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Titanic Asura's Wrath Revisions!

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Yes, i think the Moon GBE and the others are done, and people above that arguing something is just arguing About chakravartin volume, which is actually they have to make a new Thread for that
 
I'm proposing the Chakravartin thing as support for the moon, since nobody has reached an agreement on it.
 
I̵f̵ ̵i̵t̵ ̵m̵a̵t̵t̵e̵r̵s̵ ̵I̵'̵m̵ ̵s̵t̵i̵l̵l̵ ̵d̵e̵f̵i̵n̵i̵t̵e̵l̵y̵ ̵l̵e̵a̵n̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵t̵o̵w̵a̵r̵d̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵M̵o̵o̵n̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵C̵h̵a̵k̵ ̵G̵B̵E̵ ̵a̵s̵ ̵b̵e̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵l̵e̵g̵i̵t̵,̵ ̵t̵h̵o̵s̵e̵ ̵v̵a̵g̵u̵e̵ ̵u̵n̵i̵ ̵s̵t̵a̵t̵e̵m̵e̵n̵t̵s̵ ̵a̵l̵s̵o̵ ̵s̵o̵m̵e̵w̵h̵a̵t̵ ̵s̵u̵p̵p̵o̵r̵t̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵t̵ ̵t̵o̵o̵ ̵s̵o̵ ̵i̵t̵'̵s̵ ̵n̵o̵t̵ ̵l̵i̵k̵e̵ ̵i̵t̵'̵s̵ ̵o̵u̵t̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵l̵e̵f̵t̵ ̵f̵i̵e̵l̵d̵.̵
 
Here's the summary of the major points I've been able to gather, forgive me if I have missed anything, and feel free to point it out.


Chakravartin's Moon

Arguments against it:
  • The moon has impossible mass, which would realistically cause it to collapse onto itself. Thus, the calc breaks the rules of physics and cannot be used.
  • Even if it has a size similar to Chakravartin's head when it is firstly created, we see it being much smaller when it collides with Asura.
  • The overall inconsistency of the moon's size makes the feat itself unreliable, regardless of which end you take.

Arguments in favor:
  • Other verses have realistically impossible gravity taken into account for accepted calcs, such as Planet Zebes from Metroid. This creates a double standard, thus we either discard even the other calcs or we accept the moon having such mass.
  • It's completely impossible for the game to always portray humunguos objects and characters with their actual size, due to technological and perspective limitations. Such inconsistencies also occur other times, notably in relation to Wyzen and the Karma Fortress Thus, the moon being smaller when approaching Asura shouldn't be a problem.
    • Counter argument: Unlike Wyzen and the Karma Fortress, we don't have an official sourcedescribing how big the moon is supposed to be

Proposed Compromises:
  • Use the moon in comparison to planet-sized Asura to go safe with a lower end, given the possible unreliability.
  • Make the 3-A via Big Moon a a possibly FRA


Chakravartin's GBE

Arguments in favor:
  • There's no need to use the moon, as Chakravartin alone is either 3-B or 3-A depending on which material we consider him being made of.
  • Asura punches it to death, and then powers up even more to fight Chakravartin's true form which is superior to the Asura who punched Golden Chakra
  • Mantra is a Universal Energy Source, which allows scaling off people becoming big. It is also explicitly used by other characters to become giant (like Wyzen).

Arguments against it:
  • Chakravartin isn't a spherical object, thus the method used to calc his mass is technically invalid
    • Counter Argument: The calc is technically fine because it is based on a theoretical curled up Chakravartin, which would be roughly sphere-shaped. The calc itself is also a lowball due to this assumption, since Chakra would still be super massive.



From what I can personally get (and I might be wrong), it seems that using the moon feat is a too unreliable and inconsistent, but also not necessary due to Chakra himself and the scaling being possible because of the Mantra.
 
Huh, no one wanna calc this? Don't Take from chakravartin perspective

Take it from the close-size from asura, the moon was bigger than the moon if we compared it

And.. asura blow up that star
 
I'll list the points I 1000% agree with.
  • Downgrading speed. We already agreed they weren't real galaxies.
  • The Karma Fortress. There's no way that something from this distance (later shot from closer angle) can be that large, and it demonstrably isn't because of the Earth-fall scene.
The rest I don't have an opinion on, so here's some other stuff.

It was actually Six-Armed Vajra (S-AV) Asura (his mantra had been amped by his daughter to achieve this state) who defeated Vlitra. Just prior, it decimated the Shinkoku Army one-shot base Asura and Yasha with two blasts. At the end of the battle, Vlitra even blasted S-AV Asura hard enough to revert him to base form, although it was subdued by that time. Right after the fight ends Yasha even comments that it's impossible to kill and that Asura was lucky he could even kill Vlitra to begin with, which is supported by Deus being terrified of it gaining any more power.

S-AV was also the one who defeated Gongen Wyzen. Even then, he shattered all his arms against the latter and had to get extremely angry to one-shot Wyzen (an impressive feat, considering that Wyzen was at least as large as the Earth).

Unlike the other Demigods, Asura was betrayed 12,000 years ago, so he didn't have time to massively amplify his powers like the other Generals. Which should also taken into account for Demigod scaling. So Past Vlitra shouldn't be infinitely behind current the planet-sized Wyzen (which really makes sense because the Karma Fortress needed all that energy to one-shot a stronger Vlitra, and Wyzen here is powered by a fraction), and Vajra Asura (the one with the gold forearms) scales well above the Wyzen that smashed the Gohma.

