Toaru Discussion thread New Fourms #1

[XDragnoir]

Accelerator introduced a whole new tree into the universe that would distort the entire world more than the Angel's Fall, this feat alone is already more powerful than anything the Magical Gods have done, as no Magical God has interacted with higher worlds such as Olam Briah.

Magic Gods can literally create and recreate the world as they see fit, that's surely more impressive than distorting it.

Also, thanks for the link.

 

[MrOMG]

Magic Gods can literally create and recreate the world as they see fit, that's surely more impressive than distorting it.

Also, thanks for the link.

Yes, this is true, but the Magical Gods can only influence the human world, which can be explained by various mathematical theories, but the power of the Magical God does not extend to the higher worlds. In OT4, we are told that the Fall of the Angel affected all of the Four Worlds, including the human world. The creation of a new Tree like the Sephiroth, at the deepest and most fundamental level, changed the entire universe, which is far more amazing than simply creating another Phase that only operates within the Surface World.

 

[Excellence616]

is it true that in (toaru verse), if you know the nature of your powers, you can use them better?

 

[MrOMG]

is it true that in (toaru verse), if you know the nature of your powers, you can use them better?

Interpretation of Knowledge. A battle of mages is a battle of intelligence and knowledge, the more you know, the stronger you are. As stated in the work itself, a strong mage uses only the basics.

 

[Excellence616]

Interpretation of Knowledge. A battle of mages is a battle of intelligence and knowledge, the more you know, the stronger you are. As stated in the work itself, a strong mage uses only the basics.

i mean for espers like Gunha who's power is still a mystery?

 

[MrOMG]

i mean for espers like Gunha who's power is still a mystery?

Gunha is a separate case, but if he knew the nature of his powers, then yes, he would become stronger.

 

[Excellence616]

Gunha is a separate case, but if he knew the nature of his powers, then yes, he would become stronger.

okay thanks.

 

[Excellence616]

Gunha is a separate case, but if he knew the nature of his powers, then yes, he would become stronger.

but wouldn't that make Gunha like At least 8-A, Unknown because since he don't understand his power?

 

[MrOMG]

but wouldn't that make Gunha like At least 8-A, Unknown because since he don't understand his power?

I don't think it works that way, since he's only shown strength on 8-A so far, we only have hints of his potential, nothing more.

 

[XDragnoir]

but wouldn't that make Gunha like At least 8-A, Unknown because since he don't understand his power?

Not really how unknown tier works.

 

[Excellence616]

I don't think it works that way, since he's only shown strength on 8-A so far, we only have hints of his potential, nothing more.

Not really how unknown tier works.

Thank You Very Much

 

[Churronzon]

Yeah, and recently Accelerator is straight up stated to have climbed the full thing and yet we didn't see him doing anything beyond what MGs can do.

I see it as more of a foreshadowing of what's to come since the Clonoth is still a sapling.

Hmm, yeah, we currently give him Low Godly regen but it does fot better as type 9 ig.

Those aren't mutually exclusive. His avatar has low-godly while his true form is in the lowest layer of reality for type 9.

Hell, that's exactly how it's done for Scion and he doesn't even exist in a different plane of existence, just a different locked universe.

• Regeneration (High; He can regenerate from any harm to his body by replacing the lost matter with matter from his true body)

Scion's true form doesn't have regen. Only his avatar does.

 

[Churronzon]

We should really discuss how we reconcile Aiwass being killed by Curtana.

Also, a portion of an Archangel's power allows someone to accomplish what Magic Gods can't which is interesting.

 

[MrOMG]

We should really discuss how we reconcile Aiwass being killed by Curtana.

Also, a portion of an Archangel's power allows someone to accomplish what Magic Gods can't which is interesting.

As angels are already stronger than the Magical Gods, it is not surprising that a small part of the power of the Archangel Michael (who is stronger than an ordinary angel and closer to the title of God) can perform feats impossible for a Magical God.

