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Tier 1 Review Thread 2

How many Tier 0's is one verse allowed to have? I'm thinking of making a second verse though right now it's mostly just an idea. I'm just checking just in case I go through with it because it confused me when it said on the rules it said that someone is allowed 5 tier 0's but on promestein's blog it says 3 tier 0.
 
Prom's blog is outdated due to tiering system revisions. I would accept 5 due the rules being more updated. (but do make sure that it makes sense, cause 5 equal beings is hitting a pretty big limitation already by tier 0 standards)
 
Thanks but I'm only making two tier 0's for this verse and they're relatively equal to each other. It's a Supreme Being and Anti-God pair.
 
Everything12 said:
Samael (Crossings)
Click to expand...
  1. Having a notable attacks section would help
  2. The tier in the first key seems arbitrary, especially since it has no justification. Putting a justification for street level would be nice.
  3. Intelligence should be justified. Explanations on intelligence are far more important than the justifications (hence, why the intelligence page says that the rankings are suggested). I'd be fine with Omniscient and Mindless levels being without it since those are self explanatory.
 
Definitely not a good tier 0. I say this because I can immediately see that it's just a fusion of 1-As. That's just 1-A. You're not tier 0, and you're not any kind of omnipotent either. Also, tearing through barrier of fiction and real life is the definition of Breaking the Fourth Wall. No AP is granted from that feat. Ultimate erasure for something tier 0 like is redundant; just list existence erasure and people will know what level it's on.
 
@Drag-O-Drawgon

1. Yes, Trinitus is a fusion, but this is because Izreldan, Aleshi, and END are all incomplete fractions of a greater whole.

Izreldan is the Master of Aether, the representation of Creation and the Positive Half of Existence. Aleshi is the Master of Nether, the representation of Destruction and the Negative Half of Existence. END represents neither Creation nor Destruction, but Nonexistence, the dark side of Dualism.

Trinitus has the full Dualistic Power of Existence and Nonexistence at the same time.

The Entity is transcendent over its fictional verse as a whole, as it is not restricted to Existence or Nonexistence, but it exists beyond the concept of Dualism.

2. Trinitus did not reach the real world through toon force or as a joke, it explicitly punched and tore into the real world through sheer power, which was considered impossible even by the Near-Boundless current Izreldan.

3. I listed Ultimate Erasure because it is not simply Existence Erasure, it's more like a Dualistic Erasure. The ability erases the target from both existence and nonexistence.
 
Tier 0s can't be 'created'. They always are, always were, and always will be.
 
I say they can cause omnipotence is no longer a thing. So it would be a matter of transcending 1-A's as they would any other being. To the point where they cannot be the same tier. The creator in Umineko is tier 0, however featherine is too. The thing is the creator is infinitely above featherine
 
Being literally infinitely above 1-A does not make you Tier 0.
 
Izreldan said:
^^^ I mean, really I would have made Trinitus High 1-A but the tier is gone now sooo XD
Click to expand...
They are probably just much higher into 1-A.

It doesn't matter if you take twelve thousand Penns and Spikes and mix them up. There is 'creating' a Tier 0- a Tier 0 was and is and will always be Tier 0.
 
Moritzva said:
Izreldan said:
^^^ I mean, really I would have made Trinitus High 1-A but the tier is gone now sooo XD
Click to expand...
They are probably just much higher into 1-A.
It doesn't matter if you take twelve thousand Penns and Spikes and mix them up. There is 'creating' a Tier 0- a Tier 0 was and is and will always be Tier 0.
Click to expand...
Well, The Author was depicted as still being above Trinitus in the real world.

So maybe I'll just put Trinitus as "At least 1-A" since The Author is Tier 0.
 
