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TLR vs. Gilgamesh (One More)

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Also TLR can touch Gil and burn away his mana reserves, although I'm not entirely sure what that would equate to in regards to a servant.
 
Servants are treated as having unlimited Mana in vs fights since half of them can't even do anything without a top tier Master. Gil has Independent Action A+ which means he can stick around forever anyway so long as he doesn't spam mana intensive NPs. The only one he uses is GoB which has a ridiculously low mana cost and the NPs fired have none themselves since its just passive effects.
 
Wait you unrestricted all of gils weapons right

In that case from what many people say he leads with ea at this range
 
>infinite mana

Pretty sure that's NLF. As long as he has a pool of mana that he draws from it can be emptied with leeching, unless he resists it.

He can stick around without a master but as you said using mana intensive NPs still drains him.

Gil has all his phantasms, yes, but it would be extremely OOC for him to pull out Ea.
 
@dargoo

from what others have said on previous threads that's actually his in character action at this range
 
Thats how it is in every Servant thread I've been in and no one (for or against the Servant) has contradicted it from what I recall.

He has a pool of mana but it is constantly refilling.

Gil without a Master can already fight indefinitely since he has no mana intensive NPs to use multiple times and he counts as having one in vs fights.

Gate of Babylon takes almost nothing to use since, as seen in his Strange Fake fight with Enkidu, he opened thousands of portals and fired them continuously for a few minutes along with a full powered Ea without being strained in the slightest and it would have continued for far longer if he hadn't been interrupted. Gil's first fight with Enkidu involved them fighting all out continuously for days before they laughed it off and started the world's first bromance.
 
@Anonymous

How fast does his mana regenerate? TLR would practically set it to zero with leeching; he shouldn't be able to use his attacks for SOME amount of time.

Are you sure the phantasms take "almost no mana to use"? It seems more like Gil just has a massive reserve of mana to draw from. Sure, he can regenerate said mana given how you usually treat Fate matches, but if that reserve is set to zero I strongly doubt in a couple of seconds Gil will start tanking out 7-A phantasms. Plus I feel like it's "the mana regenerate indefinitely" and not "limitless mana" otherwise characters like Saber would just spam full powered excaliblasts in matches.

Meanwhile TLR can still speedamp and precog Gil's initial barrage of attacks. Sure, if Gil was serious from the begging he'd just surround Rashek with spam or use a Gae Bolg, but his confidence will cost him that precious time and get him defeated.
 
Actually AFAIK the only part of gob that takes mana is opening it not shooting or pulling things from it and I'm pretty sure it's also a set cost that doesn't increase with the amount of portals
 
True, but Gilgamesh's Noble Phantasm is Gate of Babylon, not necessarily everything within it.

It only costs him mana to open the portals, it costs him nothing to fire the weapons from it.

Gilgamesh battles by shooting the originals of all Noble Phantasms like bullets via Gate of Babylon. The tactic yields excellent destructive power to magic energy efficiency. Since every Noble Phantasm is a bullet, 'the real magical energy used is merely the activation cost of Gate of Babylon.'
 
Yes, but what I'm saying is that Gil's GoB in particular is extremely cheap in terms of how much mana he needs, because all he's actually doing is opening a portal. That's leagues apart from a lot of other Servants NPs which need them to push a huge portion of their mana into it.
 
I mean, yes, however his mana is still getting completly dumped out. Wouldn't he be de-powered for some length of time?
 
What would be the difference in this case, and should I specify?
 
F/SN Gil has a physical human body and is powered by the screaming souls of a hundred tortured orphans or something.

F/Z and F/SF Gil is a human shaped construct made of magical energy and is powered by his master's mana supply.
 
I'll use F/SN Gil by sheer virtue of me not wanting to go through figuring out how leeching would affect a being made of what is essentially investiture.
 
I think we're focusing on leeching a bit too much when it's strength/speed compounding is more the reason why Rashek would take this.
 
Yeah, the Rashek can speed/strength amp indefinitly due to compounding; he should reach and surpass Gil without drawing too much from his reserves.
 
Feurochemy allows you to store physical/mental/spiritual aspects of yourself in a piece of metal, or metalmind, then call on it later. So, you can spend a day weak as hell but gain superhuman strength for a couple of seconds on the next.

However, because TLR can use allomancy and feurochemy, he can burn said metalmind to gain back more of whatever he stored than he lost through storing, then store that, et cetera. This allows him to constantly store strength, speed, speed of thought, luck, et cetera, then call on massive pools of it later, and he can use this to amp in the middle of a fight.
 
To be fair

He still needs to actually burn the metals to get the attribute back out, which means those metals will run out eventually.
 
Yobobojojo said:
So it's just a straight up AP amp? And that's the main reason?
Click to expand...
AP, durability, physical speed, mental speed, wicked fast Regen, luck and age are all storable attributes and then some. And because TLR has such vast stores it's practically unending.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
To be fair

He still needs to actually burn the metals to get the attribute back out, which means those metals will run out eventually.
Click to expand...
True, although I don't see him going through his allomantic reserves during the fight as Gil either quickly kills him with Harpe/Gae Bolg or Rashek quickly kills Gil with amped strength and speed.

He certainly isn't burning through his feurochemical reserves.
 
Someone asked if Atium can be pulled/pushed by allomancy. In the very first book Vin demonstrated it by pulling piece of Atium in her mouth from the flask, crashing it. Still, if the piece of metal has feruchemical charge it would be harder to push.

As far as I understand, TLR has access to all of the 16 allomantic metals. Compounding as a way to boost feruchemical reserves was already mentioned, but there was no mentions of feruchemical way to boost allomancy: by storing investiture in Nicrosil. But I guess that we just assume that Rashek is really powerful allomancer just by himself.

Speaking about precognitions, TLR has three feats in it: Electrum as the way to cancel precognition of the enemy, Atium as the way to see the future by himself and the feruchemical Chromium as the source of the Fortune (it is still speculated that it can mean actual luck manipulation but as far as it was demonstrated its primary use is to see the future like Hoid). Moreover, precognition will still work on any kind of projectiles (except for the Aluminum ones) even if the enemy itself cancelles precognition, so projectile dodging is possible.

As allomantic Bronze can be used to detect even Surgebinding (entirely different magic), Rashek will definitely sense unknown and powerful pulses from Gilgamesh, so he will be serious from the start. On the other hand: can Gilgamesh be influenced by emotional allomancy? Rashek has hemalurgic spike which allows him to penetrate copper clouds by so-called soothing blanket. Can Gil become frightened enough to be more serious from the start or will TLR use emotional allomancy at all?

Lastly, does Gilgamesh have any metal in his current equipment? Judging from the image, his pieces of armor can be used as an additional anchor for allomantic pull.

Currently I'm inclined to vote for Rashek for the reasons which were stated in previous comments (deflecting projectiles by allomancy, using physical/mental speed amplification and precognition to dodge, general boost of any attribute required to make strong punches), but I'll wait for another comments.
 
Yeah. If it wasn't Gil would blitz before Rashek could amp himself in response.
 
Correct me if i am wrong, but i remember something about speed amps that would allow the slower character to blitz being not allowed or that the match woudnt be addable.

I readed that on a thread regarding speed equal with Dyspo and Flash? as a example. And how allowing Dyspo to win a speed equal match through speed amps would be nonsensical.

Again, if this is already retconnend then i said nothing, just throwing this into this thread.
 
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