 

[Aseka]

“Every number is the same. My right hand contains Nuit of Resurrection. Watch as the possibilities expand and surpass the bounds of the finite. My left hand contains Hadit of Vengeance. The smallest point gathers and concentrates all forces to create a single meaning. Thus, an attack shall be released from the infinite acceleration of the Circle of Ra-Hoor-Khuit and shall appear on the surface layer of this world.”

This was the ultimate attack that rivaled a Magic God’s lance and had utterly destroyed a certain boy despite the presence of Imagine Breaker.

The tree was not just something to ascend. It could also be descended. The power falling from a point in heaven gained color and other attributes as it descended the various pathways and it finally transformed into one of any number of substances in this world.

Now this is interesting, infinitely-expanding of Nuit, and infinite acceleration from Ra-Hoor-Khuit.
Can this justify for Infinite attack speed?

 

[XDragnoir]

We should really discuss how we reconcile Aiwass being killed by Curtana.

Also, a portion of an Archangel's power allows someone to accomplish what Magic Gods can't which is interesting.

Non Physical Interaction.

As angels are already stronger than the Magical Gods, it is not surprising that a small part of the power of the Archangel Michael (who is stronger than an ordinary angel and closer to the title of God) can perform feats impossible for a Magical God.

...

Would this scale to Fiamma then?

 

[XDragnoir]

I see it as more of a foreshadowing of what's to come since the Clonoth is still a sapling.

When Accel does the soul removal to Coronzon the Clonoth is called a "large tree" so i think it became a full tree the moment Accel added it to the universe.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

...

Oh goodness, you actually said it. Was also curious on how it would scale to Fiamma, but it made me quickly realize that Holy Right is a messy thing in regards in terms of scaling. I am also vaguely aware that Fiamma's HR has a statement somewhere that Curtana (the one from British Halloween) couldn't contain the full power of HR. Could be wrong, tho.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Wait, I found this statement in Index OT 18.

"But Curtana Original here has already lost its functionality. If you were planning to use the chaos caused by the coup d'etat to steal it, you're out of luck."

"Ah, that really is a shame. That really may have been easier," muttered Fiamma as if he really wasn't thinking about it too seriously.

It looked as if he truly did feel the way he said he did.

"No, I guess not. That wouldn't work. It has the right type of power, but its capacity probably wouldn't last. As soon as my power was passed into it, it would probably just be blown to pieces."

"What are you talking about?"

"Oh, just boring gossip. By the way, you were half right. I used this chaos to come here to steal something that the Anglican Church has stored in the darkest depths, but that something is not Curtana."

 

[XDragnoir]

I feel like i know where this is going.

 

[MrOMG]

Would this scale to Fiamma then?

Why not, given that Fiamma uses the power of the Right Hand in Christianity

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Ah, so there is a chance that Fiamma can join the High 1-C Right Hand crew!

 

[Everything12]

Can I see the scan of Curtana being able to kill Aiwass.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

... Actually, this has been bought up a few times now... Why are Imagine Breaker and World Rejector High 1-C? Sure, they can negate/banish High 1-C attacks/defenses/beings, but... isn't that purely done by hax? Granted, MG's High 1-Cness also comes from hax, so it might not matter.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Also, note to self, need to fix Index's profile. Namely, remove any mentions of the Walking Church (due to Touma destroying the thing in literally the first volume and has never been repaired since) and remove her 6-C rating... which was only given due to her Dragon's Breath having the feat of managing to damage Touma's right hand - which doesn't really work, imo, since it was mentioned that Index might have been using 103,000 different kinds of magic at once, i.e, taking advantage of a limitation that IB had rather than directly overpowering it.

 

[Everything12]

... Actually, this has been bought up a few times now... Why are Imagine Breaker and World Rejector High 1-C? Sure, they can negate/banish High 1-C attacks/defenses/beings, but... isn't that purely done by hax? Granted, MG's High 1-Cness also comes from hax, so it might not matter.

