Another Addition/Revision to/for Tier 2

[Lonkitt]

The reasons spoken above are "it is too strict" and as efficiente said "who will not scale to this" is not an argument. Aside that, this is the standard already, so it is not a matter of preference. You are a mod you should be familiar with the system already but I'd copy out my previous reply to clover, the standard already said this is what qualifies for tier 2.

The reasons above aren’t only “it’s too strict”, other arguments have been given. Yes, I’m a mod and I’m very familiar with the system and what qualifies for what. You’re undermining what I’m saying

I gave my opinion. I disagree. Don’t invalidate votes. What you’re doing right now is a violation which I’m feeling is quite biased

 

[PrinceofPein]

You can't simply invalidate staff votes because you find them insufficient, excuse my comment, but that's a violation. Also, it is an eye of perspective if you find it good or bad reason, so this is a bit subjective to conclude to remove his vote unless his reasons are on personal level.

"I think it is too strict and some of the characters I know will not qualify" is a personal level and not logical hence the reason why I said it is invalid.

The reasons above aren’t only “it’s too strict”, other arguments have been given. Yes, I’m a mod and I’m very familiar with the system and what qualifies for what. You’re undermining what I’m saying

Provide another reason that was said above aside that it is too strict, tag those said reason. I'd wait.

I can my opinion. I disagree. Don’t invalidate votes. What you’re doing right now is a violation which I’m feeling is quite biased

You want to talk to me about bias? In fact the second point has no opposition currently. Deonment said it is not for tier 2 and above, which obviously according to my OP, the second point is for tier 3, so I dont know what he is arguing if he agrees that it is only for tier 3 and below.
So how can you disagree for reason above if there is literally no reason above?
And what you are doing is also a violation, you are supposed to read things to evaluate them and not just come here and agree with people you like.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@AKM sama @Celestial_Pegasus @Planck69 @Theglassman12 @LephyrTheRevanchist @Lonkitt @Qawsedf234 @Abstractions @Sir_Ovens @ByAsura @Starter_Pack @Just_a_Random_Butler Your opinions here would be appreciated.

Not interested. Apologies.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Either count Lonkitt's vote, or you'll be engaging in blatant vote manipulation. That simple

Why did I come back here?

 

[Lonkitt]

"I think it is too strict and some of the characters I know will not qualify" is a personal level and not logical hence the reason why I said it is invalid.

Pein. That’s not the reason I’m disagreeing. I’m disagreeing for the other reasons provided above. Stop trying to twist my argument

Provide another reason that was said above aside that it is too strict, tag those said reason. I'd wait.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara and Deonment provided ample reasoning as to why this shouldn’t be applied

You want to talk to me about bias? In fact the second point has no opposition currently. Deonment said it is not for tier 2 and above, which obviously according to my OP, the second point is for tier 3, so I dont know what he is arguing if he agrees that it is only for tier 3 and below.
So how can you disagree for reason above if there is literally no reason above?
And what you are doing is also a violation, you are supposed to read things to evaluate them and not just come here and agree with people you like.

What? How am I committing a violation? I read your thread, do you have any solid proof that I didn’t? I wouldn’t throw out accusations like that unless you’re spying on me with 4K cameras

I don’t keep a list with me of “users I like” and instantly side with them. Hell, I’ve barely interacted with Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara and Deonment

 

[Deagonx]

- Destruction of empty spaces are not tiering applicable since what we give ratings to is the amount of energy needed to destroy/create or affect certain amount of matter. Hence, there is no logical way to tier the creation or destruction of a space in which there is no matter

I do think we need to reconsider how we treat the destruction of empty spaces. It has no analogue to any real-world concept and thus is just generally equated to the destruction of all of the matter inside of the universe more or less. But do we have a good reason to believe that destroying a basketball sized pocket dimension is roughly equivalent to destroying a basketball-sized object? I am not so sure. Similarly, destroying a giant empty space may or may not require a certain level of power, it could correlate completely randomly to whatever that author has in mind, since there is no real world basis for the estimate.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I will say, @PrinceofPein , tone it down. You're pretty much teetering on the line of a violation.

