Tier Low 7-C The Legendary Aztec Warrior Tournament (2023): Heatblast vs Toji

[Arnoldstone18]

When was it ever shown that Heatblast is required to do a specific action to build up said heat? If angered, younger Pyronite can do so by getting angry, why wouldn’t a Ben who knows Toji is trying to kill him go all out and release all he has got?
Considering that ‘Supernova Hot’ is a key for heatblast, and there isn’t a younger version of heatblast as a key, we should perfectly take in account that he should be able to do it at any time, or if we wanna go with what you’re saying.
He can do it when he’s angry, or desperately needs a win.

1. You basically just paraphrased what I said with a few mistakes such as you implying he doesn’t need a specific action. I can only remember two times he performed supernova. Once as an immature brat and the second one required a specific action when he was no longer an immature brat.
2. It’s a rage amp like I said before but Ben is not getting that angry in character. He has no feats of getting angry at will, except when he was an immature 4 year old brat. Even when he’s getting beaten up he will not get angry. 10 year old Ben is emotionally stable.

So if you can send scans of 10 year old Ben doing it at will, that’ll be cool.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

If they’re fighting in a traditional gladiator arena where will he be sneaking if I may ask?

You clearly didn’t see the picture of the arena if you’re saying stuff like this.

Ben should have a fair win con by pointing at Toji and setting him on fire. He doesn’t actually need to touch someone to set something on fire.

And when has he started with that or even done that in character exactly?

 

[Spilxson2]

Wouldn't SBA mean Ben's trying his best to win? He has the supernova amp by moving quickly. but even without it he already has about a 3 times Attack Potency advantage. He can also send fire tornadoes at Toji, overwhelm him with projectiles or fly to a high distance if he sees Toji trying to sneak around

 

[Uzukeas]

1. You basically just paraphrased what I said with a few mistakes such as you implying he doesn’t need a specific action. I can only remember two times he performed supernova. Once as an immature brat and the second one required a specific action when he was no longer an immature brat.
2. It’s a rage amp like I said before but Ben is not getting that angry in character. He has no feats of getting angry at will, except when he was an immature 4 year old brat. Even when he’s getting beaten up he will not get angry. 10 year old Ben is emotionally stable.

So if you can send scans of 10 year old Ben doing it at will, that’ll be cool.

Yet you’re forgetting two things.

Supernova Hot is a specific key for 10 year old Ben. If I remember correctly, he didn’t ever go Supernova hot as a 10 year old, but considering that a 10 year old pyronite should be massively stronger than an enraged baby pyronite due to the age difference.
We even see with Ben’s other aliens such as Diamondhead(who lost to cyborg Vilgax at 10, Then beat Warlord Vilgax at 15. Warlord Vilgax should be massively stronger than his previous Cyborg self by the statements of him absorbing 10 other otherworldly heroes,) that a 5 year gap is a pretty notable power boost.
It should be generally accepted that a 10 year old heatblast is able to use supernova hot levels at will if he needs to, but he has never needed to.

Once again, Supernova hot is a key for 10 year old Ben. Unless you want to give Heatblast a separate key for his 4 year old self, he should be able to access that power at any time he wants.
He hasn’t ever shown he needs to have prep.

 

[Uzukeas]

You clearly didn’t see the picture of the arena if you’re saying stuff like this.



And when has he started with that or even done that in character exactly?

my bad, I didn’t see the picture.

He has never started with that, but considering Ben is a competent fighter, if he was aware that Toji is out to get him via the prep time which he has, I don’t see why he wouldn’t start with that.

He sets Gwens foot aflame for a joke without actually sending any fire balls.

 

[Spilxson2]

10 year old Heatblast can go supernova without rage but he needs to be moving really quickly to do so. Also I think that he can probably just fly high up into the air and try to spot Toji if he's sneaking around

 

[Uzukeas]

Wouldn't SBA mean Ben's trying his best to win? He has the supernova amp by moving quickly. but even without it he already has about a 3 times Attack Potency advantage. He can also send fire tornadoes at Toji, overwhelm him with projectiles or fly to a high distance if he sees Toji trying to sneak around

agreed.

 

[Spilxson2]

Already voted for Heatblast but I'm just trying to say how both he and Toji have win conditions

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Wouldn't SBA mean Ben's trying his best to win? He has the supernova amp by moving quickly. but even without it he already has about a 3 times Attack Potency advantage.

I have already addressed every single thing you’ve said here. Toji closes the gap and supernova is out of character which is also SBA. You don’t think that the villains he faces requires that he tries his best to win? When has he gone supernova against a human and without Gwen telling him to do so? Why would Toji stay in plain sight?

He can also send fire tornadoes at Toji, overwhelm him with projectiles or fly to a high distance if he sees Toji trying to sneak around

If he can locate him first lol. Toji will clearly be aware of how dangerous he is upclose and range spam.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

10 year old Heatblast can go supernova without rage but he needs to be moving really quickly to do so. Also I think that he can probably just fly high up into the air and try to spot Toji if he's sneaking around

Not in character for the 10 year old unless it involves a giant water monster or a large figure in general (Toji is small and nimble target), even at that Gwen told him to do it at the time.

