Tier High 6-A The Battle of the Beast Tournament (2023): Monster King Orochi vs Monkey D Luffy

[DaMonkeMan]

I've concluded that luffy's prediction is going to be a complete ******* joke here
he's gonna be completely surrounded by martial arts tentacle danmaku, so regardless if he sees it coming it's going to be the equivalent of being surrounded by lions and being like "hohoho, I will win because my prediction tells me that the one on the left is going to maul me, and then the one on the right is going to maul me" and then you get mauled



on another note, orochi's AP feat wasn't calced for LS, which could change things

Uh, no.
It's gonna be like "Oh, Kaidou is about to try to hit me multiple times at once with his Kanabo? I should either dodge or match him with the same technique."

That's nice. However.

See here.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Uh, no.
It's gonna be like "Oh, Kaidou is about to try to hit me multiple times at once with his Kanabo? I should either dodge or match him with the same technique."

See here.

not sure what is this meant to be showing me but either way, a bunch of INDIVIDUAL HEADS surrounding him which are all capable of garou tier martial arts is much different than a dude swinging around a bunch of maces, it's an insanely incomparable scenario

 

[DaMonkeMan]

not sure what is this meant to be showing me but either way, a bunch of INDIVIDUAL HEADS surrounding him which are all capable of garou tier martial arts is much different than a dude swinging around a bunch of maces, it's an insanely incomparable scenario

Basically, Luffy may have only 2 fists compared to the tens of heads, but he was still able to hit characters like Lucci 6+ times at once with Jet Gatling pre ts and Kaidou like 8 times at once with Hydra.

Can't provide any scans of these because every time I google something it just freezes on that page and barely shows anything on it so you're just gonna have to look up " Jet Gatling " and " Gomu Gomu no Hydra ".
So he should be able to match some of the heads consecutively despite seemingly having a disadvantage in the quantity of his limbs.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Basically, Luffy may have only 2 fists compared to the tens of heads, but he was still able to hit characters like Lucci 6+ times at once with Jet Gatling pre ts and Kaidou like 8 times at once with Hydra.

Can't provide any scans of these because every time I google something it just freezes on that page and barely shows anything on it so you're just gonna have to look up " Jet Gatling " and " Gomu Gomu no Hydra ".
So he should be able to match some of the heads consecutively despite seemingly having a disadvantage in the quantity of his limbs.

I should not need to explain the difference between throwing out an attack rush and fighting like 30 martial artists that are surrounding you

you are a shitposter

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I should not need to explain the difference between throwing out an attack rush and fighting like 30 martial artists that are surrounding you

It's either he does that or just dodges.

you are a shitposter

Alright good night for real folks.

 

[Recon1511]

"He just dodges"
Ok

 

[ZillertheBucko]

It's either he does that or just dodges.

This is stupid. That’s it.
Luffy is literally fighting a danmaku of water stream rock smashing fist users with HIGHER AP THAN HIM all at once and you think a basic ass jojo stand rush is going to be able to do something against them all??????
But then again I’ve come to expect you doing this, ever since the whole “sans would never lead with his strongest attack first” ordeal
but back on topic, luffy is going to use his mid analytical prediction to try and find some miracle plot armor that will prevent him from being mauled from all sides by what are essentially high 6-A tentacles with Garou’s skill.

And your argument is “he just dodges”
and people keep wondering why I have no faith in the vs thread system.

 

[Recon1511]

on another note, orochi's AP feat wasn't calced for LS, which could change things

I mean the energy he absorbed from the Earth's core was the one displacing Earth's layers so I don't think it really applies to his own LS.

That being said I guess it could be calculated what sort of LS Orochi would need to start attracting said energy from the core on the first place. But we are getting off topic here.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

also to emphasize the fact that orochi is easily far more skilled than garou
he copied garou's water stream rock smashing fist just by looking at him. That might sound rather typical until you realize that just by looking at his STANCE, he was able to copy the entire skillset of his style before he even used it, and seemingly has mastery of it
orochi is the most underrated skill god and he needs some respect on that extraordinary genius feat

 

[ZillertheBucko]

That being said I guess it could be calculated what sort of LS Orochi would need to start attracting said energy from the core on the first place. But we are getting off topic here.

yeah that, it seems like a pretty decent lifting feat at least putting him beyond class G

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I feel like people just ignore that he has future sight, attack reflection, and empowerment.

