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I gotta ask again: what infinite strength feats/statements does Othinus have to warrant destroying an infinite-sized structure and qualify for even High 3-A?At her lowest tier Othinus would still be Low 2C for reshaping the universe and Gungnir can destroy it, TMGs would then be L2C too.
Yeah looks like you're right. God and the angels are described as being in heaven.Ehhhh, no? The Archangels are literally in the heaven phase, we know that because of Fiamma and the whole WW3 situation.
Coronzon herself was the angel who resided in ZAX, the tenth Aethyr.
Even Othinus states that the Sephiroth are guarded by the angels.The target is the angel who wanders the
tenth Aethyr of ZAX and is hidden in the Sephiroth’s Abyss along with Da’at. She is the
transcendent being necessary to cross the Abyss and acquire the knowledge beyond.”
“This is a simple adaptation of a sanctifying vocalization. A familiar and tangible metal is
used to envision an invisible Sephirah and, much like a woodpecker, an extra ‘nest’ is
embedded in the pathways between the tree’s spheres in order to alter the rules of the
world. The Sephiroth are guarded by the angels, so is creating a fictional angel supposed
to create a fictional sphere? I see. Fair enough. That is very much the kind of spell I can
imagine a puny human coming up with. A truly hardheaded and boring type of magic that
traps your infinite imagination in the realistic frameworks of metals or elements.”
Of the thirty angels,
the tenth is Zax, also known as Coronzon. Its true essence is the number 333, it prevents
a true bonding with the laws of the world, and thus its true meaning is dispersion. It
appears to assist you and to be the key needed to cross the abyss, but it is actually a Great
Demon that spreads all forms of pollution and atrocities throughout the world from the
one who contacted it. ...Hah. A Great Demon, hm? Such a simple term that provides an
accurate image to even the greatest fool, regardless of their knowledge or education.
Which is perfect for Coronzon.”
“By using written text to divide the spiritual territory spoken of by Enoch into a total of
thirty regions, you create a color palette providing easier use of the supernatural. In other
words, you get the Aethyrs. By absorbing the moonlight in her hair over a long period of
time and spelling out the text with that, she is capable of wielding their avatars. Is that
what this is, Great Demon Coronzon!? Indeed, you were originally the evil angel found in
ZAX, the tenth Aethyr!!”
“Aethyr Avatar – 16: DES.”
“Nee hee!? Aethyr Avatars!!”
Angels made of golden hair appeared by bursting up through the thick layer of ice. 2: ARN,
8: ZID, 13: ZIM, 21: ASP, 25: VTI, and more. Their essences were equal, but their nature
was changed by the letters used to define them. Those false angel images lined up in a
long row.
Several things to consider(although I haven't settled on an answer yet):As the lance was fired with tremendous force, the “happy world” was smashed to pieces
as if space itself was being torn apart. As a fragment of the world approached with the
force of a raging wave, it took on the shape of a giant lance. The walls of all the phases
were crushed, transformed into a swirl of deadly weapons resembling sharp shards of
glass, and approached their pitiful target as if to swallow him whole.
Everything was ripped up.
The black labyrinth, which had used up all of its possibilities, showed itself.
Magic God Othinus had the ability to create, so she was technically not destroying
anything. This may have been a change brought about by adding a new phase into the
world. Nevertheless, it was blatantly obvious what the scene before Kamijou’s eyes would
produce. It was the same as referring to the utter destruction of a luxurious palace as
“creating a pile of rubble”. This was undeniably a torrent of destruction.
(That must mean Imagine Breaker is special to her. It destroys. It does the opposite of
what a god does. This hand holds the possibility of erasing what is unnecessary. In that
case, it should be possible to fix the gears that have been thrown out of order.)
Ollerus had said Imagine Breaker was the selfish dreams of all magicians.
If their twisting of the world produced a disadvantageous result, that reference point or
restoration point could return it to normal or erase what was done.
And wasn’t this exactly such a case?
It seemed the filters Othinus spoke of were existences or concepts identical to heaven or
hell. He was unsure if he could destroy something so massive. In fact, he could not even
imagine what kind of phenomenon would be produced if he touched heaven or hell.
This scan implies she did destroy all the other phases.They had thought that world of darkness had been the full extent of the world. They had
assumed that pitch black despair had been the product of destroying everything and
leaving nothing at all behind.
But in truth, there had been one more layer. It was as uniform as a thin membrane, it had
not even the slightest seam, and it could not be detected or destroyed by anyone, but one
last phase had existed.
This black world was the place not even Magic God Othinus had been able to destroy.
The earth, the universe, and the world were nothing but a giant balloon. And a Magic God
was a potted cactus wobbling on top of the balloon. That would cause anyone to panic.
