The Ultra Series Discussion Thread: Unleash! The Power of Imagination!

[Mr.Cutlery]

Glitter Eternity being midseason and set to fight Diavolo is not only giving hope AP-wise, but also in hax because we know he'll be dealing against darkness stuff so that's already a truckload of resistances, plus we might even see him dish out some of his own. If Z was any indication, then we should be seeing at least a couple of really good ones.

 

[Peter1129]

Its probably more likely that Diavolo will be holding back in his fight against Trigger and Ribut. But yeah Trigger will probably get a Low 2-C statement thanks to the Eternity Core. And hax is probably a given since Trigger seems to be fighting a bunch of rather op enemies in the near future.

 

[Peter1129]

Powered, Joneus, Great, and Original Z will also appear in UGF3. And it seems like Zero is gonna be training himself by challenging Seven, Leo, and Joneus at the same time while wearing a tector gear. Also Mebius is training Grigio.

【银格3】【奥特曼吧】_百度贴吧

【银格3】..雷欧赛文乔尼亚斯训练赛罗，梦比优斯训练格丽乔，下面哉阿斯纳伊斯博伊，然后说泰迦三人小队，如果是这么分布的话仿佛把哉阿斯纳伊斯博伊组成了喜剧三人组…

tieba.baidu.com

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

New scaling for Z is always welcome. Mebius is also resident trainer now, it seems, that's nice. Zero, well, as one of the inevitable focal characters, he has to have something great in store.

 

[Peter1129]

I’m gonna be real surprised if Tartarus still beats Zero even after all this training. Like at this point Zero doesn’t have to win but he has to at least tie with Tartarus.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case, since it looks like they might actually throw him under the bus again by also introducing Diavolo by that point.

 

[Peter1129]

If Zero still loses after his training it’s not just the Zero fans that are gonna be pissed. It’s literally everybody. Cause he’s currently getting training by two of the most popular Ultra Brothers as well as Joneus while wearing the tector gear. And it’s likely that by the end of it even while wearing the tector gear he will be strong enough to fight all three of them at once. So if Zero still loses to Tartarus most people would think that means the Showa Ultras also lost as they couldn’t even beat Tector Gear Zero.

Though considering how the other two Absolutians still aren’t introduced yet I could see him losing yet again although in a much better fashion like barely losing in a beam struggle against Tartarus or something.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Powered, Joneus, Great, and Original Z will also appear in UGF3. And it seems like Zero is gonna be training himself by challenging Seven, Leo, and Joneus at the same time while wearing a tector gear. Also Mebius is training Grigio.

【银格3】【奥特曼吧】_百度贴吧

【银格3】..雷欧赛文乔尼亚斯训练赛罗，梦比优斯训练格丽乔，下面哉阿斯纳伊斯博伊，然后说泰迦三人小队，如果是这么分布的话仿佛把哉阿斯纳伊斯博伊组成了喜剧三人组…

tieba.baidu.com

Lel Zero really don't like that lost, ain't it?

Powered and Great returned, now hoping the USA Trio to shown up as well

Damn, so looks like Grigio Darkness is just an copy then

 

[TyranoDoom30]

The Flaccid Pancake of Ultraman

 

[Peter1129]

That’s due to King Joe’s Chinese name being

金古桥 (Jin Gu Qiao)

金古 (Jin Gu) being how they pronounce King in Chinese

And 桥 (Qiao) being bridge and how they pronounce Joe

Somebody must’ve used a machine translation from Chinese to English for that scene.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Although, i can say that Tyly Stone comes close to Jingu Bridge in how hilarious they are

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

How long do we usually have to wait on whether more staffs are going to comment on threads?

Also, speaking of the CRT, I never really brought this up, but should it be accepted, Ultras, Majin and similar beings should pretty much have resistance negation and resistance to those given what's already established before. Well, more like I never realized until now.

 

[Peter1129]

I dunno. I was thinking about waiting until Wednesday before I ask if we can apply the changes since that’s when I have enough free time to apply changes to profiles. Also since the CRT is pretty much accepted now, Mr.Cutlery can you add the consciousness stuff onto the Ultra Physiology sandbox as mind/soul manipulation?