 

[Recon1511]

I mean those are good but don't do much against 3 types of Danmaku with 4 times AP and dura compared to Luffy. At some point he just gets overwhelmed.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I feel like people just ignore that he has future sight,

my entire last post was literally about this specific thing, jesus ******* christ dude

 

[LordGinSama]

Garou's skill is pretty much an irrelevant factor, as skilled as he is, Garou's analytical prediction is dogshit in comparison to Luffy's Kenbunshoku Haki.


The heads could overwhelm Garou, but Garou also lacks future sight unlike Luffy. Garou can be as skilled as he wants but at the end of the day he doesn't have precognition that's temporal based like Luffy's. Dodging them would be like child's play.

 

[LordGinSama]

my entire last post was literally about this specific thing, jesus ******* christ dude

Your also utterly wrong in that regard.




Show me Garou or Orochi ever overwhelming people with temporal precognition. Oh wait that's right, never happens.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Your also utterly wrong in that regard.




Show me Garou or Orochi ever overwhelming people with temporal precognition. Oh wait that's right, never happens.

guy with precognition predicting that his entire city is about to be nuked and then it gets nuked
huzzah, my prediction is clearly completely unbeatable

 

[LordGinSama]

guy with precognition predicting that his entire city is about to be nuked and then it gets nuked
huzzah, my prediction is clearly completely unbeatable

Luckily Orochi's dragon heads don't encompasse the same range and AoE as that of a nuclear explosion.


Pre Time skip Luffy has dodged things with a much wider area of effect than Orochi's dragon heads without the use of precognition.

 

[Epiccheev]

huzzah, my prediction is clearly completely unbeatable

Nessuno può sfuggire dal destino scelto
Rimane solo il risultato che voi sarete distrutti
L’eterna cima esiste solo per me
Puoi cantare canzoni di tristezza nel mondo senza tempo

 

[LordGinSama]

Also oddly enough Orochi doesn't even have Danmaku in his profile which the others have been arguing.



Technique Mimicry is useless, Luffy has nothing that Orochi could replicate.




Also Orochi can only absorb shit after being reduced to a Heart Elemental.

 

[KochengPutih]

I feel like people just ignore that he has future sight, attack reflection, and empowerment.

You arent sleeping yet?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Also oddly enough Orochi doesn't even have Danmaku in his profile which the others have been arguing.

because if doesn’t use projectiles, it’s effectively the same as danmaku and it’s not something that needs to be listed on the profiles as danmaku

Technique Mimicry is useless, Luffy has nothing that Orochi could replicate.

shockingly, that isn’t even what was being argued

Also Orochi can only absorb shit after being reduced to a Heart Elemental.

well this is not only blatantly untrue but also pretty irrelevant all things considered

Luckily Orochi's dragon heads don't encompasse the same range and AoE as that of a nuclear explosion.


Pre Time skip Luffy has dodged things with a much wider area of effect than Orochi's dragon heads without the use of precognition.

You completely missed the point somehow
the point is that luffy being able to out speed some fodder is completely non comparable to the fact that him being surrounded by tentacles with 4 times his AP and with insane fighting skill is not a situation that he’s going to be able to escape, as his precognition would show him
there is literally no possible way for him to actually escape or defeat anything in that situation
if he tries to punch them it’s just gonna make things worse when his attacks get reflected
luffy’s prediction is actual dogshit in this situation and the amount of stupid ass wank you’re trying to put on it to say he can escape the equivalent of being surrounded with god skill martial artists with attack reflection is baffling to me when you’re basing this off of stupid stuff like “he can hit people with barrages!” and “he’s dodged people before!”
Stop.

 

[LordGinSama]

Classic Ziller moment.

 

[LordGinSama]

because if doesn’t use projectiles, it’s effectively the same as danmaku and it’s not something that needs to be listed on the profiles as danmaku

Cool, doesn't help him at all here given that Luffy has precognition that would allow him to dodge. Your acting as if Orochi's horns are kilometers in size, they're not large enough to the point where Luffy would be unable to dodge them via seeing the events happening in the future before they even happen.

shockingly, that isn’t even what was being argued

I can literally quote the arguments using technique Mimicry.

well this is not only blatantly untrue but also pretty irrelevant all things considered

Source: I made it up.



Garou nor Saitama never got absorbed by interacting with Orochi's body, both of whom lack any resistance to it whatsoever. It only works whenever he's in his heart elemental form so he can rebuild mass that he lost.