If a staff member evaluates that some concerns are valid, then their points should be counted. If you consider that a staff member isn't performing their duty correctly, simply take it with an HR member. Do not bring these accusations to the thread, as you pretty much are clogging it on your own.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Pein. That’s not the reason I’m disagreeing. I’m disagreeing for the other reasons provided above. Stop trying to twist my argument


Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara and Deonment provided ample reasoning as to why this shouldn’t be applied

The only Fujiwara reason is that it is too strict, so how am I twisting your arguments, when I am telling you want Fuji said word for word?
I thought I was crazy and read the thread again and all he kept saying was that it is too strict and nobody will qualify to which he provided pages and I told him those who can qualify.
This was deonment reason

You do realize that if you merge two timelines present to future, that is still affecting an infinite 4D hypervolume since we presume timelines are infinite, and tier 2 and up is based on affecting a volume, meaning that this standard simply just doesn't work by mathematical or physical metrics

He is saying to be tier 2, you need to affect an infinite 4D volume. Which is what I am also saying here, this is already accepted and I am just stating it. To be tier 2 you need to affect infinite 4D volume and not just 3D space, so while his post does not make a complete sense it does says my point here.

What? How am I committing a violation? I read your thread, do you have any solid proof that I didn’t? I wouldn’t throw out accusations like that unless you’re spying on me with 4K cameras

You literally said you disagree with point two FRA and there has been no reason abive provided, deonknet said it does not work with tier 2 and my second point has nothing to do with tier 2 so I don't know where he got that.
And you agreed with it, which was why I said you disagreed cause you want to, since his reply has nothing to do with my OP.

I don’t keep a list with me of “users I like” and instantly side with them. Hell, I’ve barely interacted with Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara and Deonment

I cant say, I am also not biased towards anything, just objective.
Anyway, who is what is derailing and I apologize if I came out harsh.

I do think we need to reconsider how we treat the destruction of empty spaces. It has no analogue to any real-world concept and thus is just generally equated to the destruction of all of the matter inside of the universe more or less. But do we have a good reason to believe that destroying a basketball sized pocket dimension is roughly equivalent to destroying a basketball-sized object? I am not so sure. Similarly, destroying a giant empty space may or may not require a certain level of power, it could correlate completely randomly to whatever that author has in mind, since there is no real world basis for the estimate.

Thank you. The current reason for 3-A is "destruction of all matter inside a universe sized space" but for empty spaces that there is no matter, 3-A does not work.

 

[Lonkitt]

The only Fujiwara reason is that it is too strict, so how am I twisting your arguments, when I am telling you want Fuji said word for word?
I thought I was crazy and read the thread again and all he kept saying was that it is too strict and nobody will qualify to which he provided pages and I told him those who can qualify.
This was deonment reason

Have you not read Fuji’s other posts….? Do I seriously need to quote each one of them?

I’m starting to feel like you haven’t gone over each of the counterpoints with much clarity

You literally said you disagree with point two FRA and there has been no reason abive provided, deonknet said it does not work with tier 2 and my second point has nothing to do with tier 2 so I don't know where he got that.
And you agreed with it, which was why I said you disagreed cause you want to, since his reply has nothing to do with my OP.

-Disagreeing with points FRA is not a violation
-You keep saying Deon’s post isn’t relevant to the OP even though it absolutely is. He didn’t just feel the need to talk about what he did in this thread for no reason

I cant say, I am also not biased towards anything, just objective.
Anyway, who is what is derailing and I apologize if I came out harsh.

You quite literally said I didn’t read the OP and was agreeing with people I liked. It isn’t derailing, you were making accusations as a means to manipulate votes

 

[KLOL506]

Anyways, for Post 1, I disagree for the reasons mentioned by Clover, Mad_Dog and Deonment. Way too strict for comfort.

