Toaru Discussion thread New Fourms #1

[Doggo]

I mean, that quote pretty much proves her damage is subatomic level even without Accel's help, so her lasers should double as AP and dura neg.

neato

 

[XDragnoir]

Regardless of the translation, the general idea is that half of the planet will be blown up. And... speaking of your idea, Noir... 1.2434848e32 joules (29.72 Zettatons) / 2000000000 (2 billion, as a low ball) = 6.217424e22 joules, or 14.86 Teratons of TNT... Afterwards, I got to divide the result by 30 mins or 1800 seconds; 6.217424e22 / 1800 = 3.45412444e19 joules, or 8.25 Gigatons of TnT.

... And we end up back in 6-C terrority, funny enough. And looking at the translations I got, the idea is that Accelerator did get hit by a lot of 'em as a result of them being danmaku and not just a singular one.

Any idea how to get the raws for this quote? Cause turning the world to ash is 62,48 Zettatons (via the reference for common feats page), so half the world would be slightly higher than that at 31,24 ZTs.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

No idea for now. Will have to search for the raws on my own time.

 

[Aseka]

I mean, that quote pretty much proves her damage is subatomic level even without Accel's help, so her lasers should double as AP and dura neg.

Not macro-quantum as she damaged Dark Matter?

 

[XDragnoir]

Not macro-quantum as she damaged Dark Matter?

...

I think Macro-quantum and subatomic are the same thing? I have seen people use it interchangeably, anyway, elementar particle level then.

 

[Doggo]

Hey there is a feat where Mugino blast some carbon materials (during st.gemain arc) and even crushes them with her metal hand. Could be cool to calc

 

[XDragnoir]

Hey there is a feat where Mugino blast some carbon materials (during st.gemain arc) and even crushes them with her metal hand. Could be cool to calc

I found these in St. Germain Arc, which seem really good, but i want to add her powers really aren't dura neg as Germain was able to block them, meh:

As she spoke, Mugino casually held out a hand horizontally.

A moment later, a brilliant beam of light surged outward and tore through the Dianoid wall that could withstand a direct hit from a battleship’s gun.

This was Academy City’s #4 Level 5, Meltdowner.

The ultra high firepower strike prevented electrons from taking on the properties of a wave or a particle and fired them as-is. The emergency exit and the surrounding wall were transformed into a perfectly circular hole two meters across. The edges were a scorching orange and there was no hint of what had happened to the materials that had previously formed the inside of the circle. The sight almost seemed to ignore the fundamental law of conservation of mass.

All at once, hundreds of spears rushed in. She swung her steel arms about, but that was nowhere near enough for this. Her flying kick had broken them, so they were likely not much of a threat when hit anywhere except for the very tip. However, they provided a fearsome impact if the tip scored a direct hit.

(If only…)

She gave up on clearing them all away.

She tried to protect herself with the metal arms, but the countless spears smashed, tore, and broke the Power Lifter to pieces.

(If only I could have gotten that information to someone else.)

The steel-smashing fangs would reach her soft flesh in just a few seconds more, but Hamazura Shiage would be able to escape in that time.

That was enough for her to remember the slight smile on her sweat-covered face.

However…

A brilliant beam of light shot in from the side and overturned the assumption of her death.

Every last spear was instantly vaporized.

 

[XDragnoir]

This is already canon, since it was mentioned in the general official timeline as taking place in a parallel world.

And in the interview Kamachi said that espers interact with parallel worlds (he also added there that espers are limited to one multiverse, while Tangram can manipulate all multiverses).



“A Certain Magical Virtual-On” is a parallel world, but chronologically, it seems to be around immediately after the end of “Gremlin Arc” (MTL)

Also, i was reading some cosmology related things to try and make a thread about it... but seriously, i don't think there is a way to reconcile Tangram's whole deal and Kamisato's "there aren't parallel worlds".

Like, i was even thinking about making a difference between parallel worlds and "rubber bands" to try a "both are true" approaching, but there is this statement which pretty much says parallel worlds and rubber bands are the same thing.

 

[MrOMG]

Also, i was reading some cosmology related things to try and make a thread about it... but seriously, i don't think there is a way to reconcile Tangram's whole deal and Kamisato's "there aren't parallel worlds".

Like, i was even thinking about making a difference between parallel worlds and "rubber bands" to try a "both are true" approaching, but there is this statement which pretty much says parallel worlds and rubber bands are the same thing.