You completely missed the point somehow

I didn't miss the point, your point for lack there of a better word is horse shit.

the point is that luffy being able to out speed some fodder is completely non comparable to the fact that him being surrounded by tentacles with 4 times his AP and with insane fighting skill is not a situation that he’s going to be able to escape, as his precognition would show him

Who the **** said anything about outspeeding? Luffy wasn't outspeeding his opponents, shit most of the opponent he fights are regularly faster than him. I find it genuinely funny that you say that I'm the one who missed the point whenever you literally have no idea what I'm even talking about.



Luffy sees into the future, views Orochi's horns attacks and bounces. Orochi's horns and his dragon head's don't have kilometers worth of AoE, there's absolutely nothing stopping Luffy from escaping Orochi's attacks. Them being 4x Luffy's physical stats have nothing to do with how Luffy evades them, the skill issue is hard countered by temporal precognition that allows you to consistently stay steps ahead of the opponent.

there is literally no possible way for him to actually escape or defeat anything in that situation
if he tries to punch them it’s just gonna make things worse when his attacks get reflected

Congratulations Luffy also has Attack Reflection to send back attacks at Orochi, two can play at that game and Luffy's is much more versatile than Orochi's attack reflection which works by shifting the trajectory of the attack back at the attacker.


Luffy can have the whole ass environment reflect attacks. Like Orochi's Luffy can resend attacks with twice the force (Via scaling above his other gears.) And has a much, much wider range.

luffy’s prediction is actual dogshit in this situation and the amount of stupid ass wank you’re trying to put on it to say he can escape the equivalent of being surrounded with god skill martial artists with attack reflection is baffling to me when you’re basing this off of stupid stuff like “he can hit people with barrages!” and “he’s dodged people before!”

None of it is wank lmfao.



You claiming wank and crying = You not having a good counter argument.

Stop

You really need to practice what you preach considering you are literally known as the guy who cries and moans in every OPM whenever people don't agree with you.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Orochi basically has a 4x AP and Durability advantage along with Attack Reflection and durability negation while Luffy also has dura neg and attack reflection, I'd argue that Orochi's is better.
Luffy relies on his rubber body to send attacks back and isn't instant. Orochi on the other hand relies on changing the attacks trajectory mid fight, has danmaku (sort of) and has the option of an Omnidirectional attack while luffy reflects one at a time.

Both have dura neg but Luffy's works by attacking from inside the opponent. Orochi has been to survive getting turned into goop. Having his internal organs damaged shouldn't be a problem for him and with his AP & dura advantage Luffy's attacks would be doing close to nothing compared to Orochi.

Luffy's precog is an issue but Orochi has danmaku. How is Luffy gonna dodge all tens of dragon heads, horns attacking him from every direction with speed equal? This has to be one of the biggest wanks I've ever seen.
About Luffy matching the danmaku with his rush attacks, what's he gonna do when Orochi incorporates rush attacks into his dura neg and attack reflection martial arts which can dish out 2x his opponents AP+ his own 4x advantage?

Transmutation is basically useless here given the nature of Orochi's body in the first place.

For these reasons i vote Orochi. Didn't even factor in his heat attacks.

My concern is, why tf do we assume Luffy's attack reflection scales higher with his gear transformation? Is it even stated that he can return attacks with more times the power? He's literally just bouncing attacks of himself, if anything the force of the attack should reduce before being sent back.

 

[DemonicDude]

In all seriousness, can we focus on the debate instead of these childish insults, pls?

 

[Recon1511]

Cool, doesn't help him at all here given that Luffy has precognition that would allow him to dodge. Your acting as if Orochi's horns are kilometers in size, they're not large enough to the point where Luffy would be unable to dodge them via seeing the events happening in the future before they even happen.


Luffy sees into the future, views Orochi's horns attacks and bounces. Orochi's horns and his dragon head's don't have kilometers worth of AoE, there's absolutely nothing stopping Luffy from escaping Orochi's attacks. Them being 4x Luffy's physical stats have nothing to do with how Luffy evades them, the skill issue is hard countered by temporal precognition that allows you to consistently stay steps ahead of the opponent.

The attacks don't need to be kilometers in size to hit Luffy, he can run away but sooner or later he will have to get in melee range to fight Orochi and he can precog all he wants but with the sheer amount of attacks eventually some are going to land and they will hurt, badly.

