Tier Low 7-C The Legendary Aztec Warrior Tournament (2023) K.O vs Toji

[Arkenis]

Yeah, considering its 20m starting, the area is an arena that seems filled with walls and other structures, and the aoe would engulf the whole area why would he even launch that? Does he not care about the world?

 

[Arkenis]

I mean he can alter the size. Don't think he's gonna use an explosion bigger than the moon on Earth. That said, it's not a suicide attack. K.O.'s not gonna die from standing tens or hundreds of meters away from the epicenter of his own attack. It would be a good way for him to clear out thousands of cursed spirits at once.

Toji doesn't even have that many curses nor are the ones he has powerful enough to need Ko to launch attacks hundreds of meters in size.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yeah, considering its 20m starting, the area is an arena that seems filled with walls and other structures, and the aoe would engulf the whole area why would he even launch that? Does he not care about the world?

It's an empty abandoned colosseum with his enemy in it. He cares about the world, but it's not like he's gonna kill enemies by just narrowing down the blast radius to blow the colosseum away.

Toji doesn't even have that many curses nor are the ones he has powerful enough to need Ko to launch attacks hundreds of meters in size.

He wouldn't know how powerful they are though. It's not like he can sense CE. He'd just wanna clear them out as fast as possible and use an AoE Power Fist to clear them out. He's not gonna try to shoot them all out of the sky one by one by one. That would take wayyyy too long when he needs to focus on his main opponent.

 

[LaserPrecision]

If it wasn't clear, I'm not saying K.O.'s gonna use a nearly earth size explosion to kill Toji. He can reduce the size. He has explosions that range from a couple meters large to the size displayed in the clip. He would simply minimize the area to blow away all of the cursed spirits at once. Which at best would cover a hundred or so meters. And given there's no innocent around that would cause K.O. to hold back, that'd be no issue.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Alternatively, he could infuse energy into the ground or arena to cause the entire thing to blow up to really localize the damage and get rid of hiding spots.

Should be feasible given he has both the power and range to do so.

And if it's not also clear, based on profiles alone, I'd give it to Toji. But I think if both were up to date, I would be in favor of K.O.

I was just saying that I don't think sending out a bunch of flying Cursed Spirits is going to slow him down when he can just use an AoE power fist that blows Toji and all the Cursed Spirits away in one attack.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

But it literally makes no sense.

He can not produce any AOE larger than a fist without the attack making contact with something first. Once the fist lands, then you can talk about AOE.

Toji can simply dodge his fist before it makes contact, even mid air, while also counter-attacking at the same time with his skill. growing combat speed and several bladed weapons.

I don't see this kind of attack from KO being effective for anything at all. Curse or no curse. Gojo even has a better AOE because his can be omnidirectional, KO's? Not so much unless he does suicide attacks in character. I don't even think Toji will need the curses here because KO will not destroy everything around him fast enough before Toji sneak attacks him with several piercing attacks at once.

KO is going to need much more than this to land enough attacks to beat someone as steathy, skilled, and agile as Toji.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Power Slide which gives him Relativistic travel speed

Also bro has FTL combat speed, meaning his travel speed is slower than Toji's

 

[LaserPrecision]

But it literally makes no sense.

He can not produce any AOE larger than a fist without the attack making contact with something first. Once the fist lands, then you can talk about AOE.

Toji can simply dodge his fist before it makes contact, even mid air, while also counter-attacking at the same time with his skill. growing combat speed and several bladed weapons.

I don't see this kind of attack from KO being effective for anything at all. Curse or no curse. Gojo even has a better AOE because his can be omnidirectional, KO's? Not so much unless he does suicide attacks in character. I don't even think Toji will need the curses here because KO will not destroy everything around him fast enough before Toji sneak attacks him with several piercing attacks at once.

KO is going to need much more than this to land enough attacks to beat someone as steathy, skilled, and agile as Toji.

At no point was I ever talking about the fist size. I've been referring to the explosion followed by it. He wouldn't need to hit anyone in particular either for it to blow up. It just hitting a surface would cause an explosion.

