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Thunder McQueen matches

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I was asked to give input, but not familiar with the character. What's the summary(s) for some of the thread removals?
 
The Haha McQueen ties Joke needs to stop. As he is being put up agaisnt people he never could win. So anyone who is actually outside his tier gets removed, a few people such as Doctor sleep is fine since both are street level. But everything else gets yeeted and a Note on the page possibly to request people not to do fights such as Goku vs McQueen anymore
 
Does McQueen's stand even guarantee death by the way? I mean sure his stand fuckery damages Ermes Costello it seems, who is 8-C+, but given stands do tend to be 8-C+ anyways, why do we assume his stand to work on say, a character an entire tier above, to the same effect? This seems exceptionally NLF considering those propeller thingies don't tend to perfectly imitate the method of death anyhow.

Like, as an example, if a character like Thanos were to just punch and split off McQueen's entire arm, why are we assuming a stand which can only brute force an 8-C+ for his feats can split that arm despite it would requiring a far superior strength level than McQueen's stand can pull off?
 
Mate I'm arguing I don't think it's dura neg, it harms an 8-C+ like it should. Nothing implies it negated her 8-C+ completely for the sake of killing her. It can bypass durability in some scenarios, sure, but it ain't splitting atoms or anything.
 
Put me in the agree list for removing the matches.
 
Highway to Hell isn't dura neg, it's lifting strength. I wanted to make a thread about this proper but I guess I'll just say it here.

It's very explicitly lifting strength because the propellers have to push their target to copy McQueen's death and placement. That being said, Highway to Hell doesn't have feats above 8-C+, so Highway to Hell affecting anyone above that is massive NLF, especially with the case of Superman who has both greater durability and lifting strength.
 
I think we have enough people approving to purge the matches.
 
Alrighty.

As well. @Sir Ovens. Should we make more of that on his page so those kinds of fights don't further happen?
 
I mean it's a straight up revision since it implies HtH has no dura neg, so that'll be removed from Thunder's page

If we're reclassifying it as LS, we need a rating for it, what is the required rating to crush a throat?
 
Sir Ovens said:
Highway to Hell isn't dura neg, it's lifting strength. I wanted to make a thread about this proper but I guess I'll just say it here.
It's very explicitly lifting strength because the propellers have to push their target to copy McQueen's death and placement. That being said, Highway to Hell doesn't have feats above 8-C+, so Highway to Hell affecting anyone above that is massive NLF, especially with the case of Superman who has both greater durability and lifting strength.
Click to expand...
That's completely false. Ermes saw wounds and scars appearing on her without noticing them before. If they were inflicted through raw strength she would have felt it. Also, explain how starvation, poisoning, suffocation, making cuts and scars just appear, etc. Can be done through lifting strength please.

We don't pull the NLF card for any other durability negation user until it hits a higher dimensional level, so unless we are overhauling wiki policy across the site, that's not going away.

Also, about the propellers thing, those don't appear even the majority of the time, and most of the time when they do, they are just visual and contribute nothing to the means of death.
 
Zark2099 said:
Mate I'm arguing I don't think it's dura neg, it harms an 8-C+ like it should. Nothing implies it negated her 8-C+ completely for the sake of killing her. It can bypass durability in some scenarios, sure, but it ain't splitting atoms or anything.
Click to expand...
How would organ failure, bleeding out, spawning cuts, and death replication in general not be durability negation? Also, yes it did. His stand replicates damage and death, but doesn't have uses beyond that (I mean, the location sharing obviously included in the previous usage). Let's say for a moment that for some reason it cannot do damage that extreme. If McQueen's heart explodes on impact from a punch above his tier, then that is going to at the very least make it so his target's heart also ain't beating and he severely damaged.
 
Eh, depends on the death I guess. We know it can induce death in others via things like McQueen simply starving to death so it's a bit more than just a simple attempt to recreate McQueen's situation via physical statistics given even starvation is fair game to it.

Case by case, judge the situation and deduce if HTH is going to being be negating durability in that context or not.

Something like hanging I guess would fall under physical application, but not all deaths would. It's up to you to use your judgement to deduce if it's actually doing so depending on the situation.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
snip
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Is that ever shown to happen explicitly like that? That an organ just randomly exploded to replicate the thing without a single showcase of the propellers or another visual attacking it? If so, gg, if not, if not, you're NLFing hard with these hypotheticals that never happened. If I wanna suppose I can make 7 new Tier 0s that way.