Like, if we already have prior evidence of the universes/realms being separate space-times, and then there's a statement of "entire universes being merged" or "entire realms being merged", then that should be that, we shouldn't need further statements of "They got merged across all of time/past, present and future" if we already know the terms "realm" or "universe" refers to "separate space-times" or there is evidence pointing towards that direction (Of course, the realms/universes being separate space-times should be judged on a verse-by-verse, case-by-case basis but after that everything else I stated above applies). It's effectively pedantic at this point, the way you worded your OP.

As for Post 2, I assume this is only for 3-A and below? It should not apply to High 3-A and above.

This will be my only response here.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Have you not read Fuji’s other posts….? Do I seriously need to quote each one of them?

I’m starting to feel like you haven’t gone over each of the counterpoints with much clarity

You dont need to quote everything just quote a single one that has a reason other than "it is too strict"

-Disagreeing with points FRA is not a violation
-You keep saying Deon’s post isn’t relevant to the OP even though it absolutely is. He didn’t just feel the need to talk about what he did in this thread for no reason

If you think me talking about tier 3 and hom talking about tier 2 is relevant to each other then I can safely assume you have no idea what we are talking about and that is okay and where I said your bias comes from, I added your vote for point one

You quite literally said I didn’t read the OP and was agreeing with people I liked. It isn’t derailing, you’re making accusations as a means to manipulate votes

Yes you did not, you said fra for point 2, even though it has no disagreement so what am I supposed to think?

Anyways, for Post 1, I disagree for the reasons mentioned by Clover, Mad_Dog and Deonment. Way too strict for comfort.

Like, if we already have evidence of the universes/realms being separate space-times, and then there's a statement of "entire universes being merged" or "entire realms being merged", then that should be that, we shouldn't need further statements of "They got merged across all of time/past, present and future" if we already know the terms "realm" or "universe" refers to "separate space-times" or there is evidence pointing towards that direction (Of course, the realms/universes being separate space-times should be judged on a verse-by-verse, case-by-case basis but after that everything else I stated above applies). It's effectively pedantic at this point, the way you worded your OP.

Again, too strict is a personal preference and besides that is the standard for tier 2, which if memory serves me right, you followed till the end. If you have proof that only the present spaces are being merge then that is not tier 2, as joining together two 3D spaces does not require 4D energy.
Literally written in the standards already, this is not something new, I am applying it to merging. by your logic, it takes more energy to merge two 3D spaces than to destroy a timeline in its entirety, anyway the standards are clear on it already, unless you change that your preference do not mean much here.

the standard already has that but of course you never bothered with it

Characters or objects that are capable of significantly affecting,[1] creating, and/or destroying an area of space qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums (the entire past, present and future of 3-dimensional space) of a universal scale.

Do you understand this? affecting a space that is qualitatively superior to a universe sized 3-D space, 2 3-D spaces combined are not qualitatively superior to 3-D
That is not all, let us take a look at the FAQ

the affected area either has to be a large four dimensional space, be qualitatively superior to three dimensional spaces or, most commonly, be an entire space-time continuum.

two spaces that are 3-D are not a large 4-D space.
More from the FAQ

The latter means that all of the three-dimensional space of the universe has to be destroyed or created, at each moment in time. I.e. the entire timeline has to be destroyed.

"each moment in time" not just anytime

Now another quote from the universe page

the entire timeline must be destroyed or created, taking into account all moments in time.

These are not new standards, I cannot stress this enough, they are literally everywhere

As for Post 2, I assume this is only for 3-A and below? It should not apply to High 3-A and above.

High 3-A and below

 

[KLOL506]

Again, too strict is a personal preference and besides that is the standard for tier 2, which if memory serves me right, you followed till the end.

I suggested changes be made to the standards in that thread, which were then accepted and you yourself conceded to.

In case you haven't seen the thread itself, you should know that "past, present and future" is just one way out of many others to prove Low 2-C and 2-C stuff, as that was the stuff that we agreed upon.

If you have proof that only the present spaces are being merge then that is not tier 2, as joining together two 3D spaces does not require 4D energy.

I don't get why you would assume it to be a 3D merge by default in this edge-case scenario when:

1. The verse shows evidence that the universes/realms in the verse are explicitly referred to as "space-time continuum" (Or have evidence that confirms them to be so) so when someone utters the word "universe/realm" in this case, it would then in turn automatically refer to all of its contents, not just the space inside of it.

