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Tier 2 Revision: Merging 3D Spaces and Destroying Empty Space

Ultima_Reality said:
So, is there anything left to do here, as is?
Click to expand...
We were all waiting for you regarding what we should do with Proposal 2, whether you agreed or disagreed with the tiering of destroying empty space.

Deagonx said:
Proposal 2: The destruction of a universe-sized space is often tiered based on the content of the space itself. However, if that space is considered empty it should not be considered tierable for AP as nothing has properly been destroyed, and should only be considered range. We tier destruction feats based on the energy required to destroy something, but there is no logical way to tier the destruction or creation of a space in which there is no matter.
Click to expand...
 
Ultima_Reality said:
So, is there anything left to do here, as is?
Click to expand...
Clarification on your last reply
Ultima_Reality said:
I'm speeding a bit to tackle threads I've been neglecting as of late, and all things considered this one isn't so high in the priority list, so, if there's anything left to settle after this post, I'll probably take a bit to respond. Anyway:


It's inherently a physics-breaking thing, yes, as I pointed out above. That said, DontTalk expressed an opinion in the aforementioned EE thread that I find myself very much agreeing with, namely:



I apply the same rhetoric to this case.


Personally, I'd apply the above logic to this case as well. Just tier it by however large the space in question is.

Proposal 1 can probably be placed as a brief note in the Tiering System page. Something like "Note that merging realms does not necessarily warrant a Tier 2 rating, unless said realms are provably separate spacetimes."
Click to expand...
 
Talked with Ultima on Discord, he said he disagrees with Proposal 2.

He said he will say it in the thread after two days (Hopefully that's not a joke).
 
KLOL506 said:
Talked with Ultima on Discord, he said he disagrees with Proposal 2.
Click to expand...
Would it be inconvenient to provide a link/screenshot to the conversation that took place between both of you?

This would help prevent potential criticism from other users.
 
Honestly tho I would rather wait for Ultima to say it himself in this thread in case people try to call these fake or claim that I edited the comments to make it look like Ultima agreed.
 
That is no longer proposal 2 for one, it has been changed amidst discussion. Anyway I will wait for him to reply here in person.
 
PrinceofPein said:
That is no longer proposal 2 for one, it has been changed amidst discussion. Anyway I will wait for him to reply here in person.
Click to expand...
Could you specify which Proposal 2 you are referring to? This clarification would facilitate communication, allowing Ultima to address it without the need to reference the previous version, which would prolong this discussion unnecessary.
 
Last edited:
PrinceofPein said:
That is no longer proposal 2 for one, it has been changed amidst discussion. Anyway I will wait for him to reply here in person.
Click to expand...
Wait, what? Where? What has it been changed to? Because Deagon's OP doesn't show the change.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Could you specify which Proposal 2 you are referring to? This clarification would facilitate communication, allowing Ultima to address it without the need to reference the previous version, which would prolong this discussion unnecessary.
Click to expand...
KLOL506 said:
Wait, what? Where? What has it been changed to? Because Deagon's OP doesn't show the change.
Click to expand...
It was ultimately and I that discussed it. Deagon has not been here a while so its understandable.
Empty spaces that are destroyed through attack that travels qualifies for AP. Those done through other means are to be treated as hax or ED and they also get ST manipulation.
 
PrinceofPein said:
Those done through other means are to be treated as hax or ED
Click to expand...
We've been doing that for most of our feats where we don't have proof that they scale to striking strength with a Universal Energy System or so. Such as Storm Feats, weather feats, Creation Feats, so on and so forth. For quite a long time at that.

But, as Ultima had clarified before, whether or not they scale to physicals will depend on a case-by-case basis. UES is one of them.

Also, as we have all discussed here, regardless of whether they scale to physicals or not, regardless of whether they are combat-applicable or not, they will still be indexable.

PrinceofPein said:
and they also get ST manipulation.
Click to expand...
This is kinda iffy, as that would imply significantly affecting Tier 2 constructs in any shape or form would grant Space-Time Manip, like punching away space-times or multiverses or so on and so forth. I believe this will require more input from other staff.
 
PrinceofPein said:
It was ultimately and I that discussed it. Deagon has not been here a while so its understandable.
Empty spaces that are destroyed through attack that travels qualifies for AP. Those done through other means are to be treated as hax or ED and they also get ST manipulation.
Click to expand...
KLOL506 said:
We've been doing that for most of our feats where we don't have proof that they scale to striking strength with a Universal Energy System or so. Such as Storm Feats, weather feats, Creation Feats, so on and so forth. For quite a long time at that.

But, as Ultima had clarified before, whether or not they scale to physicals will depend on a case-by-case basis. UES is one of them.

Also, as we have all discussed here, regardless of whether they scale to physicals or not, regardless of whether they are combat-applicable or not, they will still be indexable.


This is kinda iffy, as that would imply significantly affecting Tier 2 constructs in any shape or form would grant Space-Time Manip, like punching away space-times or multiverses or so on and so forth. I believe this will require more input from other staff.
Click to expand...
@Deagonx @KLOL506 @PrinceofPein What's left to do here?
 
Which staff members think what should be applied here?
 
Basically, granting Space-Time Manip for erasing/destroying/affecting empty spaces plus Tier 2 spaces.
 
That should be fine. Although it should likely be listed as "limited" so that it isn't assumed to encompass other applications of the ability beyond just destruction.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
So, is there anything left to do here, as is?
Click to expand...
KLOL506 said:
We were all waiting for you regarding what we should do with Proposal 2, whether you agreed or disagreed with the tiering of destroying empty space.
Click to expand...
Deagonx said:
Proposal 2: The destruction of a universe-sized space is often tiered based on the content of the space itself. However, if that space is considered empty it should not be considered tierable for AP as nothing has properly been destroyed, and should only be considered range. We tier destruction feats based on the energy required to destroy something, but there is no logical way to tier the destruction or creation of a space in which there is no matter.
Click to expand...
KLOL506 said:
Here be proof. (Several staff members like Abstractions, DarkGrath, Planck and Glassman can attest to this being real, I took these with MS Snipping Tool).

Click to expand...

KLOL506 said:
Honestly tho I would rather wait for Ultima to say it himself in this thread in case people try to call these fake or claim that I edited the comments to make it look like Ultima agreed.
Click to expand...
KLOL506 said:
@Ultima_Reality @DontTalkDT What do you think about granting Space-Time Manipulation to erasure or rather, destruction of empty spaces, plus those of Tier 2 and above?
Click to expand...
KLOL506 said:
This is the only thing left to discuss now.
Click to expand...
@Ultima_Reality @DontTalkDT
 
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