Also trying to deflect attacks by directly letting his piercing horns 4 times over his durability "deflect" against his body is just a bad idea.

Garou nor Saitama never got absorbed by interacting with Orochi's body, both of whom lack any resistance to it whatsoever. It only works whenever he's in his heart elemental form so he can rebuild mass that he lost.

Both are terrible examples. He was explicitly told by Gyoro Gyoro to not kill Garou, just subdue him and he literally got blitzed and one shotted by Saitama, no chance to absorb anything in that case.

 

[LordGinSama]

Luffy's precog is an issue but Orochi has danmaku. How is Luffy gonna dodge all tens of dragon heads, horns attacking him from every direction with speed equal? This has to be one of the biggest wanks I've ever seen.

Speed being equalized is irrelevant when it comes to precognition. It's not "wank." as much as it is you literally failing to comprehend shit.



Luffy sees the future before it even happens, he has all the time in the world in order to dodge them. He'll see them coming before they can even act them He'll respond accordingly. Speed being equalized has nothing to do with how his precognition works, plus he also has Speed amps in the form of Soru so .

My concern is, why tf do we assume Luffy's attack reflection scales higher with his gear transformation? Is it even stated that he can return attacks with more times the power? He's literally just bouncing attacks of himself, if anything the force of the attack should reduce before being sent back.

Because it's literally stated G5 is the pinnacle of what his Devil Fruit abilities have to offer, and yes its directly stated that he can reflect things with twice the force.



I swear some of yall refuse to read profiles.

Luffy relies on his rubber body to send attacks back and isn't instant. Orochi on the other hand relies on changing the attacks trajectory mid fight, has danmaku (sort of) and has the option of an Omnidirectional attack while luffy reflects one at a time.

Also completely and utterly false, G5 reflection works by turning things into rubber, such as the environment itself in order to reflect attacks.



Orochi doesn't have Danmaku.

About Luffy matching the danmaku with his rush attacks, what's he gonna do when Orochi incorporates rush attacks into his dura neg and attack reflection martial arts which can dish out 2x his opponents AP+ his own 4x advantage?

I'm not sure who started the "He can match danmaku with his rush attacks." argument tbh. He wouldn't, it's more of a mix of Precognition that's based on future sight meaning he can act before Orochi acts, G5's sheer unpredictably and the fact that G5 is much, much much harder to actively hit than Garou. Secondly Orochi has zero experience in dealing with G5 like character.



Luffy has his own attack reflection with the same thing, but it's more versatile. The 4x AP thing is nice and all but Luffy can match it eventually via passive Empowerment.

 

[Recon1511]

Orochi FRA btw, you should count his votes.

 

[LordGinSama]

The attacks don't need to be kilometers in size to hit Luffy, he can run away but sooner or later he will have to get in melee range to fight Orochi and he can precog all he wants but with the sheer amount of attacks eventually some are going to land and they will hurt, badly.

The attacks would need to be large enough to even scratch Luffy, who otherwise can dance around Orochi with the usage of Kenbunshoku Haki and Soru.



Regeneration, endurance and speed amps neg all of that, secondly Hao and Buso barriers to dampen the blows.

Also trying to deflect attacks by directly letting his piercing horns 4 times over his durability "deflect" against his body is just a bad idea.

Who said anything about deflecting off his body? G5 Reflection doesn't work like that, so your argument kinda collapsed upon itself there.

Both are terrible examples. He was explicitly told by Gyoro Gyoro to not kill Garou, just subdue him and he literally got blitzed and one shotted by Saitama, no chance to absorb anything in that case.

Yet the other monsters that Orochi fights or kills are never absorbed. He stabbed right through Awakened Cockroach and that didn't absorb him either, instead he ate him.




Fortunately Luffy is capable of a blitz in the form of Soru.

 

[DemonicDude]

Orochi FRA btw, you should count his votes.

3 (Recon, Zill, Kachon)

 

[Recon1511]

3 (Recon, Zill, Kachon)

You forgot Maitreya, Randomguy and Tatsumi

 

[LordGinSama]

 

[Tatsumi504]

Speed being equalized is irrelevant when it comes to precognition. It's not "wank." as much as it is you literally failing to comprehend shit.

Classic based Gin

Luffy sees the future before it even happens, he has all the time in the world in order to dodge them. He'll see them coming before they can even act them He'll respond accordingly.