2. Then, when said "universes/realms" are stated to merge into one whole unit, we can just use the prior evidence from point one to easily deduce that the two merged at the space-time level without having to go through the pedantry of having to show statements for "merging at all points in time/merging throughout the past, present and future".

Again, this is for verses where we already have clear-cut proof that these "universes/realms" are confirmed to be spatiotemporally separate.

Literally written in the standards already, this is not something new, I am applying it to merging. By your logic, it takes more energy to merge two 3D spaces than to destroy a timeline in its entirety, anyway the standards are clear on it already, unless you change that your preference do not mean much here.

And I am telling you, you literally forgot that "past, present and future" is just one way of getting Tier 2 as we clearly concluded in that thread where we applied the standards. Since all of that is in the standards, why bother repeating it all over again and then wording it in this needlessly nitpicky way?

 

[Lonkitt]

If you think me talking about tier 3 and hom talking about tier 2 is relevant to each other then I can safely assume you have no idea what we are talking about and that is okay and where I said your bias comes from, I added your vote for point one

I’ve been involved with several Tier 2 related threads, so I’d appreciate it if you weren’t condescending and treated me like I didn’t know what this thread was about

Even if I didn’t know what you were talking about, you immediately jumped to the excuse that “well, he must have a liking for the people who disagreed”. That is not a logical conclusion

Yes you did not, you said fra for point 2, even though it has no disagreement so what am I supposed to think?

By that logic, Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara and Deonment weren’t disagreeing

You dont need to quote everything just quote a single one that has a reason other than "it is too strict"

If you insist

Pein, there is an inherent contradiction between the ideas of "a rule that outlines what you need to qualify for 2-C merging feats" and "nobody on the wiki qualifies for a 2-C merging feat"; If the latter is true, which it would be according to you, then the former is deeply flawed and should be fixed.

I will again point to type 5 acausality, where we had standards on how to get it, but nobody fit those standards so we removed them. Can you prove that this will be any different?

The part about them being explicitly confirmed to merge the past, present, and future, not just two universes.


If no verse here would qualify under these new standards, then the standards are bad and should not be applied. We've done this song and dance before with type 5 acausality, so let's not repeat that, okay?

Except this presents yet another contradiction, where the mention of a time axis (a timeline) makes the feat valid, but we treat a universe as all of space and time, so it'd be equally valid under the same logic; Either a time axis lets the feat qualify or it doesn't. As of right now, your distinction between timeline and universe is wholly arbitrary.

So what's the alternative? That any given universe lacks time until proven otherwise?

That's also... a comically bad comparison. I don't even know where to start with that.

lol
Here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here. Ten separate examples, limited only by my lack of ability to care any more than that.

Here you go

 

[KLOL506]

For the record, I read all those standards that you posted Pein, but you seem to have missed my point.

Why in God's name would we assume these "universes/realms" to be merged at the 3D level automatically if the verse clearly states that "universes/realms" explicitly refer to separate space-times (This is assuming they have qualified for all the standards we have right now) whenever those terms are used?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Got permission forom Lonkitt here

Merging of the two or more universal spaces that is not done across all of time does not qualify for tier 2. The merging of two or more universes qualifies for tier 2 only when the merge is done across all of the time i.e. the past, present and the future are merged to become one.

This would only be true if the spaces aren't spatiotemporally separated.
meaning it's a pocket dimension or it's another dimension that falls under the same timeline as the original

saying "not done across all of time" is an unnecessary addition. especially if said universes are already confirmed in separate timelines. It is impossible to merge it without affecting the timeline itself of each universe when you merge them as it is impossible for both futures on both universes to exist at the same time in a single timeline
When a moment in time the merge happens two timelines will combine to create 1 future in the current merged timeline nullifying or changing whatever future in separate timelines that exist into the one that the merged universe will now have.
If we assume it to not merge the entire timeline that would only add the content of another universe to the other. that's not really merging two universes in a sense and more of a merging of the content of the universe together and as Fuji said here.