Peter1129/Sandbox2

vsbattles.fandom.com

In the meantime we should probably start compiling abilities that are missing from the profiles so we can prepare for Part 3 of the miscellaneous revisions. After that we should be done with everything for now until the Eternity Core stuff gets introduced.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

So, roughly 3 days, as I've theorized. Alright, I'll get on to it once I'm on my laptop.

Yeah, seems like that'd be all then.

Edit: Weird thought that I just realized. We know Zero was already weakened during Geed, but was there any mentions of him ever recovering to pre-Episode 8? Because REM herself stated that Zero may had been weakened to the point of being undetectable even to her.

 

[Peter1129]

I don’t know? I assumed he did as he essentially just came back like nothing happened.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Damn. It'd have somewhat made sense since he somehow couldn't beat Base Belial despite using Beyond back in episode 16.

 

[Peter1129]

I mean we actually could make the argument that after deflecting Zegun and Magnificent Geed’s beams Zero weakened himself even further and didn’t recover to his Pre-Episode 8 self until after the fight with Dada Custom Legionoid. Since after that Zero Beyond was treated as about comparable to Royal Mega Master Geed. Though this would mean Zero Beyond had to strain himself to deflect two beams from characters 5x weaker than himself which honestly doesn’t make much sense. But yeah the scaling for Geed kind of went bonkers towards the end of the series. We had weird stuff like a normal Pedanium Zetton nearly beating Royal Mega Master Geed when Post-Planet Sturm Pedanium Zetton was only slightly stronger than Magnificent Geed.

Also thinking about it I feel like Zero Beyond might’ve potentially been able to take down Base Belial if Geed didn’t join in. Since he did score quite a few hits on Belial even though it didn’t seem to do much damage. Not to mention he also didn’t even use his beams yet. Though I guess the same can be said for Belial. But yeah overall Base Belial seemed comparable to Zero Beyond with Belial being slightly stronger.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Peter1129/Sandbox2

vsbattles.fandom.com

I've updated as best as I could. I wasn't sure if I should separate the NPI and SM section so I just made the hax under Light Manipulation, which I moved to the bottom.

Also, a bit of update for Max and IF. Remember this site: https://w.atwiki.jp/aniwotawiki/pages/1635.html (Which Sun used in that thread)

There it says that Maxium Cannon has this effect: 当然イフも電子レベルで分解された筈である。| "Naturally, IF should have been decomposed at an electronic level."

So, it may not be photon like we expected. It's still fine since both the scans we got that talked about it only really mentioned light particles at best, and electron is pretty close in level as photon so any clarification is welcome. That said, after looking again at the site, I'm taking it with a grain of salt because I'm not sure if it's really the company's work.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah I think we should probably just separate soul manipulation from non-physical interaction.

Also isn’t that site just the jp equivalent of Fandom/Wiki? I don’t think that counts as a Tsuburaya source. Like this is the main page which shows news articles and stuff for everything.

アットウィキ (@WIKI)

「@WIKI(アットウィキ)」は、ゲーム情報メディア/コミュニティです。最新ゲームニュース、ゲーム攻略Wikiがたくさんあります。掲示板で仲間を探して質問したり、ゲームニュースやゲーム攻略Wikiから友達と差をつけよう。

atwiki.jp

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Ah, okay then.

Oh, it is? Damn, that's a bummer.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah just copy and pasted the description onto google translate and this is what it said.
"@WIKI" is a game information media / community. There are many latest game news and game strategy wikis. Find your friends on the bulletin board and ask questions, or make a difference with your friends from the game news and game strategy wiki.
Doesn't seem like its a Tsuburaya related site.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oh god, how did we overlook this when Sun first made the CRT? Well, at least we have more to confirm IF's regen level.

 

[Peter1129]

Also I've been thinking should the Tri-Squad get a Post-Training key like Orb did? Cause from UGF2 we know that the Tri-Squad went through an extra round of special training and in the UGF3 preview we see that Titas is fighting a Legionoid Type A while Beta Smash Z is fighting a Darclops Zero. And in the later scenes we are shown that X needed to go Exceed to fight the Legionoid and Darclops Zero which wouldn't make much sense since he scales above Photon Earth Taiga who is stronger than Titas in Base. So it seems like after their training in UGF2 the Tri-Squad might be closer to the New Generation Ultras in power now. So I was thinking they probably needed a new Post-Training key where they got stronger.

