AkumaNoHissatsu
He/Him- 321
- 220
Alright can we go to the main point?
Revisions on the page
Revisions on the page
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Titanic Asura's Wrath Revisions!
- Thread starter Zamasu_Chan
- Start date
- Status
- 8,846
- 9,507
- Thread starter
- #202
Akuma, I appreciate the support, but a word of advice. Don’t make 2-4 posts in a row. If you forget a detail, just add a new written text by editing your latest message.
- 26,331
- 3,127
the problem is if that the formula for GBE relies on the force of gravity, so you should be able to see the problem that arises if that's greater than the speed of light
tbf, i do believe it's a matter of symbolism that Chakratavin throw moons, as seen by the fact in the second phase of the idol fight he throws suns at you
- 8,846
- 9,507
- Thread starter
- #204
I feel like there needs to be a thread for this
AkumaNoHissatsu
He/Him- 321
- 220
Bump?
AkumaNoHissatsu
He/Him- 321
- 220
AkumaNoHissatsu
He/Him- 321
- 220
Like we need 2-3 staff to accept or what?
- 9,351
- 8,166
I think the lasts points of contention are whether or not the perspective of the moon in relation to Chakravartin is legit, and if that calc can actually be used.
@DontTalkDT Do you have anything to add to the debate?
Is there someone else who could be called?
@DontTalkDT Do you have anything to add to the debate?
Is there someone else who could be called?
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,389
- 9,050
I get that he's extremely busy and I'm not gonna knock him for that but it does kinda grind my gears that we're basically relying on one person for this entire thing out of all of our Staff Members. Again, no disrespect but it does drag CRTs like this to a grinding halt.
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,389
- 9,050
Bump.
- 9,351
- 8,166
This is a fair point.
Since the issue is all about the calculation, I will tag a few calc members and such, to see if we can reach a conclusion.
In the meanwhile, if anyone wants to write a summarization of the arguments in favor and in opposition to the calc being used, they are more than welcomed to do it. (If I'm not wrong, the two points of contention are perspective and realism of the calculation method).
@DontTalkDT @Jasonsith @DarkDragonMedeus @AKM sama @DemonGodMitchAubin @Armorchompy @Amelia_Lonelyheart @Mr._Bambu
- 31,463
- 34,329
If I can get some condensed summaries listing scans and reasons, I might be able to help.
- 15,442
- 15,410
- 32,835
- 38,108
You could also ask @Executor_N0 for further assistance, he also knows his fair share of astronomy-based calcs.
If only Assalt were here today...
If only Assalt were here today...
- 3,231
- 3,119
The fact that the sizes are so inconsistent does make me question how to even determine when it's in the right "scale". I do prefer looking into the official settings for things like that, but I doubt that "moon" has anything close to that.
Of course, considering how many laws of physics are broken at basically every time in that feat, makes one wonder why even try to calc that somehow. Yet that is exactly why we have rules for feats that break the laws of physics and I think that the method used is exactly that one.
If the size of the moon is accepted due to enough evidence and the calc is under our rules, I think it should be fine. However, the acceptance of the size isn't really something that I can decide. I do disagree with so inconsistent sizes, even more when dealing with sizes of light-years and densities that large, but it's just me on this.
Of course, considering how many laws of physics are broken at basically every time in that feat, makes one wonder why even try to calc that somehow. Yet that is exactly why we have rules for feats that break the laws of physics and I think that the method used is exactly that one.
If the size of the moon is accepted due to enough evidence and the calc is under our rules, I think it should be fine. However, the acceptance of the size isn't really something that I can decide. I do disagree with so inconsistent sizes, even more when dealing with sizes of light-years and densities that large, but it's just me on this.
- 8,846
- 9,507
- Thread starter
- #218
Like I said before, the reason it's inconsistent is because of memory space. It's a video game so there’s prone to be limitations. Realistically speaking, no game developers are actually going to make two separate models where one is over 100 million times wider than the other. I'm not even sure that’s possible.
If it were an anime where it's a 2D setting and a lot less limited, then I would understand your concerns, and everyone else's.
- 26,331
- 3,127
except they did so for Wizen and the Karma fortress
- 8,846
- 9,507
- Thread starter
- #220
Yes, which further supports my point.
- 26,331
- 3,127
not really, you are arguing that they couldn't make the models match the intent, yet they did so twice before
- 8,846
- 9,507
- Thread starter
- #222
I used Wyzen's finger as an example before. Here he can stick the whole tip of his finger under the clouds, while here it's nowhere near that small as the tip of his nail looks like it can barely fit under clouds.
- 3,231
- 3,119
Sure, that is definitely the case and I agree with that. But that is also the problem. Without a setting information on what the size should be, we can't be sure which size is supposed to be the correct one. Like, the moment it should be considered "this is the right size".