It's really hard. Parallel worlds are not time lines. Parallel worlds are infinite time line possibilities, and time lines are time lines. I believe that at this point there is no exact answer as to how the universe works. As if to say all these are different theories, the first one is a theory from Kamisato(I have to read the PSP plot, because when I read it a little bit I found some pretty interesting things. For example a vacuum in the timeline due to the frequent distortion of the past and the future), and the other is an extension of this theory to explain such an existence as Tangram. So at this point I am waiting for new information, it is too early to tell which mathematical theory turned out to be true(or they both turned out to be wrong)

 

[XDragnoir]

It's really hard. Parallel worlds are not time lines. Parallel worlds are infinite time line possibilities, and time lines are time lines. I believe that at this point there is no exact answer as to how the universe works. As if to say all these are different theories, the first one is a theory from Kamisato(I have to read the PSP plot, because when I read it a little bit I found some pretty interesting things. For example a vacuum in the timeline due to the frequent distortion of the past and the future), and the other is an extension of this theory to explain such an existence as Tangram. So at this point I am waiting for new information, it is too early to tell which mathematical theory turned out to be true(or they both turned out to be wrong)

I mean, Nephtys pretty much agreed with everything Kamisato said, so i doubt it's actually a theory, especially the part about there not being infinite worlds, ehich Nephy was about to say herself.

 

[MrOMG]

I mean, Nephtys pretty much agreed with everything Kamisato said, so i doubt it's actually a theory, especially the part about there not being infinite worlds, ehich Nephy was about to say herself.

The words of the Magical Gods are not too important. They, too, are human, which makes them many times unaware or many times wrong, the same Aiwass whom they did not take seriously.

And Mugino's ability is the power to ignore quantum theory by making the electron exist as a wave and a particle at the same time. This ability is not unlike another monster named Misaka Mikoto. In fact, Mugino's ability is a perfect 1-dimensional point of destruction.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Huh, neat.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Ye, like... I get the Magic Gods not being too reliable when compared to others like Aiwass, but... They, within the realm of "humans" and not "things" like Aiwass, are still the most knowledgeable people in the verse in regards to magic and how the verse works due to their age, experience, and knowledge.

Also, I have no idea on what you mean in regards to Mugino's ability, tbh.

 

[MrOMG]

Ye, like... I get the Magic Gods not being too reliable when compared to others like Aiwass, but... They, within the realm of "humans" and not "things" like Aiwass, are still the most knowledgeable people in the verse in regards to magic and how the verse works due to their age, experience, and knowledge.

Also, I have no idea on what you mean in regards to Mugino's ability, tbh.

If you think about it that way, Anna Sprengel and Anna Kingsford should be superior to the Magical Gods, and the Golden Magi should compare to them (and the great founders even beat them). Although you are right about the Magical Gods knowing a lot, even so I won't believe them.

This was talked about in the PSP game. In it, Kihara Amata analyzed Mugino's ability and said that this ability ignores quantum theory and is a 1-dimensional object(or something like that)

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Eh, even so, there are basically the only ones that really talked about this topic... Although, Crowely's Hazards do exist, so eh.

... Also, also, wait... What?! I thought the only games that ToAru had were the chinese mmo and that gacha game.

 

[MrOMG]

Eh, even so, there are basically the only ones that really talked about this topic... Although, Crowely's Hazards do exist, so eh.

... Also, also, wait... What?! I thought the only games that ToAru had were the chinese mmo and that gacha game.

I'll tell you even more. It's a game that came out in 2011, and it's about two characters. The White Player is the Esper who lives deep in the past, and the Red Player is the Mage who lives deep in the future. Each of them has the ability to control time, the White Player can manipulate the future, and the Red Player the past (although the Red Player said that their abilities will become stronger, and then they can control the future and the past at the same time). It was in this game that we were first told about the timeline, which is like a rubber band with countless nails, as well as the lack of parallel worlds.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

... Huh. So it is canon?

 

[MrOMG]

... Huh. So it is canon?

The game is supposed to be canon, because it expands the lore of the series (although in 2014 Kamachi repeated what he said in the game)

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Welp, learn something new everyday, huh.

 

[XDragnoir]

The words of the Magical Gods are not too important. They, too, are human, which makes them many times unaware or many times wrong, the same Aiwass whom they did not take seriously.

You're right that they are human, but their power is literally that of the gods so if they couldn't find something beyond the one rubber band, then there really isn't anything beyond it until an even higher power appears and says otherwise.

Also, Aiwass really isn't a problem to them without that large scale ritual Aleister planned. You know, the one with IB and Accel.

 

[XDragnoir]

This was talked about in the PSP game. In it, Kihara Amata analyzed Mugino's ability and said that this ability ignores quantum theory and is a 1-dimensional object(or something like that)

If you can get the scans, that would be a cool thing to have added to her profile.

 

[MrOMG]

You're right that they are human, but their power is literally that of the gods so if they couldn't find something beyond the one rubber band, then there really isn't anything beyond it until an even higher power appears and says otherwise.

Also, Aiwass really isn't a problem to them without that large scale ritual Aleister planned. You know, the one with IB and Accel.

Yes, but from Aleister Crowley's point of view, the existence of parallel versions of man is confirmed (there even uses the theory from Virtual-On with all those different "what if" options). And Aiwass is supposed to be stronger than the Magic Gods at the peak of his powers.