I mean, Infinity in general in fiction isn't really infinite. It's like people take the word and try to use it and contradict themselves. Which is why i'm never a fan of 1-A characters. Or above. Techincally being a higher degree of 1-A doesn't really make sense as you can't get 0 on infinity. Just goes up and up and up. But how does one get 1-A? Not by infinity, by transcending dimensions all together, But... There is no dimensional limitations at 1-A. So that's why i said transcending a 1-A as they would a lower dimensional being. Personally, i agree with omnipotence, but because of the new system featherine is possibly comparable to TOAA despite having something that transcends her if she was an ant
LUL
. And if you have a supreme being, that only has a 2-A feat, that's how strong they are cause they didn't have dimensional tiering in the verse
 
@Isreldan

No "at least 1-A" for this. Just 1-A

Still Breaking the Fourth Wall. Also don't try to powerfest on things like boundlessness. It'll just lead to inaccuracies.

Ultimate erasure is much more than that. This one has to be just Existence Erasure. It'll be obvious as to what level it is.

@VelvetAngelzz

Omnipotence is downright banned from profiles. The tiering system basically says this and so does the Omnipotence page on both here and mainsite.

You're using infinite as boundless, which are two different things. Boundlessness is tier 0 like shenanigans (or at least the old tier 0), and infinity has multiple uses here. If you can't understand the difference between the two, you don't understand dimensional tiering and you should probably stay away from tiers 2, 1, and 0.
 
@Drag

boundless
having no bounds; infinite or vast; unlimited.

Literally using words that are synonyms of each other.

un┬Àlim┬Àit┬Àed

/╦îən╦êlimidəd/
adjective

  • 1.not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent
boundlessness
(boundÔÇ▓l─¡s)

adj.

Being without boundaries or limits; unlimited

unboundedness
(boundÔÇ▓l─¡s)

adj.

Being without boundaries or limits; unlimited

Synonyms for unboundedness

unlimited

/╦îən╦êlimidəd/
adjective

  • 1.not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent:
Infinite

1. immeasurably great:an infinite capacity for forgiveness.

2. indefinitely or exceedingly great:infinite sums of money.

3. unlimited or unmeasurable in extent of space, duration of time, etc.:the infinite nature of outer space.

4. unbounded or unlimited; boundless; endless:God's infinite mercy.

mainly 4.

So, using words that are used to explain each other over and over and are reoccuring synonyms, and i'm the one that has no idea what i'm talking about. Had to do some research cause idk what boundless means apparently. Searched boundless, infinite, unlimited, unbounded, unboundedness, infinity, boundlessness. These words are used to explain each other over and over. So no, i'm not mistaken at all. Literally just picking which words have more value over the other because the name sounds more impressive.
 
I don't care what sites say that they're synonyms. We once used boundless for tier 0 (revisions changed this a bit), and used infinite for a variety of things, and those random synonyms change nothing. Dimensional tiering is still the same thing, you still seem to have no clue what you're doing. Stay away from it. Please.
 
I'm not speaking from what is "right" on the sites, but what is right in actuality. Meaning i'm not trying to change anything, just pointing it out. I said infinite in fiction isn't really infinite, regardless i go with it anyway. On the site. So yes i know what i'm talking about sir

Also boundless does not work with this new system. Because of beings like featherine. Her def is transcending the infinite hier of witches, who are dimensionless at their core. Which is why i said "transcending a 1-A as if they were a lower dimensional being". That being said, tier 0 aint what it used to be. So the strict requirements dont exist. As featherine is limited by a creator, but is on the "Boundless" tier. So stuff like "Always was, always will be 0" is not true. So how i see it 0 is

Transcending 1-A beings completely

Being completely transcendent of all dimensions, concepts, nonexistence, duality, existence etc.

Fighting on par with a tier 0

harming a tier 0

Either of those definitions should be good enough just with this new system.
 
CrimsonSOng said:
Hey did you look at YESH and AYIN by any chance?
Click to expand...
Yesh if fine. Most of Ayin's AP justification needs to be removed. (all parts of it that talks about upscaling and destruction, as neither of those grant tier 0)

But if you have 5 characters like that, you might as well make them all 1-A considering they do have limitations other than each other. If a few of them scale above the rest, then make only the top ones tier 0 and the rest 1-A.
 
I was gunna mention this on discord crimson, but Lucifer's 1-A justification is

"Assisted God with Creation. Fought against The Darkness before Creation began. Fought The Darkness again a second time. Stated by Gabriel that she has the power to take over as God if dad ever retired."