As for the others scaling to 5-B because of Wyzen, though... that just doesn't make sense. Like I said, it's S-AV, who later struggled against Argus, Yasha and co in some of their higher forms. Also, Wyzen transformed by opening his Mantra Reactor and wasting a portion of the Mantra that the Seven Deities collected for the Karma Fortress. Adding to this, the statement was made by Kalrow, whom Six-Arm Asura crushed effortlessly.

While attempting to breech Chakravartin's barrier, Asura is in his Mantra form (notice the jagged plates on his arms) and then breaks it with his Wrath form, which was destroying his body with power. So Wrath > Mantra. Additionally, his Wrath form came out of his Beserker form being hit by the Brahmastra, so the latter should be stronger. However, Yasha does say that he's even stronger than before (seemingly referring to his Six-Arms form, not the Berserker state).

Wrath is a burned out version of Berserker Asura, so it should be weaker than the level of power that he used against the Brahmastra. This should be obvious because I strongly doubt anyone scales to 3/4ths of the full power Brahmastra by virtue of it being a superweapon.

So Berserker > Wrath > Mantra.

Or maybe Berserker > 2nd Wrath > Mantra > 1st Wrath, since Mantra Asura was portrayed as comparable to Yasha's stronger form, and Yasha is portrayed as inferior to Argus normally (although this creates some weird scaling, because the Berserker that Yasha fought was stronger than S-AV).

Edit: Yeah, Berserker powered up to contest with Yasha's stronger form, so I think the 2nd chain makes sense.

This should also be kind of obvious when Berserker was matching 3/4ths of a power supply designed to one-shot Vlitra's new form, while Mantra Asura had to attack its core.
Zamasu_Chan said:
Oh yeah. I forgot you were knowledgeable on Asura’s Wrath. It’s in your name. I’ll be waiting.
Click to expand...
It's actually supposed to be an Oblivion reference, but I accidentally forgot the name a little.
 
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This is what I think for Pre-Mantra Reactor Asura.

Country level (Can destroy large Gohma with ease. Casually defeated Wyzen while injured) | At least Country level (Easily overpowered Seven Deities Wyzen) | Planet level (Halted Gongen Wyzen’s finger press and destroyed him in a fit of rage) | Dwarf Star level (Briefly matched the Brahmastra, expending 75% of the Karma Fortress' accumulated mantra reserves) | At least Planet level (Stronger than his Six-Arm Vajra form, and powered up even further while fighting Yasha. Ripped apart a barrier that Mantra Asura could barely pierce after his second transformation) | At least Planet level (Broke through Vlitra and withstood its attacks)

Base | Vajra | Six-Arm Vajra | Berserker | Mantra

The Demigods could all easily destroy the spaceship Gohma with 1 or 2 hits, but needed to exert effort. As the Seven Deities, they don’t. So I think all their new base forms (barring the characters with higher scaling) should be at least 6-B.
 
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ByAsura said:
This is what I think for Pre-Mantra Reactor Asura.

Country level (Can destroy large Gohma with ease. Casually defeated Wyzen while injured) | At least Country level (Easily overpowered Seven Deities Wyzen) | Planet level (Halted Gongen Wyzen’s finger press and destroyed him in a fit of rage) | Dwarf Star level (Briefly matched the Brahmastra, expending 75% of the Karma Fortress' accumulated mantra reserves) | At least Planet level (Stronger than his Six-Arm Vajra form, and powered up even further while fighting Yasha. Ripped apart a barrier that Mantra Asura could barely pierce after his second transformation) | At least Planet level (Broke through Vlitra and withstood its attacks)

Base | Vajra | Six-Arm Vajra | Berserker | Mantra

The Demigods could all easily destroy the spaceship Gohma with 1 or 2 hits, but needed to exert effort. As the Seven Deities, they don’t. So I think all their new base forms (barring the characters with higher scaling) should be at least 6-B.
Click to expand...
I have the keys organized in the OP.
 
And I disagree with quite a bit of it, as you can see above.

One part that I also have to disagree with is Asura scaling to Wyzen’s explosion. It’s shown that he cracked Wyzen and caused him to burn up, so exploding is likely a secondary effect.
 
You’re not getting the point. It’s not that he heated up, it’s that he exploded well after he began to burn up from Asura’s punch.
 
Because the punch destroyed a large section of his body.

Also, why wouldn’t he? The Demigods/deities are robots.

Asura’s punches don’t ever have some kind of secondary impact stage that causes opponents to blow up well after they take the hit, and it happens as Wyzen’s head is engulfed.
 
ByAsura said:
Because the punch destroyed a large section of his body.
Click to expand...
He punched a small part of his finger. It's smaller than a pin prick from Wyzen's POV.
ByAsura said:
Also, why wouldn’t he? The Demigods/deities are robots.
Click to expand...
This doesn’t answer why an explosion would be the alternative instead of melting.
ByAsura said:
Asura’s punches don’t ever have some kind of secondary impact stage that causes opponents to blow up well after they take the hit, and it happens as Wyzen’s head is engulfed.
Click to expand...
Like I said, that's literally how physics are. You expect something to explode without heating up? That's literally how explosions are, yet you persist in pushing this [headcanon]. Burden of proof is on you my dude. Your entire argument is based off "hey man, why don’t you disprove something I have no evidence for?"
 
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