And what's this talk of a suicide attack? Him being caught in the shockwave of his own explosion is t even going to cause any significant damage. Pretty sure K.O.'s futa and endurance lets him eat up attacks on his level If I'm remembering correctly.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Also bro has FTL combat speed, meaning his travel speed is slower than Toji's

Wait, what? When did Toji get a Relativistic upgrade?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Wait, what? When did Toji get a Relativistic upgrade?

What??

Koji is FTL with Rel Travel Speed.

FTL>Rel

Since KO's combat speed is equalized, his travel speed will be slower than Toji's combat speed.

At no point was I ever talking about the fist size. I've been referring to the explosion followed by it. He wouldn't need to hit anyone in particular either for it to blow up. It just hitting a surface would cause an explosion.

OKay then...

Well i dont think Toji will get caught in the blasts since he didn't even get caught by Gojo's Omnidirectional "Blue".

But you said he will destroy the arena. Since he doesnt have omni-directional AOE, he would need multiple attacks to do that. The time spent destroying the Arena with about 3-4 attacks is more time for Toji to learn KO's moves and plan accordingly.

And what's this talk of a suicide attack? Him being caught in the shockwave of his own explosion is t even going to cause any significant damage. Pretty sure K.O.'s futa and endurance lets him eat up attacks on his level If I'm remembering correctly.

I am saying Suicide attacks because that is the oly way KO will clear the arena around him with one attack (Heck the flying curses are surrounding him omnidirectionally so KO will need to get caught in his own blast to clear them all. KO doesn't even do attacks like that in character, and Toji will take advantage of a staggered KO who just got hit by his own attack (which isnt in character anyway) or a distracted KO freaking out and being distracted.


You don't realize how each second wasted doing something other than figuring out where Toji is just makes things easier for Toji.

---

So it looks like Toji has far better skills than KO.

Toji is one of the most skilled fighter in the verse. He is capable of dodging atatcks mid air and can read the subtle changes in air density and temperature to anticipate his opponent's moves. He is very thorough with his attacks, as he staggers his enemies, landing multiple strikes to keep them off balance and unable to regain their footing, (especially with bladed weapons)

Beyond his exceptional hand-to-hand combat skills, Toji is a master of various weapons. He has the capability to take down an entire clan and hierarchy of skilled fighters if he chooses to. Maki, a formidable fighter herself, already demonstrated this feat when she was not even on Toji's level. His strategic thinking allows him to analyze his opponent's moves and devise effective counterattacks.



Now if youll excuse me Im going to watch the new episode of JJK, Toji vs Geto.

 

[Arkenis]

Koji is FTL with Rel Travel Speed.

Who tf is Koji?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

OK KO NOT KOJI MY BAD

 

[Arkenis]

OK KO NOT KOJI MY BAD

and when tf did he become FTL???

 

[Arnoldstone18]

and when tf did he become FTL???

At least FTL (Is comparable to Rad and Enidwho who dodged Darrell's lasers)

 

[LaserPrecision]

What??

Koji is FTL with Rel Travel Speed.

FTL>Rel

Since KO's combat speed is equalized, his travel speed will be slower than Toji's combat speed.

Ohhh, I see what you mean. This is not true though. K.O.'s speed will be lowered to Toji's in a speed equal. The slower isn't raised to the faster one's speed.

That said, K.O. ONLY has Relativistic Travel speed via Power Slide. It's an amp. His top speed when running is only Speed of Sound at best. Meaning his Power Slide should still be faster.

OKay then...

Well i dont think Toji will get caught in the blasts since he didn't even get caught by Gojo's Omnidirectional "Blue".

But you said he will destroy the arena. Since he doesnt have omni-directional AOE, he would need multiple attacks to do that. The time spent destroying the Arena with about 3-4 attacks is more time for Toji to learn KO's moves and plan accordingly.

Gojo's "omnidirectional blue" isn't even an Omnidirectional blast though. Gojo creates Blue which is an attrative force, and whipped it around him in a circular area to clear out all the buildings that could block his view.