Once one learned of its existence, they would be worried around the clock that the cactus
would eventually topple over as it moved freely about.
I'm guessing qualitative superiority over Michael and Gabriel, just like the text states. Nothing too crazy."Qualitative superiority" here is meant to be what exactly?
No doubt Toaru's cosmology is a mess. What I'm mostly focused on is establishing that there's higher spiritual realms MGs cant access. Or think of it this way: I'm exploring the implications of Ain being responsible for having created the Sephiroth/the Four Worlds.Also, i just want to add that we are having this discussion because Kamachi never actually explained how the cosmology of the verse works, we have several different concepts in the cosmology and we don't know how exactly they are positioned in the hierarchy, so we could never do something like the official DC map or something more simple like the cosmology blogs for mamy different verses we have here in the wiki.
This is already canon, since it was mentioned in the general official timeline as taking place in a parallel world.Ah right. How do we get that canonized then.
恐らく、今回のコラボ世界の中一番力があるのは
タングラムですよ。Index世界の超能力, 厳密にはあり得ない結果を自分でつかみ取るので、その時点で平行世界をを少し改変する力ではあるですけれど、それはあくまでも、Index 世界の理の中のことなんです。[ゴムひも理論]で説明できるものなんですが、あくまでも、一つの世界の中のゴムひもしか操れない。でも、タングラムは別で、世界と世界の間で入れ替えする力が持ってるから、どんな世界のゴムひももお構いなしに
Probably, in this collab world Tangram is the strongest one. Although, Esper’s from Index’ world, have the power to slightly change parallel world by using quantum theory which allows them to acquire impossible result, in the end, that’s just the nature of Index’ world. This might be explained better on “Elastic band theory”、but in the end, they can only manipulate one’ elastic band world. Tangram is different since it can manipulate any world’ elastic band thanks to having the power of change between worlds.
Nothing like that is really needed to get to L2C, it's really just about destroying space+time and Othinus does exactly that.I gotta ask again: what infinite strength feats/statements does Othinus have to warrant destroying an infinite-sized structure and qualify for even High 3-A?
Idk if we know enough about Imagine Breaker, but would we throw the NT22R Panacea theory in too? Does IB even need an explanation page beyond what is covered in Touma's profile?Hey, hey, fanta here. Messing up the flow of this conversation by asking a simple question... Do you think we should make a user blog page to explain Imagine Breaker? Like how its functions, what it can negate, what it can't negate, the importance of the "pure world" in Imagine Breaker's negation, its potency, and stuff like that for Vs. Matches with Touma... Could also throw in World Rejector stuff as well since it is the counterpart of Imagine Breaker.
From the vantage point of Touma, everything is destroyed yes. As long as we make the distinction clear that she's not destroying the phases themselves, directly. They still exist underneath the new phases created, and their contents don't change.Also, while it's true her power is creation, rather than destruction, it's still explicitly stated that she was creating a pile of rubble with all the phases, so she was destroying them with her creation powers, so it's the same result.
It would be great.Hey, hey, fanta here. Messing up the flow of this conversation by asking a simple question... Do you think we should make a user blog page to explain Imagine Breaker? Like how its functions, what it can negate, what it can't negate, the importance of the "pure world" in Imagine Breaker's negation, its potency, and stuff like that for Vs. Matches with Touma... Could also throw in World Rejector stuff as well since it is the counterpart of Imagine Breaker.
As for why I got this idea, well... I stumbled upon a page in which somebody created a user blog to explain a character's supernatural luck. Figured that this could also be done for IB and WR.
Hm. Honestly, am trying to get a feel of if it is a good idea or not from you guys first. And honestly, idk. But like... IB has a vast range of stuff that it can neg, it is different from quite a few other power nulls, so... am just indecisive about this.Idk if we know enough about Imagine Breaker, but would we throw the NT22R Panacea theory in too? Does IB even need an explanation page beyond what is covered in Touma's profile?
Already tried to answer that above.Several things to consider(although I haven't settled on an answer yet):
- It's stated that Othinus is not technically destroying any of the phases, including the "happy world". She is just creating the Black World over it. The newest phase takes precedence on how the world appears.
Not really, the Black World does pretty much confirm that without the phases there would be an empty void, rather than a direct doorway to the Pure World + she didn't destroy all phases as the Hidden World was still there.
- If Othinus destroyed all the phases, she would have unveiled and reached the Pure World, fulfilling Aleister's plan and likely killed all the Magic Gods. Yet, it didn't happen.
As i just said, i think the Black World is the result of destroying/removing the phases or maybe it's better to say it's the result of setting the phases to 0, it's still a number so part of them but it's a more simple state
- Othinus destroying all the phases would destroy her own Black World.