 

[Spilxson2]

I have already addressed every single thing you’ve said here. Toji closes the gap and supernova is out of character which is also SBA. You don’t think that the villains he faces requires that he tries his best to win? When has he gone supernova against a human and without Gwen telling him to do so? Why would Toji stay in plain sight?

Does he need to be told by Gwen to go supernova hot? Pretty sure he could do it without Gwen telling him to do so

If he can locate him first lol. Toji will clearly be aware of how dangerous he is upclose and range spam.

True, but Heatblast can range spam too. He did it here and he was also missing on purpose

 

[Uzukeas]

Would it not be in character for Ben to try a large AOE attack to weed out Toji?

 

[Spilxson2]

I still think that Ben can use Heatblast's flight to avoid Toji catching him off guard with stealth

 

[Arnoldstone18]

He has never started with that, but considering Ben is a competent fighter, if he was aware that Toji is out to get him via the prep time which he has, I don’t see why he wouldn’t start with that.

He sets Gwens foot aflame for a joke without actually sending any fire balls.

Heatblast isn’t aware of Toji preparing for him. Infact if he was aware then that means Toji is also aware of him and proceeds to do everything stealthily. So no Ben is not starting with that and Toji will go stealth mode immediately. Making it impossible for Ben to detect him.

Does he need to be told by Gwen to go supernova hot? Pretty sure he could do it without Gwen telling him to do so

I highly doubt that considering he refuses to do so before and after Gwen told him. But if you insist on saying Ben will use Supernova regardless… Toji can easily counter it by simply moving out of the way unlike the monster. Infact I’m pretty sure Ben wouldn’t be able to find Toji while also dealing with range spams from Toji’s infinite chain.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Already voted for Heatblast but I'm just trying to say how both he and Toji have win conditions

Toji’s wincons are just far more likely than Ben’s.

True, but Heatblast can range spam too. He did it here and he was also missing on purpose

He will still miss against Toji except it won’t be on purpose. Heck will Ben aim at if Toji is avoiding his sight?

Would it not be in character for Ben to try a large AOE attack to weed out Toji?

I can see him considering doing this as an option. But weeding out won’t work. Gojo already tried that by literally clearing out the battlefield. Toji would’ve prepared and predicted that would happen.

Keep in mind he can greatly boost all stats including speed by telling Ben what Heavenly Restriction is (Toji’s powers). It’s called showing your cards. Not to mention his accelerated development enabling him to get faster and faster over time.

I still think that Ben can use Heatblast's flight to avoid Toji catching him off guard with stealth

Yeah I see that happening after taking a couple of hits but Toji can still reach him in the air with his infinite chains, guns or other ranged weapons he has in his disposal.

 

[DemonicDude]

The way I see it

• Standard battle assumption = Heatblast uses his normal moves fire projection, fire ball etc
• Blood lusted = Heatblast goes supernova

 

[Spilxson2]

Well Heatblast already has the Attack Potency advantage even without the supernova. I still think Heatblast has a good chance sinceh e can spam projectiles while flying

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Well Heatblast already has the Attack Potency advantage even without the supernova. I still think Heatblast has a good chance sinceh e can spam projectiles while flying

Toji’s large scaling chain and showing cards closes the gap, if not overcome it.

Spamming projectiles is useless if you don’t know where to aim at. Waste of stamina.

Heatblast has wincons but does not have a good chance to use them. Toji is calculated, analytical, and most importantly prepared to face these wincons, abusing the environment and his weapons the best way possible.

You are free to believe what you want. But I strongly believe Toji is winning this fight.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Look, I don’t want to respond to things that have already been addressed so if there’s nothing new to say, let’s finish voting

 

[chosen]

Toji fra

 

[Arnoldstone18]

One more till grace

 

[Arkenis]

My votes gonna come down to what Heatblasts fire degree is. If it's able to melt metal like iron then Toji's gonna be disarmed quickly here.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

My votes gonna come down to what Heatblasts fire degree is. If it's able to melt metal like iron then Toji's gonna be disarmed quickly here.

With a continuous application of heat he can melt metal. I don’t see how this would disarm Toji who can infinitely produce chains.

 

[Arkenis]

With a continuous application of heat he can melt metal. I don’t see how this would disarm Toji who can infinitely produce chains.

Can I see a vid of this?

 

[Arkenis]

I still think that Ben can use Heatblast's flight to avoid Toji catching him off guard with stealth

Feel like his stealth won't matter here since its based off CE and not something else that's natural like life sensing or something else. And yeah his flight would make this somewhat harder but Toji should be capable of moving and jumping in the air high enough.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Can I see a vid of this?