His AoE is an explosion. Ofc it's Omnidirectional. The explosions maximum area of effect is bigger than that of the moon, but can of course be minimized to take up a smaller area. K.O. can just infuse a power fist into the ground and cause the entire arena to blow up. Or fire a Power Fist at any part of the Colloseum and expand the range to be the size of the entire arena.

I am saying Suicide attacks because that is the oly way KO will clear the arena around him with one attack (Heck the flying curses are surrounding him omnidirectionally so KO will need to get caught in his own blast to clear them all. KO doesn't even do attacks like that in character, and Toji will take advantage of a staggered KO who just got hit by his own attack (which isnt in character anyway) or a distracted KO freaking out and being distracted.

I think in the case of 90% of fiction, most people no-sell the AoE of their own explosive attacks. I mean even Rad for example is affected by the AoE of his shockwave which cracked his home planet. The shockwave just propagated past him without any effect despite Radicles putting in visible effort. Nor will Toji be able to capitalize on K.O. being staggered (if he even does) as he'd be caught up in the massive AoE and be blown away by it as well. I do agree K.O. would probably get distracted though. At least from what I remember. I'm thinking of binging the first series again or something.

So it looks like Toji has far better skills than KO.

Toji is one of the most skilled fighter in the verse. He is capable of dodging atatcks mid air and can read the subtle changes in air density and temperature to anticipate his opponent's moves. He is very thorough with his attacks, as he staggers his enemies, landing multiple strikes to keep them off balance and unable to regain their footing, (especially with bladed weapons)

Beyond his exceptional hand-to-hand combat skills, Toji is a master of various weapons. He has the capability to take down an entire clan and hierarchy of skilled fighters if he chooses to. Maki, a formidable fighter herself, already demonstrated this feat when she was not even on Toji's level. His strategic thinking allows him to analyze his opponent's moves and devise effective counterattacks.

I agree with Toji being more skilled. But Toji being able to wipe his clan isn't really a skill feat considering he's way faster and way stronger than any of them. He can one-tap pretty much anyone in the the Zen'in family. Everything else is valid tho.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Ohhh, I see what you mean. This is not true though. K.O.'s speed will be lowered to Toji's in a speed equal. The slower isn't raised to the faster one's speed.

That said, K.O. ONLY has Relativistic Travel speed via Power Slide. It's an amp. His top speed when running is only Speed of Sound at best. Meaning his Power Slide should still be faster.

Thats not how our speed equalization works

Everything greater or slower than combat speed will remain so even while equalized. For example, if the travel speed is 2x faster than combat speed, once equalized, it will STILL be 2x faster, but this time it will be two times faster than the equalized opponent.

KO's travel speed (Mach 1 up to Rel with Power Slide) is far slower than his combat speed (FTL) so he isn't outrunning Toji who is as fast as his combat speed.*

Gojo's "omnidirectional blue" isn't even an Omnidirectional blast though. Gojo creates Blue which is an attrative force, and whipped it around him in a circular area to clear out all the buildings that could block his view.

His AoE is an explosion. Ofc it's Omnidirectional. The explosions maximum area of effect is bigger than that of the moon, but can of course be minimized to take up a smaller area. K.O. can just infuse a power fist into the ground and cause the entire arena to blow up. Or fire a Power Fist at any part of the Colloseum and expand the range to be the size of the entire arena.

I never said Gojo's blue was a blast, i just said his AOE is omni-directional.

Unless KO blows up himself, it's not omnidirectional relative to himself, and the explosion has an AOE that occurs in the direction his energy fist lands. The flying curses are surrounding KO and at point blank range.

K.O. is blasting himself in the process by infusing energy into the ground below his feet. Now can you show me a scan of K.O. performing suicide attacks like this?

I think in the case of 90% of fiction, most people no-sell the AoE of their own explosive attacks. I mean even Rad for example is affected by the AoE of his shockwave which cracked his home planet. The shockwave just propagated past him without any effect despite Radicles putting in visible effort. Nor will Toji be able to capitalize on K.O. being staggered (if he even does) as he'd be caught up in the massive AoE and be blown away by it as well.