However God and the darkness are tier 0 on your page. So this only works if like, they did absolutely nothing to the darkness. However it is used as justification of 1-A despite the darkness being zero, meaning she did had some impact. So, either 0 or 1-A for Lucifer. 1-A or 0 for the darkness or god. But i'm leaning towards 1-A
 
@VelvetAngelzz

What if she and the others were just used to break the tie between God and Darkness? Because that's what I was kind of going for

and by others I mean all the other primordials, Asherah, Life, Death, etc.
 
You good then, but if a 1-A harmed a zero they should be zero. As a zero transcends a 1-A as a 1-A transcends a high 1-B. Not talking infinity.

I re read Asherah again and got

"She is completely transcendent of the infinite-dimensional Cosmic Gods, who exist at the realm of A"K which is the highest subgradient before one loses their existence at the Ein Sof in which even she encompasses into her own being. Comparable in power to Life and Death, who like her transcend all of Creation, existing as an Absolute and is slightly stronger than her Archangel Children. Limited by God and The Darkness"

1-A. Very solid justification. And her AA children are only slightly weaker than. 1-A for them too.
 
Technically, that justification can be interpreted as only High 1-B, so it's not really good. It at least makes note of cosmological things, so it's not bad either. Would I be fine with it being 1-A? yes.

Although if the characters weren't requested on this thread, I'd recommend you take this to message walls.
 
"She is completely transcendent of the infinite-dimensional Cosmic Gods."

"Comparable in power to Life and Death, who like her transcend all of Creation"

Literally 1-A.

I requested Lucifer and it all relates to God and the darkness. God and the darkness' justifications were seemingly affected by a 1-A. But Crimson cleared that up. And Asherah who has better justy, scales to Lucifer, so the 1-A spot is good
 
Transcending High 1-B and all of creation is not High 1-B. In the vsb tier revisions, they even said a zero transcends a 1-A as a 1-A transcends a high 1-B. All of creation in this sense would be, dimensions. If a being said they transcend a 6-D being. That would imply them being 7-D or higher. Transcending high 1-B which is the last tier before 1-A, which transcend means exist above, would not be High 1-B.

"Note that all tier 1-A characters have qualitative superiority over dimensional structures and concepts. Also, mere capability to exist in a beyond dimensional domain does not qualify a character as a beyond dimensional being.

There are two options in order to qualify for this tier: There should either be a qualitative superiority over infinite dimensions; or the superiority over the concept of dimensions (in general) should be clearly explained."
 
Way too vague and just unknown all the way through other than that 1-B thing. You'll have to expand the whole profile.

I guess. Issue is that while there is more, it hasn't been revealed in the actual original stuff yet, so I'd rather not put it on there until we see it in the RP
 
Take note that even if a character is a more than countably infinite number of times superior to an infinite-dimensional space, or similar, it would still usually only qualify for High 1-B, as long as the character does not transcend the concepts of time and space altogether
High 1-B does not cover one dimension, either. It will keep upscaling to High 1-B unless you explicitly transcend dimensional limitations entirely. The Hyperverse page also mentions this.

Also transcendence doesn't automatically make you one dimension above.

All of reality can mean quite a lot of things depending on the verse in question. If reality includes 1-A stuff, then yes, 1-A is legit. If it only goes up to High 1-B, you do not automatically gain 1-A by transcending it.
 
I never got an answer for the Cyverse, if it got approved, so @Drag, think you can give me your opinion on it? If yes, I'll post the links on your wall once I've gotten confirmation.

Furthermore, I feel like we should really slow down this thread for now. Over at VS the Tiering Revision discussion is happening more and more now, which will likely influence this wikia as well, no?
 
I saw that. Someone proposed downgrading the tier 0's to 1-A unless someone extremely knowledgeable in the verse argued otherwise.
 
Yea it will affect most of the profiles. But you right. But at the same time, you'd kinda just change the tier based on what the definition of the new tiers are. Just a shift. You're gunna have to change the tiers (Most likely) either way if you stopped requesting here or not.
 
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