Except this presents yet another contradiction, where the mention of a time axis (a timeline) makes the feat valid, but we treat a universe as all of space and time, so it'd be equally valid under the same logic; Either a time axis lets the feat qualify or it doesn't. As of right now, your distinction between timeline and universe is wholly arbitrary.

the distinction between universe and timeline is arbitrary to suddenly default it to not including time because it wasn't stated to include them despite multiple implications that timeline exists in the universe is very dishonest to the feat itself.

It wouldn't count if it explicitly said that they only merged the content of the universe which would then require this statement to be treated as such. defaulting merging into only its content is equivalent to a leap of logic making that the default assumption when that isn't the case. If both universes cease to exist independently and only exist on the merged one. that alone is enough reason for it to be treated as affecting the entire timeline

 

[PrinceofPein]

I suggested changes be made to the standards in that thread, which were then accepted and you yourself conceded to.

In case you haven't seen the thread itself, you should know that "past, present and future" is just one way out of many others to prove Low 2-C and 2-C stuff, as that was the stuff that we agreed upon.

I made the thread what do you mean I have not seen it? Tch tch.
Literally all of them has to do with timeline or space-time continuums, which is still all of 3-D space of a universe through past, present and future.

I don't get why you would assume it to be a 3D merge by default in this edge-case scenario when:

1. The verse shows evidence that the universes/realms in the verse are explicitly referred to as "space-time continuum" (Or have evidence that confirms them to be so) so when someone utters the word "universe/realm" in this case, it would then in turn automatically refer to all of its contents, not just the space inside of it.

2. Then, when said "universes/realms" are stated to merge into one whole unit, we can just use the prior evidence from point one to easily deduce that the two merged at the space-time level without having to go through the pedantry of having to show statements for "merging at all points in time/merging throughout the past, present and future".

Again, this is for verses where we already have clear-cut proof that these "universes/realms" are confirmed to be spatiotemporally separate.

This is literally what my OP is referring to, so why are you arguing with me exactly?
Like my OP is about merging of space-Time continuums, which is just the blanket term for "all of past, present and future" and if that has not been established previously or said to be a contained universe or a bubbled universe, then it is 3-A.

And I am telling you, you literally forgot that "past, present and future" is just one way of getting Tier 2 as we clearly concluded in that thread where we applied the standards. Since all of that is in the standards, why bother repeating it all over again and then wording it in this needlessly nitpicky way?

It is not nitpicky, though, it is what tier 2 entails. We have no standard for merging and there is no harm in creating one

 

[CloverDragon03]

Definitely siding more with KLOL on this, I wasn't there for the last Tier 2 thread (I don't think so anyway) but it seems like needing explicit mentions of "across all past, present, and future" is just one way to qualify and this thread's trying to make it the only way to qualify.

 

[Antvasima]

@AKM sama @DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr._Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Agnaa @Just_a_Random_Butler @Planck69 @DarkGrath

What do you think about these suggestions?

 

[KLOL506]

This is literally what my OP is referring to, so why are you arguing with me exactly?
Like my OP is about merging of space-Time continuums, which is just the blanket term for "all of past, present and future" and if that has not been established previously or said to be a contained universe or a bubbled universe, then it is 3-A.

Oh really? Then what is this?

Here is a guideline that I think should be added to the timeline/tier section of the FAQ or the Universe page.
- Merging of the two or more universal spaces that is not done across all of time does not qualify for tier 2. The merging of two or more universes qualifies for tier 2 only when the merge is done across all of time i.e. the past, present and the future are merged to become one.

Because that does not give me an impression that your OP was actually referring to what I said. What you are asking for, is that the merge should require a statement for "merge being done across all of time i.e. the past, present and future" even when the universes/realms are stated in-verse (In accordance with our standards) to be separate space-times and the term "universe/realm" in that verse will always refer to that and not just the physical space.

In which case, your OP is worded very, very poorly and I'd urge you to change your wording of the OP accordingly so that it sounds exactly what I just stated, if what you state is true.