"90% of fiction" isn't an argument... it's called "attenuation", Shockwaves have less force the further away you are. The shockwave =/= being near or at the epicenter of explosion itself.

You are claiming K.O. is blowing up the literal ground beneath his feat, not getting hit by some shockwave from afar. He gets hit by his own BLAST. While that is useless and downright stupid in its own right (creating a smoke screen Toji can exploit with his stealth), K.O. will be injured by it. If K.O. does a suicide blast, Toji will simply hold himself down with Class M LS.

Toji doesn't need his curses here, tbh now that the debate has gone this far. There are too many exploitable scenarios here.

But Toji being able to wipe his clan isn't really a skill feat considering he's way faster and way stronger than any of them. He can one-tap pretty much anyone in the the Zen'in family.

That's why I mentioned Maki performing the same feat since she is weaker than him. She's more skilled than the likes of Naoya, Ogi and Naobito and other members of the clan who could harm her. Toji is above Maki.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Thats not how our speed equalization works

Everything greater or slower than combat speed will remain so even while equalized. For example, if the travel speed is 2x faster than combat speed, once equalized, it will STILL be 2x faster, but this time it will be two times faster than the equalized opponent.

KO's travel speed (Mach 1 up to Rel with Power Slide) is far slower than his combat speed (FTL) so he isn't outrunning Toji who is as fast as his combat speed.

Wait, so even things that have a set speed like attack speed will be lowered? Like for an example a character who can shoot a verbatim lightspeed laser for one of their attacks? Or is that a rare exception?

I never said Gojo's blue was a blast, i just said his AOE is omni-directional.

The AoE isn't that crazy though. Blue itself was a few meters in diameter, and its vacuuming effects was a few more meters. Versus any range between a few meters up to larger than the moon.

Unless KO blows up himself, it's not omnidirectional relative to himself, and the explosion has an AOE that occurs in the direction his energy fist lands. The flying curses are surrounding KO and at point blank range.

K.O. is blasting himself in the process by infusing energy into the ground below his feet. Now can you show me a scan of K.O. performing suicide attacks like this?

For what it's worth, when he infuses his Power Fist into something, he controls the way in which it explodes. He caused two explosions, and none of them touched/hurt him:

So I don't necessarily think he'd need to worry about being affected by the force himself. Also yeah, I might be able to find a feat. Been a few years since I watched the show, but I'll see what I can find.

"90% of fiction" isn't an argument... it's called "attenuation", Shockwaves have less force the further away you are. The shockwave =/= being near or at the epicenter of explosion itself.

Radicles himself was directly at the center of the shockwave he generated. It was caused by a handshake he was doing with a relative. The shockwave had no effect on his hand or the rest of the body and as it propagated out caused the planet to crack. Though yeah, this is Radicles, not K.O.

That's why I mentioned Maki performing the same feat since she is weaker than him. She's more skilled than the likes of Naoya, Ogi and Naobito and other members of the clan who could harm her. Toji is above Maki.

They could harm her, but she was also overwhelmingly stronger. IIRC Naoya was the only one who put up a good fight. Due to his speed ofc. Like, sure, it's a skill feat. But being able to beat people you're easily stronger than (and faster than, though not by an astronomical amount bar Naoya ofc) isn't the most impressive of skill feats.

 

[DemonicDude]

Okay two voted for Toji

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Wait, so even things that have a set speed like attack speed will be lowered? Like for an example a character who can shoot a verbatim lightspeed laser for one of their attacks? Or is that a rare exception?

Nope, it’ll all scale relative to combat speed. So if you are FTL with LS lasers in a speed equal match, your lasers are slower than both you and your opponent.

The AoE isn't that crazy though. Blue itself was a few meters in diameter, and its vacuuming effects was a few more meters. Versus any range between a few meters up to larger than the moon.

Thats more so range of the AOE, I’m talking about directionality.

For what it's worth, when he infuses his Power Fist into something, he controls the way in which it explodes. He caused two explosions, and none of them touched/hurt him:
So I don't necessarily think he'd need to worry about being affected by the force himself. Also yeah, I might be able to find a feat. Been a few years since I watched the show, but I'll see what I can find.

