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The Writer and The Law of Identity

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@DarkLK

That unsureness is exactly what I think constitutes At least High 1-A. It sets a positive precedent, avoids a lot of drama, and basically says that while she may have this potential limitation, it also may not be a limitation, but it is not revealed to us which answer is correct. Thus, At least High 1-A is a safe end, to avoid needless speculation. I would be more than willing to explain this in the tiering and why this makes logical sense.

Also, Demonbane seems to be more trouble than may potentially be worth. There seems to be quite a lot of contradiction there.
 
I also find Demonbane to likely cause more trouble than it is worth keeping around. However, ALRF and Theokyrios the Ultimate supposedly know the series very well, so if they manage to properly revise the series, we may not need to delete it.
 
So do you think that rating (At least High 1-A) could be accepted at this point? It's gotten no staunch objections thus far, and would seemingly only apply to TLOI for now. Either way, the thread seems to be concluded otherwise, as there has been no replies in over half a day.
 
I currently have no opinion regarding the issue.
 
@Extreme

First of all, we are discussing At least High 1-A.

Second of all, I and others have individually addressed each of these concerns above. Kami Tenchi and TOAA are using this as a term of speech, whereas LOI's is a blatant assessment.
 
Does anyone else have any other input on this thread? Was a decision reached? It would be nice for this thread to be able to be closed with a satisfactory conclusion.
 
Well, I overreacted due to being overworked at the time, but I think that the consensus was to keep the two profiles as they are.
 
There seemed to be a good deal of support for the concillatory At least High 1-A rating on TLOI's profile, though. I agree that all the others should stay as they are, apart from a potential series of new keys for Azathoth (DB) to be made at a different time.
 
Wasn't the consensus that since we only use questionable omnipotence, lack of full omniscience shouldn't be a deciding limitation? I do not remember so well.
 
Well, the main issue was whether or not TLOI's limitation was truly so, which is why Matt, Kaltias, Sera, Kingpin and potentially a few others thought the special rating (At least High 1-A) made sense. She was being argued to be a 0 and a High 1-A by two different sides, and then that rating was introduced to be concillatory and to address the problem so that it didn't ever need to be touched on again. Other than that, all other potential downgrades were addressed, including Demonbane's Azathoth, with the verdict that that profile needs two extra keys to account for its limitations, and all the others were fine as they were.
 
Well, I am neutral regarding the issue. You would probably need some further input.
 
That was where the conversation reached an impasse before, and it didn't seem like anyone else was interested in commenting.
 
Oh, so this it the thread that sparked the... change.

Kinda sad I missed the bulk of it, since I was definitely for getting rid of the Writer and downgrading LoI. Also did the Demonbane Azzy thing ever get resolved?
 
Well, they are obviously free to continue the conversation, but I cannot force them to do so.
 
It may be best to gather info and bring this up later, in a thread that isn't filled with over 200 posts from a single day that aren't exactly flattering.
 
Idk what happened with the Writer profile. Maybe that could be in another thread?

Anyway, it did seem as though the majority of people did agree with the LOI downgrade.

The Azzy thing was more or less ameliorated in that the current profile is faulty and not the character itself, it really needs 3 keys; one 1-C key, one 1-A or High 1-A key, and the 0 key (Though I still thing not being able to destroy the Song of Life accounts for a metafiction limitation, but that should be relegated to another thread imo)
 
Also, I think the LOI thing is solid. It's the other stuff that I believe warrants a new thread.
 
@Assaltwaffle

I think that we are going to wait for Demonbane to get revised by people who know it well, but not much seems to be happening at the moment.

Personally I find it obscure and hard to properly evaluate, with a writer who has decided to completely contradict his original canon.

It may very well cause us more problems than it is worth keeping around, unless the pages are revised.
 
I agree with Ant regarding Demonbane; the current state of the profiles is a mess, and there's been no signs of revision.
 
Closing this thread and starting a new one might be best, yes.
 
What about the LOI downgrade though? Shouldn't we address that first? (It was the key reason for this thread and is unrelated to the other problems) It seems well-enough agreed upon.
 
The problem is that this thread has turned toxic thanks to myself having a prolonged period of overexertion at the time.

It is probably best if you start a new one with a summary of the relevant points in the beginning.
 
Well, do you have any opinions at this point about it? It was the only thing that was agreed upon to any degree in this thread.
 
Not particularly at this point in time. Sorry.
 
I think that having TLoI at "At least High 1-A", with a note as to why it is that way is a reasonable enough proposition.
 
I agree with the note bit alongside the rating, that makes more sense than no explanation.

I think everything else should be handled in a new thread, though. I'd be happy to start that.
 
At least High 1-A already does, though. She has a limitation, it's just unknown how implicative that limitation is.
 
1. High 1-A is already for someone who would be Tier 0 if not for an arbitrary limitation or superior being. So having "At least High 1-A" is redundant and pointless.

2. A Tier 0 by definition is supposed to be completely and unquestionably within that tier. If there's a possibility they aren't a Tier 0 I don't think they should be Tier 0 at all.
 
But see, the thing is, this is a unique situation. It is unknown if her limitation is truly so or not. So it may or may not be a possibility. Thus, a special case could be made, along with a note which solidifies said rating. That's why not "Possibly 0" or anything to that effect, just "At least High 1-A". This was already discussed throughout the thread.
 
I guess At least might be okay then. Depends on what the others think.
 
Well, it seems to have plenty of support so far (Kaltias, Matt, Fllflourine, Crzer, Assaltwaffle) with Sera not minding it.
 
afair fictional (questionable) omnipotence is more lenient to be qualified than actual (questionable) omnipotence, which was the crux of the argument. and with a "possibly 0" appeases that stance.
 
But see the thing is, the possibly 0 part is redundant and disingenuous. It *is* a fact that she has a limitation, it just is unknown whether or not the limitation is truly so.
 
I think if they have any limit they should be hard out of 0. Just pure High 1-A imo, with a note explaining her limitation.

Also idk why we even have "questionably" omnipotent in the first place. It doesn't really matter that we have theologians and metaphysicists that say omnipotence isn't being able to do what is impossible, only all that is possible, when we have characters like God-Ma, a 2-C, that can already break necessary truths like 2+2=4.
 
If someone shows a limitation to their power or capabilities, they are not "questionably omnipotent". They are clearly not omnipotent.
 
But, as stated before, the limitation may not truly be one; it is unknown. That's why "At least" is imperative to the argument. Admittedly, it's a very unique situation.

Also, @Assalt, AFAIK we don't use omnipotence as a metric. Tier 0 is just simply above all hierarchies in a verse, while also being beyond dimensions, without limitations, where as High 1-A is the same but with for-sure weaknesses. Again, this amounts to a very unique situation.
 
I much prefer to keep the "questionable" part. We can somewhat evaluate whether or not a character is boundless, but true omnipotence is impossible to prove, and would probably disqualify all of our characters from the position. It is better to not rock the boat too much.
 
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