Honestly, your not normally meant to list hax like that, but it's such a minor deviation from the standards and is only really helpful, that no one cares enough to put effort into changing it.

 

[MrOMG]

Can I see the scan of Curtana being able to kill Aiwass.

" That sword was an extreme spiritual item that fully united the three factions and four regions of the United Kingdom; it could draw on a portion of Archangel Michael's power while on British territory. If a qualified user released that power even for a moment, a swing of the sword would sever all dimensions at once and giant ruined materials would be created along the line of the slash.

Yes, all dimensions.

Assuming it could hit, that extraordinary power could penetrate the barrier between worlds and kill a being lurking in a different phase… for example, Holy Guardian Angel Aiwass who stayed in the layer of physical laws at the very bottom. "

 

[XDragnoir]

Honestly, your not normally meant to list hax like that, but it's such a minor deviation from the standards and is only really helpful, that no one cares enough to put effort into changing it.

Rather, every time effort was put into changing it, changing it was denied.

 

[XDragnoir]

Granted, MG's High 1-Cness also comes from hax, so it might not matter.

They actually scale to H1C physically too, as their own power would destroy the world im case they entered it.

Also, note to self, need to fix Index's profile. Namely, remove any mentions of the Walking Church (due to Touma destroying the thing in literally the first volume and has never been repaired since) and remove her 6-C rating... which was only given due to her Dragon's Breath having the feat of managing to damage Touma's right hand - which doesn't really work, imo, since it was mentioned that Index might have been using 103,000 different kinds of magic at once, i.e, taking advantage of a limitation that IB had rather than directly overpowering it.

I think it should rather be added as a note that it refers to Index before Vol 1.

Also, the Dragon Breath was stated to be able to destroy the Walking Church iirc.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Rather, every time effort was put into changing it, changing it was denied.

You have to admit it is kinda funny to see a very low-tier person have a High 1-C rating only attached to their right hands.

I think it should rather be added as a note that it refers to Index before Vol 1.

Also, the Dragon Breath was stated to be able to destroy the Walking Church iirc.

Wouldn't that be more evidence to have it removed? All of PenDex's appearances never once featured the Walking Church nor did we have any on-screen examples of its defensive capabilities 'sides a few remarks from Stiyl and Fallen Angel Ero Maid about it.

Also, the Walking Church doesn't have any justifications on it, so we have to fix that, if we can't remove it. Hm... Stiyl called it an absolute defense and was surprised that Kaori managed to cut her although she could've been holding back), so we can have the WC scale to her and say PenDex's DB can destroy the WC and remove all mentions of it bypassing IB - since that opens a can of worms that is best to be closed.

 

[XDragnoir]

Wouldn't that be more evidence to have it removed? All of PenDex's appearances never once featured the Walking Church nor did we have any on-screen examples of its defensive capabilities 'sides a few remarks from Stiyl and Fallen Angel Ero Maid about it.

I mean, if you really want we could have a key for Pre Volume 1 and Post Volume 1 Pendex, it's not wrong i just think a single key for it's peak is more useful than one that wouldn't have a stat (for real, no idea what should be jn it's dura other than WC, that tier via spells is hella sus)

Also, the Walking Church doesn't have any justifications on it, so we have to fix that, if we can't remove it. Hm... Stiyl called it an absolute defense and was surprised that Kaori managed to cut her although she could've been holding back), so we can have the WC scale to her and say PenDex's DB can destroy the WC and remove all mentions of it bypassing IB - since that opens a can of worms that is best to be closed.

Kanzaki said she wouldn't be able to do anything if Index had it on iirc.

Agree on DB having another justification.

Ah, so there is a chance that Fiamma can join the High 1-C Right Hand crew!