And I was thinking since based on the UGF3 teaser, Titas seems to be comparable to Beta Smash Z who is comparable to Power Trigger I think we should treat Titas as being 3x Base Taiga. Which makes sense as Titas is supposed to be Taiga's equivalent of his strength form. And since it's shown that Post-Training Base Taiga is now capable of rather easily fighting EX Zetton as well as Zetton Falx both of whom could somewhat put up a fight against Titas. I was thinking we should scale Post-Training Base Taiga to Titas. So scaling wise I was thinking

Titas 3x> Base Taiga

Post-Training Base Taiga ≈ Pre-Training Titas 3x> Pre-Training Base Taiga

Though this does kind of mess with the New Generation and Ultra Brothers scaling. Although thinking about it now, technically we don’t know if Pre-Training Tri-Strium Taiga is truly comparable to the other New Generations Final Form. We kinda just assumed he is since they were shown in the same scene but considering how Taiga’s base form was at the time far weaker than the other New Generation Ultras I think its safe to assume that Tri-Strium was also probably below them in their final form. And if I remember correctly Tri-Strium Taiga was actually getting overpowered by Grimdo possessed Taro who was also weakened as you know his color timer was blinking red the whole time. So if in UGF3 the New Generation Ultras are shown to be comparable to Post-Training Tri-Strium Taiga we could probably just downscale Pre-Training Tri-Strium Taiga for being 3x weaker than his Post-Training self.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Yeah, Tri-Strium wad kind of losing, and they only won because they directly counteracted Grimdo in a soul clash.

And going by what you said, if it potentially messes up the scaling for the New Gens, I don't think we should try applying it yet, especially since one of the basis is to scale Titas to Beta Smash. Who knows, they're all probably going for another training as hinted by the mags, what with Grigio and Zero's own respective training and all.

On another note, how was Maga-Orochi's energy and life drain stated to work again? Was it like a passive thing?

 

[Peter1129]

When I mean by it messes up the scaling I mean it only messes up the scaling for the final forms. The other scaling for the base forms would actually be much more consistent based on what we have seen from the UGF3 trailer. And the scaling for the final form could in all honesty be fixed by assuming Tri-Strium Taiga before the training wasn't on par with the other New Generations Ultras Final Form. Which makes sense as he was losing to a weakened and possessed Taro who was also shown to be able to hold himself back from attacking Taiga. Not to mention it never really made sense for Tri-Strium to make Taiga over 400x stronger than Base. So if we do accept this scaling it would basically go

Showa Ultra Brothers ≈ New Generation Ultras Final Form ≈ Post-Training Tri-Strium Taiga 3x> Pre-Training Tri-Strium Taiga (Full Power) > Imit-Belial ≈ New Generation Belial (Full Power) ≈ Baseline Low 2-C

But yeah I think we should probably wait for UGF3 to come out before we can say for certain this is accurate. Though personally I think Titas being 3x Base Taiga does make sense as it fits with the strength forms/ultras being several/3 times the base form/ultra.

I don't think we know for certain. But from the looks of it I think it was passive. Maga-Orochi basically drained monsters dead by simply staying underground.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Oh yeah, that scaling does look somewhat messed up. Same if we assume Tri-Strium to be on par with the others from the get go. But it sort of messes up Tregear, too, doesn't it? Because we assume that he really is that much weaker in comparison to the others, kind of breaking the establishment that Grimdo's power gave him "invincible fighting power" which I take as him at least becoming comparable to the other top tiers.

Actually, Titas being at least 3x Taiga does make sense now, so I don't see any problem with that.

That's where I'm trying to go with the absorption, too. But TAC's first episode seem to hint that it's only the egg that passively absorbs energy, and we also see Magata actively do it, so it may be bunk, somewhat.

