation, but which type that concept fall into? Is it type 3?

Yeah, type 3.

 

[Churronzon]

Can Magic Gods fly? or magicians in general

 

[XDragnoir]

Can Magic Gods fly? or magicians in general

Ehhhhh

Yes? Everyone knows both the flight spell and the anti-flight spell.

 

[XDragnoir]

Just read the latest Mental Out chapter, they confirmed the previous #1 was (is?) a Gemstone, makes sense due to the bizarre amount of things he can do with his power but I didn't expect a Gemstone to get a high rank.

 

[Churronzon]

[Toaru] Limited Type 2 Abstract Existences

Goal: Looking to add Limited type 2 abstract existence for Imagine Breaker, World Rejecter, and the Holy Right. It's limited since it only applies to their right hands. Imagine Breaker and World Rejecter are manifested from the dreams of all magicians (majority of which being Magic Gods). IB is...

vsbattles.com

 

[DontTalkDT]

Little intermediary project we all profit from long term.

 

[Churronzon]

Has anyone given any thought as for the mechanism that would allow life to re-emerge after the destruction of the Pure World, all the phases, and the Tree of Life?

 

[XDragnoir]

Has anyone given any thought as for the mechanism that would allow life to re-emerge after the destruction of the Pure World, all the phases, and the Tree of Life?

I gave, it's Item #7 in my list of things Kamachi didn't properly explain after bringing up once.

 

[Churronzon]

lol

 

[Doggo]

I gave, it's Item #7 in my list of things Kamachi didn't properly explain after bringing up once.

What are the rest?

 

[XDragnoir]

What are the rest?

I just said a random number, but like:

Intersection of six paths was brought up once by High Priest and never again, iirc.

How exactly does the hierarchy of souls work?

The Post-Mo Atthair life forms

The several fake gods that Marian summoned

Alongside that, the energies that are equivalent to Telesma but didn't even get a name for themselves (not even the demon energy which Coronzon is made of got a name)

Which also relates to wtf the Esper Wings are made of and how exactly do you achieve them

Wtf the Clonoth actually changed in practice

Why exactly are Accel and Kakine called as Power and Territory of God, respectively? (I get the meaning, but it always struck me as something that would have a direct meaning rather than just a symbolical title).

What changes, in practice, from one of the 4 Worlds to the others?

Are each of the Sephiras their own Phase or these are different things? Da'at at the very least is treated like a place, but how are they organized?

These are just examples I could remember and I didn't include things that are still a mystery (Touma's powers, Gunha's powers, etc) as that wouldn't be fair, but like, Kamachi is literally the guy who brings things up and refuses to elaborate, iirc there was a mention about Carissa and Curtana in general having access to some kind of transformation once and then it was never brought up again.

 

[GunTish]

Can this be used to upgrade Kinuhata's lifting strength to class 50?

With a dull metallic clunk, Kinuhata Saiai pulled something in from the shadows.

It was a 7m piece of metal weighing more than 25 tons. Kinuhata didn’t even bother with the excavator-style treads – she forcibly dragged it using the physical boost provided by Offense Armor.

- Item 2 Chapter 3 Part 3

 

[DontTalkDT]

​

Looks like someone started to translate (check captions) one of the original stories Kamachi wrote for IF, particularly the one about Thirteen Death. Hope he continues, could be interesting.

Can this be used to upgrade Kinuhata's lifting strength to class 50?

- Item 2 Chapter 3 Part 3

At a glance, yes. Although I haven't gotten to read that volume yet.

 

[Churronzon]

Looks like someone started to translate (check captions) one of the original stories Kamachi wrote for IF, particularly the one about Thirteen Death. Hope he continues, could be interesting.

Imaginary Fest spoilers

Spoiler

Only thing I know about the story is that Death 13 (or Thirteen Deaths, w/e) apparently specializes in killing Magic Gods and ends up being defeated by dead characters, Komaba, Frenda, Kihara Kagun, and one of the Misaka Sisters

Rock, paper, scissors moment ig

 

[XDragnoir]

Why does Kamachi have to throw the term "Magic Gods" everywhere nowadays? Did he just forget everything he wrote about them back when they were the focus?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Why does Kamachi have to throw the term "Magic Gods" everywhere nowadays? Did he just forget everything he wrote about them back when they were the focus?

At least this one seems to have a plausible idea behind it, instead of randomly being magic god level. In the sense that it is a magician developed specifically to counter them.

Imaginary Fest spoilers

Spoiler

Only thing I know about the story is that Death 13 (or Thirteen Deaths, w/e) apparently specializes in killing Magic Gods and ends up being defeated by dead characters, Komaba, Frenda, Kihara Kagun, and one of the Misaka Sisters

Rock, paper, scissors moment ig

Spoiler: Spoiler

ToAru wiki mentions some stuff about her ability, but not sure where they got the nullifying causes of death stuff from.
I guess since she specializes in death related stuff dead people may be some kind of weakness of her?