Oh, this brings backs memories, some good ones and some bad ones.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Things to do things to do, I suppose. The ToAru-Verse is going to get a lot more support via CRTs soon! ... On a side note, I have come to the realization that Touma has 11-D Power Null via negating Gungnir and Kakeru has 11-D BFR via BFRing Nephthys's phase. Which makes them rather powerful, and I am pretty sure it allows them to bypass a shit-ton of characters resistance towards Power Null/BFR via how this site works.

 

[Iiliminal]

touma tier 0 because he can negate anything supernatural and azathoth is a supernatural being so touma solos

 

[DontTalkDT]

Ah, so there is a chance that Fiamma can join the High 1-C Right Hand crew!

Curtana doesn't wield Tier 1 amounts of energy itself, it just has hax like that. That statement basically just scales him above Carissa.

 

[Axscell]

We should really discuss how we reconcile Aiwass being killed by Curtana.

This should be a feat for Curtana Original more than anything tbh. Going by this text from the LN, it should make sense that it's able to do such a thing, considering the fact that as far as we know, Aiwass is still only High 1-C:

"That sword was an extreme spiritual item that fully united the three factions and four regions of the United Kingdom; it could draw on a portion of Archangel Michael's power while on British territory. If a qualified user released that power even for a moment, a swing of the sword would sever all dimensions at once and giant ruined materials would be created along the line of the slash.

Yes, all dimensions.

Assuming it could hit, that extraordinary power could penetrate the barrier between worlds and kill a being lurking in a different phase… for example, Holy Guardian Angel Aiwass who stayed in the layer of physical laws at the very bottom."

What doesn't make much sense is this.

Also, a portion of an Archangel's power allows someone to accomplish what Magic Gods can't which is interesting.

Considering the fact that Othinus literally destroyed the very world that angels like Michael live in (thereby killing them too, by extension, I'm assuming), it doesn't make much sense for them to match her in terms of tiering, let alone supposedly be above her.

I guess the one detail that could clear things up regarding this, which IIRC has never been addressed, is whether or not Othinus destroyed the Pure World during her rampage or not. I always assumed that she did considering that the Pure World is still a part of the totality of the existing world that Othinus destroyed.

Thinking about it now, shouldn't Curtana Original's rating be something like High 1-C, likely/possibly higher? We know that so far there are only confirmed to be 11 dimensions, but should any higher dimensional being (past the 11-D) be introduced, the text above makes it pretty clear that Curtana Original should still be able to harm them just fine (unless if they're 1-A and above).

 

[DontTalkDT]

Thinking about it now, shouldn't Curtana Original's rating be something like High 1-C, likely/possibly higher? We know that so far there are only confirmed to be 11 dimensions, but should any higher dimensional being (past the 11-D) be introduced, the text above makes it pretty clear that Curtana Original should still be able to harm them just fine (unless if they're 1-A and above).

No, 'cause it's hax. It once was rated as such and it was removed here.
That's basically also how Curtana harming Aiwass reconciles. Curtana simply has a hax Aiwass doesn't resist.

Or, if you mean whether the hax should be considered to likely/possibly be able to harm even higher Tier things: Also no. For a similar reason we don't, say, give Arceus a "possibly higher" rating. Sure, Arceus would always scale to the Pkmn cosmology, so if it was ever revealed that that is bigger, it would also be upgraded. But without reason to assume it's bigger one wouldn't get a "possibly higher" from that.

 

[XDragnoir]

No, 'cause it's hax. It once was rated as such and it was removed here.

Yes, just like how Touma has hax in his AP and tier section, or Kamisato.

You should at least make the profiles consistent.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Bit of a difference between "I have spatial cutting that can affect Tier 1 beings" and "I could literally erase entire Tier 1 sized realms if the conditions are right".
The latter typically gets an AP mention.

 

[XDragnoir]

The first one is actually an offensive things with killing potential, the second is never actually used that way.

Doesn't change the fact BOTH are hax, and Touma can't punch with H1C AP like his profile suggests.

 

[Doggo]

Accelerator vs Satoru Gojo