Cant show you rn but you’ll probably be sent a vid of him getting escaping traps that look like metal, or melting a tank after raising it’s temperature with a continuous fire attack. Both of which took a short period of time but not instantaneous.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Feel like his stealth won't matter here since its based off CE and not something else that's natural like life sensing or something else.

What?

Smh I’ll respond later… eating rn.

 

[Arkenis]

What?

Smh I’ll respond later… eating rn.

His stealth his dependent on Gojo not being able to sense his ce, nothing else. You respond all you want but it won't change that fact. Otherwise I would've added Stealth mastery.

 

[Arkenis]

Regardless, if the fire's hot enough to start deforming the metal like the chains, or his swords then he gets disarmed and after that he'll just engage in physical combat. The ap difference isn't really relevant here considering it's only a 3.767857143x difference which won't change much and he upscales from that by a large degree. Whats the stamina of Heatblast and are the omnitrix abilities like its regeneration allowed?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

His stealth his dependent on Gojo not being able to sense his ce, nothing else. You respond all you want but it won't change that fact. Otherwise I would've added Stealth mastery.

Drop the stupid attitude. I don’t care if you ****** up the page but not adding the abilities he is supposed to have.

If human beings with ******* normal senses in addition to Cursed Energy sensing can not detect him. What makes you think that those with regular 5 senses will? Gojo is literally the only one who could detect his casual presence behind him. These are feats you intentionally ignore because you think you know it all.

Look, if you’re going to keep up the attitude and leave his page with missing abilities, I’ll just go ahead and make a CRT.

 

[Arkenis]

Drop the stupid attitude. I don’t care if you ****** up the page but not adding the abilities he is supposed to have.

If human beings with ******* normal senses in addition to Cursed Energy sensing can not detect him. What makes you think that those with regular 5 senses will?

Look, if you’re going to keep up the attitude and leave his page with missing abilities, I’ll just go ahead and make a CRT.

lmao. You can look at the crt I did for them, Duedate brought up the same stuff I told you here, Gojo not sensing him isn't because of a general thing, it's because Toji doesn't have CE for Gojo to sense. That's why his resistance to analytical prediction and enhances senses is limited, because it's based off sensing CE. And people can sense him, with their eyes. As long as Heatblast is fast enough he can see Toji and attack. And there is no attitude, I'm being serious that this is a fact. Go ahead and make a CRT.

 

[Uzukeas]

lmao. You can look at the crt I did for them, Duedate brought up the same stuff I told you here, Gojo not sensing him isn't because of a general thing, it's because Toji doesn't have CE for Gojo to sense. That's why his resistance to analytical prediction and enhances senses is limited, because it's based off sensing CE. And people can sense him, with their eyes. As long as Heatblast is fast enough he can see Toji and attack. And there is no attitude, I'm being serious that this is a fact. Go ahead and make a CRT.

Agreed for Tojis stealth not being something usable.
I haven’t read Gojos past arc in a while, forgot about this.

Tojis stealth only accounts for his lack of cursed energy and nothing else, Heatblast still has my vote.

 

[Uzukeas]

Regardless, if the fire's hot enough to start deforming the metal like the chains, or his swords then he gets disarmed and after that he'll just engage in physical combat. The ap difference isn't really relevant here considering it's only a 3.767857143x difference which won't change much and he upscales from that by a large degree. Whats the stamina of Heatblast and are the omnitrix abilities like its regeneration allowed?

Unknown,
The Omnitrix regeneration may not be allowed since this is 10 year old Heatblast.
Heatblast can fight an entire army of drones, so it’s very much superhuman.
Heatblast should have a win con by hitting him with a wave of fire.

 

[Arkenis]

Unknown,
The Omnitrix regeneration may not be allowed since this is 10 year old Heatblast.
Heatblast can fight an entire army of drones, so it’s very much superhuman.
Heatblast should have a win con by hitting him with a wave of fire.

Alright. And those drones do they require him to actually try or were they fodder?

 

[Uzukeas]

Alright. And those drones do they require him to actually try or were they fodder?

I’ll send it to you and let you decide, I’m pretty sure they required a good bit of effort.
Here, 0:16 seconds.

 

[Arkenis]

Heatblast still has my vote.

why? How does Heatblast counter Toji's heat resistance?

 

[Uzukeas]

why? How does Heatblast counter Toji's heat resistance?

This doesn’t seem to be his revived version.

 

[Arkenis]

This doesn’t seem to be his revived version.

Those resistances are for both. Its all due to his Heavenly Restriction so it won't matter here.

 

[Uzukeas]

Those resistances are for both. It’s all due to his Heavenly Restriction so it won't matter here.

Heatblast has striking strength relative to his AP, he should be able to hurt Toji by punches.
Also, how far does his heat resistances go?

 

[Arkenis]

Heatblast has striking strength relative to his AP, he should be able to hurt Toji by punches.
Also, how far does his heat resistances go?

Should be able to take a blast that vaporized metal, which Maki had a burn scar from but it was less severe. I can see them being relative in power with Toji slightly stronger.