Turns out to be a little different there. Mugino's ability is not a 1-dimensional object, but a 0-dimensional one. Just as a cross section of a 3-dimensional object creates a 2-dimensional object, a 1-dimensional cross section creates a 0-dimensional object. Mugino's ability is a way of destroying a 1-dimensional point, thereby achieving 0-dimensional space. And with 0-dimensional space you can reach all possible coordinates in the universe, that is teleportation not limited by mass and distance.

 

[MrOMG]

If you can get the scans, that would be a cool thing to have added to her profile.

It's all there, just search Muguino's story.

 

[XDragnoir]

Turns out to be a little different there. Mugino's ability is not a 1-dimensional object, but a 0-dimensional one. Just as a cross section of a 3-dimensional object creates a 2-dimensional object, a 1-dimensional cross section creates a 0-dimensional object. Mugino's ability is a way of destroying a 1-dimensional point, thereby achieving 0-dimensional space. And with 0-dimensional space you can reach all possible coordinates in the universe, that is teleportation not limited by mass and distance.

Wait what?

Wtf?

 

[MrOMG]

Wait what?

Wtf?

Yes

 

[TalkingTrees]

I have a question can Coronzon gain dimensional travel via being capable of escaping the WR world? (I'm new here so hi ).

 

[Churronzon]

I have a question can Coronzon gain dimensional travel via being capable of escaping the WR world? (I'm new here so hi ).

It's a lot easier to just mention her ability to access higher and lower planes of existence.

 

[MrOMG]

Wait what?

Wtf?

0次元ってのは一つの世界だ. 0次元と3次元は対応しているが、0次元は すべて合わせても「一点」に過ぎない. その「一点」さえ手元にあれば3次元の 全ての座標とリンクできる

 

[XDragnoir]

Yeah there's no way that it canon, literally was never brought up during the novels even tho Mugino has been an important character in more than 3 Volumes

 

[MrOMG]

Yeah there's no way that it canon, literally was never brought up during the novels even tho Mugino has been an important character in more than 3 Volumes

The PSP game is supposed to be canon, since it is the one that explains the timeline, and how it works.

時間は一本道だ。
過去も現在も未来もつながっている. パラレルワールドとは、 多くの世界があるの ではない 時間というゴムヒモを、パチンコ台のように 無数の釘を打った台の. 「どこの釘』に引っかけていくか、という事で しかない

 

[XDragnoir]

The PSP game is supposed to be canon, since it is the one that explains the timeline, and how it works.

Is there any interview saying that? Or is Kamachi directly involved with the game?

Cause like, the timeline thing was explicitly brought up in the LNs, but that statement about Mugino is currently unsupported by anything afaik.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

We have reached ten pages. Nice!

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Is there any interview saying that? Or is Kamachi directly involved with the game?

Cause like, the timeline thing was explicitly brought up in the LNs, but that statement about Mugino is currently unsupported by anything afaik.

To answer this, I did a quick search and it seems Kamachi was involved with the writing of the Index PSP game but probably need to do more digging, imo... and apparently the Railgun PSP game is canon, but that probably isn't important.

 

[MrOMG]

Is there any interview saying that? Or is Kamachi directly involved with the game?

Cause like, the timeline thing was explicitly brought up in the LNs, but that statement about Mugino is currently unsupported by anything afaik.

Kamachi was the screenwriter of the game, the wiki even says so.

 

[MrOMG]

To answer this, I did a quick search and it seems Kamachi was involved with the writing of the Index PSP game but probably need to do more digging, imo... and apparently the Railgun PSP game is canon, but that probably isn't important.

There's another one. You know the movie about the tower and Meigo Arisa? Well, Kamachi wrote enough script for a 2 season anime, so it was decided to split the script into two parts. One as an LN, a movie and a game for the PSP.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

There's another one. You know the movie about the tower and Meigo Arisa? Well, Kamachi wrote enough script for a 2 season anime, so it was decided to split the script into two parts. One as an LN, a movie and a game for the PSP.

Yeah, I know about that trio. Haven't really looked into the PSP game but I am reading the LN and watched the movie awhile back.

Kamachi was the screenwriter of the game, the wiki even says so.

Adding onto this, since we consider the Endymion Trio canon around these due to Kamachi being the writer of all three of 'em, wouldn't this mean that the PSP fighting game (and Virtual On, for that matter) at least has a shot of being considered at most partly canon or smth?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

But ye... Pre-HS!Accelerator vs. Pre-Revival!Kakine does seem like an interesting match-up, imo. It might end up the same way as canon, Accel adapting to Kakine, but Pre-HS!Accel is more intolerant to pain and doesn't have the mindset that his future keys have, so Kakine might be able to get a win under certain conditions.

 

[XDragnoir]

There's another one. You know the movie about the tower and Meigo Arisa? Well, Kamachi wrote enough script for a 2 season anime, so it was decided to split the script into two parts. One as an LN, a movie and a game for the PSP.

We need a thread to discuss this + apply the changes that would come from it, such as Mugino's.

 

[Churronzon]

Accelerator vs Nephthys

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

... Lol.