Noticed how those two explosions are shown away from him and not on him. you even admitted none touched him.

You said he would blow up the entire arena around him right?, you need omnidirectional AOE to achieve this and not just one specific area or direction. The explosion needs to cover the arena he’s standing on itself.

Now do you see the difference? He is capable of doing it if we wants to blow himself up in the process but will he? Or will he aim at multiple places to achieve the same result. One way or the other Toji capitalizes off his analytical prediction and stealth off the smoke screen caused by the blast or distraction.

Radicles himself was directly at the center of the shockwave he generated. It was caused by a handshake he was doing with a relative. The shockwave had no effect on his hand or the rest of the body and as it propagated out caused the planet to crack. Though yeah, this is Radicles, not K.O.

Wtf a planet cracking handshake??

They could harm her, but she was also overwhelmingly stronger. IIRC Naoya was the only one who put up a good fight. Due to his speed ofc. Like, sure, it's a skill feat. But being able to beat people you're easily stronger than (and faster than, though not by an astronomical amount bar Naoya ofc) isn't the most impressive of skill feats.

Well Naoya could break her bones and he was faster so at least you have that. He’s still one of the most skilled in the clan. As he was considered a genius. Maki is above him and Toji is above this Maki cuz Maki hadn’t reached Toji’s level of skill and mentality until her rematch with Naoya after she had a thousand battles with the sumo guy.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Noticed how those two explosions are shown away from him and not on him. you even admitted none touched him.

Fair. I was gonna comment on the rock fragments, but I guess there'd be no reason for them to be carrying any notable amount of energy.

Wtf a planet cracking handshake??

Yeah, lmaooo. K.O. feats are wild. They also shook the planet with burps too.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I should get back to the series

 

[LaserPrecision]

I should get back to the series

You definitely should. I know a site where you can watch the whole series that's convenient (Unless you'd prefer to buy it or use some pirating site instead. The one I used just lets you download the videos and is nicely formatted. Kinda my go to way to watch it). Imma binge it and try revising the verse since it desperately needs it.

 

[DemonicDude]

What's the conclusion here ? Can we reach a reasonable conclusion cuz I want to finish this tournament mid way through August. That's going to be a busy month.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yeah we’re done. Just needs votes i guess

 

[Reiner04]

Tojzgxi fra

 

[Spectral69420]

Togoiji fra

 

[Lonkitt]

Toji's page lists him as High 7-C. Am I missing something here?

 

[DemonicDude]

He just got upgraded yesterday according to the edits, is that true ?

 

[Lonkitt]

I couldn't tell you personally

 

[LaserPrecision]

I was gine with voting Toji from the beginning. So you can count my vote. K.O. and Toji will have an updated page someday, and then they'll face off again, I'm sure.

 

[DemonicDude]

So wait if Toji was yesterday upgraded to High 7-C ? then he can not be in this tournament then cause it's low 7-C

 

[LaserPrecision]

Oh, weird. I looked at the history, I don't think this change was made on account of a CRT. But it was apparently made as a correction

 

[DemonicDude]

Huh well then, Toji wins this fight but K.O moves on then

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Toji's page lists him as High 7-C. Am I missing something here?

It’s an error, will be corrected shortly upon replacement of the bad page.

 

[DemonicDude]

Very well then Toji advances
Also mind voting here so we can finish these two matches

https://vsbattles.com/threads/tier-low-7-c-the-legendary-aztec-warrior-tournament-2023-adam-warlock-mcu-vs-eye-guy.156738/#post-5938725

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Toji FRA

 

[DemonicDude]

Grace

 

[Lonkitt]

It’s an error, will be corrected shortly upon replacement of the bad page.

I don’t think we should use a page that isn’t even up to date

 

[DemonicDude]

I don’t think we should use a page that isn’t even up to date

Probably a grammatical error. Nothing is changed on the abilities side.

 

[Arkenis]

I don’t think we should use a page that isn’t even up to date

Was corrected already.