Since it moves so much and the size is inconsistent, how could someone be sure that the moment chosen in the calculation is the one with the valid representation of the size.
- 8,846
- 9,507
- Thread starter
- #224
When it's first shown, it's almost the size of the golden statue. When we cut to a cutscene it's shown to be smaller. Since you understand the idea of graphical limits, that means it would have to be scaled down no matter what. Otherwise, the planet/moon wouldn’t have been shown to be so big in the first place.
- 26,331
- 3,127
Not the point. That still shows that they have the capabilities to make models that completly dwarf Asura in size.
mmmh, what is more accurate ?
A camera shot from god knows how far away, which we have no actual way to determine the distance from Chakratavin, from a messed up perspective, or the one where we get a direct sense of scale between it and the destructor
also graphical limitation is bullshet considering the stuff the game pulled before, if they wanted to make the moon look bigger they would have
- 8,846
- 9,507
- Thread starter
- #226
No it doesn’t. Are you seriously assuming that Gongen Wyzen and Asura have two both their models in this shot?
“God know how far away” do I seriously have to explain this again? Look at it when it’s first summoned. The first few frames we see it’s at a downward angle from the camera’s POV. We shouldn’t have been able to see Chakravartin from an angle like that if it’s just a regular large planet. When the camera begins to zoom out, that’s when we see more of the galaxies. Again, that wouldn’t be possible with it being 5-A in size.
Show me shots of models being millions of times larger than the human models in the game then.
- 17,276
- 27,078
This is a great point zamasu
Promise you overlord you're really overestimating the capabilities of game design and these engines. No game is going to use two fully rendered, animated, and modeled to scale planet sized models with high detail while still having regular human models millions of times smaller to pull off shots like this
You'd literally never do that, this is literally my area of study in university it's what I do for a living. You frequently cut corners in game development to reduce cost and because doing the easier thing that's a no brainer is the obvious best thing to do. It's why damn near any game you can think of reuses assets and animations from previous games in thier series even minor ones, it reduces cost and it works the easiest. Literally no game development team is going to be rendering and animating 2 actual planet sized bodies with full human sized characters something like that isn't even remotely feasible for a number of reasons and this one shot throws that notion completely out of the water
13:24 we see Wyzen's finger is significantly smaller than it was in other shots only covering a small mountain range instead of being the size of a entire country as we saw with other shots.
Not be an asshole but that's the literal definition of technological limitations and just common sense for game development.
That's all I have to say though as Zamasu has been right on the money this entire time but yeah
- 9,351
- 8,166
@DarkDragonMedeus @DemonGodMitchAubin
Check the last messages after this one below, they are a good summary.
Check the last messages after this one below, they are a good summary.
- 31,463
- 34,329
Looks good to me then
AkumaNoHissatsu
He/Him- 321
- 220
Bruh, Asura Wrath's development just started in 2007 and you wish there was software that could render or generate character models that are hundreds of millions of times larger than normal characters?
- 9,351
- 8,166
I talked to Armorchompy, and here's his stance on the subject:
- About deciding which cutscene is more reliable to scale the size of the moon (the one where it close to Chakra and the one were it's close to Asura), he proposes to use a "possibly". Like, the highest next before 3-A would be High 5-A, and so Chakra and Asura would be "At least High 5-A, possibly 3-A"
- The size of the moon breaking the laws of gravity shouldn't be an issue for the calc itself, because we already use similar calcs, such as planet Zebes from Metroid having a gravity that would be impossible to sustain, but we still use that value for feats happening on that planet.
AkumaNoHissatsu
He/Him- 321
- 220
- 16,121
- 12,620
Honestly I think likely 3-A is better considering that making a model of that kinda size compared to Asura would be impossible, not to mention it would make the scene look worse, the High 5-A end is just to reach a compromise.
- 8,846
- 9,507
- Thread starter
- #235
Just a minor detail, it would be “4-B, likely 3-A” since absorbing the galaxy is 4-B.
- 9,351
- 8,166
You mean moving all the celestial objects of the galaxy, right?
But isn't it more due to Chakravartin being giant? Can it really be scaled to his AP?
(Obviously Chakra's big form would be higher than High 5-A due to virtue of sheer size)
But isn't it more due to Chakravartin being giant? Can it really be scaled to his AP?
(Obviously Chakra's big form would be higher than High 5-A due to virtue of sheer size)
- 8,846
- 9,507
- Thread starter
- #237
- 9,351
- 8,166
I know, but what I wanted to know is if that can be attributed to Chakra's power and not just his size exerting super powerful gravity (the things might also be connected, I'm not an expert of space phisics)
- 8,846
- 9,507
- Thread starter
- #239
Oh, I have no idea?
- 16,121
- 12,620
Honestly, wouldn't Chakra's own size warrant 3-A through GBE?
- Status