It is not nitpicky, though, it is what tier 2 entails. We have no standard for merging and there is no harm in creating one

Refer to the above part kindly please, thank you.

 

[Deagonx]

They are still valid, they are just tier 3 if it is joining of two universal spaces alone and tier 2 if it is joining of two space time continuums.

I feel like there might be some misunderstanding about what Pein is trying to say.

Essentially his stance is: Our current standards are that universal feats only reach Tier 2 when the universes are considered space time continuums rather than just large spaces. Therefore, combinging two spaces should only be Tier 2 if those spaces are considered space time continuums.

What people think his stance is appears to be: Merging two space time continuums is only Tier 2 if its explicitly stated to occur across past present and future, which I think is not actually his stance. Pein can you clarify?

 

[KLOL506]

I made the thread what do you mean I have not seen it? Tch tch.

You say that and yet you ignored the actual qualifications for it to be viable?

Literally all of them has to do with timeline or space-time continuums, which is still all of 3-D space of a universe through past, present and future.

You don't need all of them stated in a single neat line to qualify for Tier 2, that was the entire goddamn point I had in that thread.

There were at least 3 or 4 criteria I mentioned in that thread, which, if at least one or two of them were fulfilled, would guarantee you Tier 2 straight outta the gate. The "past, present and future" stuff was one of those criteria that could get you a surefire Tier 2 rating.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree more with KLOL here.

 

[KLOL506]

Essentially his stance is: Our current standards are that universal feats only reach Tier 2 when the universes are considered space time continuums rather than just large spaces. Therefore, combinging two spaces should only be Tier 2 if those spaces are considered space time continuums.

This is literally what I'm talking about. IDK why you'd need further statements of "merged across all of time i.e. merged all of past, present and future" if the realms being merged in question were already confirmed in-verse (And in accordance to the standards) to be separate space-time continuums. Pein's OP, as it currently stands, is not at all worded that way.

Basically it all boils down to this.

1. Universe/Realms in said verse are confirmed (With appropriate evidence qualifying for site standards) to be separate space-times/spatio-temporally separate/spatially separate with different pasts, presents and futures/whatever, hereby effectively confirming what the terms Universe/Realms mean in said verse.

2. The verse then mentions a merger of these Universe/Realms happening or having happened (Which, with prior evidence above are confirmed to be separate space-times)

3. Thus the merger is Tier 2.

Basically, another statement saying "merged across all of time i.e. merged all of past, present and future" is therefore unnecessary and pedantic beyond this point.

 

[Antvasima]

For the record, according to our rules, for safety reasons only system administrators and bureaucrats have voting rights for wiki policy revisions, but other staff members are obviously free to argue for their causes during such discussions.

 

[Deagonx]

Basically, another statement saying "merged across all of time i.e. merged all of past, present and future" is therefore unnecessary and pedantic beyond this point.

My suspicion is that Pein actually agrees with you on this point, but I'm waiting for his clarification.

 

[KLOL506]

My suspicion is that Pein actually agrees with you on this point, but I'm waiting for his clarification.

If Pein does agree with what I said, then Pein worded it very poorly in the OP, because it doesn't reflect what I said at all.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I am personally currently leaning towards agreeing with KLOL and Fujiwara here.

 

[Theglassman12]

If the universes are already stated to be separate space times, I don’t see why the hell we need it to be specified that they’re merged across the past present and future when the fact they’re literal space times in a universal scale is self explanatory on what they are. Count me in for disagree.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I feel like there might be some misunderstanding about what Pein is trying to say.

Essentially his stance is: Our current standards are that universal feats only reach Tier 2 when the universes are considered space time continuums rather than just large spaces. Therefore, combinging two spaces should only be Tier 2 if those spaces are considered space time continuums.

What people think his stance is appears to be: Merging two space time continuums is only Tier 2 if its explicitly stated to occur across past present and future, which I think is not actually his stance. Pein can you clarify?

I think people are just on the big words.
They said, it should be space-time continuum and the meaning of space time continuums is past, present and future of a space. So yes we are indeed saying the same thing but I think they just do not like the bluntness of it.