You know you just answered this yourself in the next points, right? Also, MGs can't revert phase additions, they can add more and that's it.
- If she could peel the layer of phases one at a time, she would have no need for Imagine Breaker to find her world as she could spend her time scraping off phases rather than creating billions to torment Touma.
That was explained in NT14, actually:
- If she destroyed all the phases, including heaven, why do they still exist after the events of NT9? She's not capable of remembering her original world, much less the exact specifications and contents of all the other phases, to recreate them.
Yes.
- Doesn't Othinus needs Imagine Breaker to restore a previous phase?
NT22 RAW:Dumbass Kamachi confused 16th Aethyr LEA with 26th Aethyr DES. Or js06 made a small typo. All the others are correct.
Sometimes js06 or whoever does the transcribing makes typos, especially in the more recent volumes, when working quickly.「アェティール • アバター 。二 六 なる D E S」
“Aethyr Avatar – 26: DES.”
235 第三章(無題)World_Decomposer.
新約 とある魔術の禁書目録 第22巻
Enjoying life as a volleyball-kun. Same question I ask everyday... Seriously. Kakine is as wasted as a character as Index is.Where's NT6 Kakine? Why does Beetle 05 exist?
That's a different Kakine who was recreated with the original organs! He's the original!Enjoying life as a volleyball-kun.
Academy City, ye! Not really sure if any other magic side faction has enough for a civilization profile, tho. But... There is more than enough to make team profiles for God's Right Seat (although, they don't really fight as a team), ITEM, GROUP, and especially the Kamisato Faction.Should we make civilization profiles for academy city and some magic side factions? maybe profiles for certain groups (like Gods rights seat)
kamisato faction is gonna have a hundred members lmaoAcademy City, ye! Not really sure if any other magic side faction has enough for a civilization profile, tho. But... There is more than enough to make team profiles for God's Right Seat (although, they don't really fight as a team), ITEM, GROUP, and especially the Kamisato Faction.
it will be great if some academy city tech feats get calc...Academy City, ye! Not really sure if any other magic side faction has enough for a civilization profile, tho. But... There is more than enough to make team profiles for God's Right Seat (although, they don't really fight as a team), ITEM, GROUP, and especially the Kamisato Faction.
*Harem Memberskamisato faction is gonna have a hundred members lmao
Heh. Will do, have made 19 users blogs/calcs (as of rn, and more will come). Granted, I am pretty sure that enough of AC's Tech has decent enough of descriptions in the LN to warrant them getting a high rating without a calc.it will be great if some academy city tech feats get calc...
That is a fantastic question, Dragnoir. And my answer to that question is simple... Mikoto's Esper power is the one that is moving and/or generating stormclouds in the first place, plus, there is that one scene in the Railgun manga in which Mikoto shots up a thunderbolt in order to make a thundercloud, ergo, it only scales to Mikoto's AP... Probably.Btw, how exactly would we scale Mikoto's cloud feats to any other of her attacks?
We'd need a UES to have storm creation scaling to other stats, not sure even her lightning can scale to it.
IMO, the second point works, the first one doesn't.That is a fantastic question, Dragnoir. And my answer to that question is simple... Mikoto's Esper power is the one that is moving and/or generating stormclouds in the first place, plus, there is that one scene in the Railgun manga in which Mikoto shots up a thunderbolt in order to make a thundercloud, ergo, it only scales to Mikoto's AP... Probably.
there are stuff for low-tiers thoYe, to my knowledge, it is allowed as tertiary canon for calcs and stuff for the Index novels. Should mention that I also looked at it before, and there wasn't anything useful calc-wise there that isn't in the anime but better due to actually having timeframes and better angles for calculating.
tbf it was horrible... Uh. Has anybody noticed that Kamisato's page has been deleted since the 11th? Just checked it (finally gotten off my bum, and it is gone. Apparently, it has been deleted by a mod named Mr. Kambu for being a terrible quality page, and they probably thought so since they saw it was a low-tier profile with a High 1-C tiering attached to it. Gah. I was gearing up to make a profile revisions for GREMLIN (Othinus), but gotta try to do something about Kakeru's profile being nuked... Eh. No rush, I suppose.
Tru, tru, but it is going to be a bother to remake everything from scratch, y'know?tbf it was horribletbf it was horrible
Wasn't it off-screen, tho? For all we know, Thor could've bum-rushed them with Almighty Thor and battered them all with his fists while they couldn't fight back... Could probably scale his magic to Hel, though, but that is a topic for my CRT.should thor scale to hel? he stomp the entirety of Gremlin and was considered its main combat unit
It's on wayback machine.Tru, tru, but it is going to be a bother to remake everything from scratch, y'know?