Which i would agree with if it were just 1-5 opponents. Here he's surrounded by tens to possibly a hundred tentacles attacking him at the same. No amount of precognition is letting you dodge omnidirectional attacks with speed equal.

Because it's literally stated G5 is the pinnacle of what his Devil Fruit abilities have to offer,

How does this vague as hell statement= he can reflect stuff with more force? That's a rather sudden conclusion to jump to.

Also completely and utterly false, G5 reflection works by turning things into rubber, such as the environment itself in order to reflect attacks.

By turning the ground into rubber then stretching and bouncing attacks off it. The rubber would absorb the force of the attack before snapping back and reflect it. Now question is, while doing this what's he gonna do about the other dragons coming at him from every other angle?

Orochi doesn't have Danmaku.

(Sort off) they're just not projectiles.

 

[Recon1511]

Yet the other monsters that Orochi fights or kills are never absorbed. He stabbed right through Awakened Cockroach and that didn't absorb him either, instead he ate him.



Fortunately Luffy is capable of a blitz in the form of Soru.

Who? Gouketsu who he specifically brought to transform into a monster? Awakened Cockroach was killed and eaten yes, but that doesn't mean anything. Nobody is saying Orochi leads with Absorption or does it all the time, it's something he can plausibly do because he has shown to be able to do so.

Hell even when his body was restored and reformed into Psykorochi (Orochi being the main body of the fusion) he was still able to absorb other beings and energy.

Also, Soru? Luffy starts on Gear 5 which is last key with the highest speed rating, which is what Orochi speed is equalized to.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Another thing about discussions with one piece characters; no amount of reading the profiles is gonna help me immediately understand wtf Kenbushouku, Haoshouku, ACoC etc are. can you just call it conqueror', observation, armament haki normally?
So with that said, what the hell is soru for G5 supposed to be?

 

[KingTempest]

"Luffy relies on his body to reflect attacks"

Yall just be talking

 

[Tatsumi504]

"Luffy relies on his body to reflect attacks"

Yall just be talking

Yeah, he pulls up the ground to reflect an attack in front of him, what's he gonna do about the ones coming from his sides and behind?

 

[LordGinSama]

Which i would agree with if it were just 1-5 opponents. Here he's surrounded by tens to possibly a hundred tentacles attacking him at the same. No amount of precognition is letting you dodge omnidirectional attacks with speed equal.

He wouldn't be surrounded in the first place is what I'm saying, before that even happens he gets out of effective range. Luffy can attack from a much higher range, he has a range of Tens of Kilometers vs Orochi's Kilometers. And speed amps from Soru.

How does this vague as hell statement= he can reflect stuff with more force? That's a rather sudden conclusion to jump to.

It's a far cry from being a vague statement. The G5 statement is clear and direct as you can get. I assume you don't read One Piece?

By turning the ground into rubber then stretching and bouncing attacks off it. The rubber would absorb the force of the attack before snapping back and reflect it.

My guy your applying physics to the guy who literally says **** you to physics as a whole in G5. That reflection still scales above his other previous forms of reflection.

Also, Soru? Luffy starts on Gear 5 which is last key with the highest speed rating, which is what Orochi speed is equalized to.

Soru is a speed amp that he can use in any key.

 

[LordGinSama]

Another thing about discussions with one piece characters; no amount of reading the profiles is gonna help me immediately understand wtf Kenbushouku, Haoshouku, ACoC etc are. can you just call it

Observation Haki = Kenbunshoku Haki.


Luffy uses advanced Observation Haki, allowing him to read minds, intent, danger, emotions, grants x ray vision, soul vision, dozens of forms of enhanced sensory abilities, Instinctive Reaction, and Luffy's after his Katakuri fight he can outright spam the **** out of his future precognition.



Also keep in mind the only time Luffy's ever been struck by another person after unlocking this ability is people with insane speed amplifiers. Luffy needed a massive boost in speed to hit Katakuri because of his future vision and they were equal in terms of speed before Luffy decided to blitz. Kaidou needed his fastest attack to blitz Luffy's precognition despite them being on pretty much even grounds before.





Armament is just several forms of barriers + durability negation + not needing to hit the opponent directly.



Conquerors Haki is like Armament Haki but on roids.

 

[Popted2]

now that i think about it, can Orochi resist the Conquerer's Haki?