I still clarify further below, I guess the OP is too simple and people do not like the sound of it.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

This is literally what I'm talking about. IDK why you'd need further statements of "merged across all of time i.e. merged all of past, present and future" if the realms being merged in question were already confirmed in-verse (And in accordance to the standards) to be separate space-time continuums. Pein's OP, as it currently stands, is not at all worded that way.

Basically it all boils down to this.

1. Universe/Realms in said verse are confirmed (With appropriate evidence qualifying for site standards) to be separate space-times/spatio-temporally separate/spatially separate with different pasts, presents and futures/whatever, hereby effectively confirming what the terms Universe/Realms mean in said verse.

2. The verse then mentions a merger of these Universe/Realms happening or having happened (Which, with prior evidence above are confirmed to be separate space-times)

3. Thus the merger is Tier 2.

Basically, another statement saying "merged across all of time i.e. merged all of past, present and future" is therefore unnecessary and pedantic beyond this point.

I agree with this.

 

[KLOL506]

As for Post 2, consider me in disagreement with including High 3-A and above, IMHO it should only be for 3-A and below. I will wait for more staff input on that regard.

 

[Deagonx]

They said, it should be space-time continuum and the meaning of space time continuums is past, present and future of a space. So yes we are indeed saying the same thing but I think they just do not like the bluntness of it

Pein, I don't say this out of disrespect, but I think the problem is more that you are not always an effective communicator.

So, I'd like to ask more concretely:

Do you believe that the merging of two universes, which are independently confirmed to be spacetime continuums, is tier 2?

And if so, is the point you are making that the merging of two universal sized spaces that aren't confirmed to be spacetime continuums, only tier 3?

 

[KLOL506]

I think people are just on the big words.
They said, it should be space-time continuum and the meaning of space time continuums is past, present and future of a space. So yes we are indeed saying the same thing but I think they just do not like the bluntness of it

You're not making it blunt at all, you're just making it too roundabout and confusing and making it sound way more nitpicky than it actually is.

But enough about the fixating of words on that front.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It should be noted that even space-time has energy. Any type of matter is still a body of fusion energy that binds atoms and molecules together which in turn are bodies of fusion energy binding sub-atomic particles together. While space and time may not have mass, or atoms, what they do still have is quantum particles. And there is energy in space-time, but unquantifiable amount of it impossible to calculate and probably very minimal per volume. But Infinite amount of it would still be infinite as dividing an infinite number by a finite number would still be infinite.

So I also agree with KLOL regarding Post 2.

 

[PrinceofPein]

For the record.
If your verse already states or establishes the universes to be contained space-times i.e. spatio-temporally separate, then combining both of them is a tier 2 feat, that is not my argument.
This is a case where we have nothing established, and then we have a universe merging feat, if there is no prove that it is done across all of time, then it is not tier 2.

We are literally saying the same thing, I think the part of the OP that is weirding everyone out is "past, present and future" but that is the dictionary meaning of a space-time continuum.
So essentially a merge that is not done to space-time continuum and we have no reason to believe so should be just tier 3, that is my argument here.
@KLOL506 I hope that clarifies that we are practically saying the same thing, one in American english and the other in British.

 

[Deagonx]

If your verse already states or establishes the universes to be contained space-times i.e. spatio-temporally separate, then combining both of them is a tier 2 feat, that is not my argument.
This is a case where we have nothing established, and then we have a universe merging feat, if there is no prove that it is done across all of time, then it is not tier 2.

Okay, then this was largely a problem of communication.

We're currently 75 comments in and I'd say the bulk of the discussion revolved around this miscommunication, so with your permission, I'd prefer to close this and post a new one with more clarity on those matters.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Okay, then this was largely a problem of communication.

We're currently 75 comments in and I'd say the bulk of the discussion revolved around this miscommunication, so with your permission, I'd prefer to close this and post a new one with more clarity on those matters.

Please do close it.
Do you want to make a new one or I should?

 

[Deagonx]

Do you want to make a new one or I should?

I'll post it but you can comment.