I recall the only time we do see it attempting to replicate physical damage is through brute force, so why are we assuming a stand can replicate physicals something 100x stronger than it's best showcase?

Also Chariot, you're defining the stands ability to bypass durability, not negate it. I agree it can very well bypass durability under certain conditions, why are we assuming it negates something a bajillion times stronger than it like Superman when it's best feat is 8-C+ and it has little to no statement of replicating some damage no matter how strong it is.
 
Dude, what in the actual hell are you talking about. Yes, it has, or it was going to. It was replicating frying his internal organs for example, the exploding thing was me being hyperbolic, not literal. My point is, even if you wanna try and say that the absolute most damaging shit like atomization may not be fully replicated, at the very least they will be forced into not functioning, as it has already shown the ability to fry them into not functioning. I have no idea what tier 0 has to do with working within the bounds of what has been shown.

Well you recall wrong my friend. Shit like scars and cuts got replicated on Ermes by just coming into existence, to the point that she didn't even feel pain, and only got shocked when she saw more appearing. She even got scars from way in the past that he had added to her wrists, which is not something you can get through brute force, unless you feel like giving Highway to hell baseless time acceleration, but that's the only real alternative in that case.

It doesn't need to be the full replication, if we even grant what you are saying. Outside of possible high enough Regenerationn as a counter, any thing that can't counter your heart being diced or an equivalent amount of damage it's still killing. You would 4 billion percent notice something slicing your arm repeatedly over time, but what you wouldnt notice is wounds being replicated via sympathetically making wounds appear already inflicted. Think of the way that Lancer of Black creates the state of someone being impaled as opposed go impaling them. McQueen did not cut Ermes, he created the state of Ermes being cut, if that makes any sense. The previous does not bypass durability, the latter does.
 
Replicating a death =/= death manip

Replicating starving isn't the same as inducing death upon a person. If anything, it's biological manip at it's best. Scars appearing isn't outside the realm of biological manip.

Again, physical force needs to be replicated, and thus far, HtH has not replicated any strength above 8-C+.
 
It is death manip technically, but it's not the kinda of "ooga booga I diagnose you with instant death" death hax that you often see. I do understand what you are trying to say tho.

I think you do make a good point here, but I wanna make sure I'm not being misunderstood. Describing most of what HtH as biological manip since it replicates factors that cause a biological shut down is acceptable to me, but it still stands that it bypasses durability

Why does it need to be replicated via force tho? If it was just an issue of brute force, then the Electricity frying organs wouldn't have worked. Emporio explained this very well, if it is just an issue of Electricity then the body's natural resistance to electricity won't actually have it be fatal, but McQueen used salt water to make sure it would fry his internal organs into not functioning. This proves it isn't just about brute forcing it, since Ermes herself wasn't covered in salt water at all, yet she felt the effects as if she was. In addition, the wounds appearing without actually cutting her again proves that it bypasses durability and has nothing to do with brute force
 
What's even going on here now? Thought we'd reach a conclusion by now.
 
They trying to say it shouldn't be able to effect people beyond 8-C+ despite that standard being applied to literally no other offensive hax user on this wiki
 
Wounds appearing on a character of the same strength level is not a basis to assume it is negating durability since you can't really prove that if The Thing cuts you, a human, with a knife using average human level force, the same damage would be be reflected upon him too.

Same for passing electricity through the body, which is a good conductor of electricity. You don't need salt water to have electricity pass through you. Maybe only the process/cause is being reflected, its result/effect could still depend on the other individual.

Unless you have scans that show otherwise?
 
Ermes and McQueen aren't of the same strength tho, where did you get that idea? Also, HtH replicates damage that cannot be replicated through raw AP, and it does not actually cut people, it just makes the cuts themselves appear, so you case completely isses what is being argued here

Regardless of if that is true or not, it is not the case in JJBA. According to Emporio, electricity won't pass deep enough into you to damage your organs due to the body's natural resistance to electricity, but salt water lets it reach deeper. However, Ermes was not covered with Salt water, but McQueen was, therefore it cannot be the just the attack.

Yeah, what do you want scans for specifically? i can provide the scans of Emporio explaining the electric shit and of Ermes not noticing the wounds appearing on her, proving that it wasn't just her being slashed.
 
Can you guys just make a new revision thread for this? We kinda want to finish up with the matches first. One thing at a time so we can at least do this now
 
It was already agreed I believe to remove them. regardless to how HTH works, his fights need to be nuked cause he simply can't win against these people he is put up against. Fresh start
 
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