 

[Peter1129]

Honestly Tregear has been treated pretty horribly once we started to learn more about him. Like according to I think the novel, Early Style Tregear's techniques met the requirements to join the Inter Galactic Defense Force but his beams were too weak to defeat monsters and this was all the way back during the Showa Era or even earlier where monsters were just High 4-C and 4-B. In the R/B movie, Ultimate Final Geed was able to overpower him after he got used to his fighting style. In UGF1, he specifically told Ultra-Dark Killer to capture Grigio because he sees Groob as a threat and in the databook they also said Groob possesses power greater than Tregear. And then when we got to the Reiwa Era, in Ultraman Taiga, Tregear was losing to a Tri-Strium Taiga who wasn't even at full power as according to the databook the Tri-Squad only fully recovered by the time of the movie. Not to mention the databook and official site for episode 23 of Ultraman Taiga outright says Base Zero is stronger than him. And than in the Taiga movie, after he lost a part of Grimdo he was getting overpowered by the Tri-Squad (Taiga wasn't even using Photon Earth) until Grimdo possessed Taro stepped in to help. In UGF2, Tartarus even said he can give Tregear power without Grimdo and from the looks of it he did amp him to the point he surpassed himself when he had Grimdo in him as he could fight and overpower Base Zero who scales above everybody else due to the strongest Ultra warrior statement alongside Belial.

So yeah Tregear not being comparable to the other top tiers would actually be surprisingly consistent. Considering how he was originally weak from the start and once he lost part of Grimdo he couldn't even beat Base Taiga, Fuma, and Titas working together. I never really took those invincible fighting power things seriously as they don't really tell us how strong a character is in comparison to another.

Ahh yeah now that I think about it that might actually be the case. Maga-Orochi only passively absorbs energy in its egg form in order to evolve while it could choose to actively absorb once it has hatched/evolved.

Oh right also now that we know Joneus will be training Zero alongside Seven and Leo I believe its safe to assume Joneus is also Low 2-C and scales to the Showa Ultra Brothers. And judging by what we have seen of Ribut, it seems like he also reached Low 2-C in the Reiwa Era. In the Ultraman Trigger magazine it seems like Ribut will be facing off against Diavolo alongside Glitter Trigger Eternity who is probably gonna be Low 2-C. And in UGF2, we see him pair up with Fuma to take down the Zettons. And so far the ones who have paired up with the other Tri-Squad members (Taiga and Titas) are Base Zero and Joneus. Both of whom are Low 2-C. Not to mention the UGF3 poster has him standing alongside Ultimate Shining Zero and Delta Rise Claw Z so from the looks of it there seems to be quite a bit of implication that Ribut has reached Low 2-C.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Damn, it really sucks to be Tregear.

That's a shame about Orochi, too, since it could have given Orb and the TAC Maga-Orochi crew to have some resistance to power and life drain.

Well, that's at least two more to scale, that's always nice.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah it really does. He wen't from being one of the strongest bosses of the previous era behind only Belial, Gilvallis, and Ultra-Dark Killer to being the first and weakest boss in the current era. Heck even mini-bosses from Ultraman Z like Baraba and Greeza is stronger.

And yeah really does suck. Would've been real nice to have passive absorption hax for Orochi.

Yep. I have a feeling after the Absolutians have been defeated, outside of Zero and the Showa Ultra Brothers, more Ultras afterwards will start to scale to Low 2-C in Base form and potentially 2-C in their final form.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Damn. And of those lot, Baraba seemed more of a Secret Boss, even if it weren't for Ace's team up, DRC also seemed to be having trouble with it. And then there's Trigger, who finds Secret Bosses left and right.

And people thought there was power creep before. This is an even wilder possibility.

 

[Peter1129]

For real its like Trigger accidentally triggered a special secret event and is now fighting hidden bosses nobody has fought before all of a sudden.

Honestly I feel like Zaigorg had it even worse than Tregear. Like Zaigorg is literally the second strongest boss before Crisis Impact (Behind only Final Form Greeza) and yet in the very first series after Crisis Impact, Ultraman Geed, it was literally treated as a normal monster of the week and proceeded to get stomped by Royal Mega Master Geed casually in a 1v2. But yeah I won't even be surprised if we eventually get Low 2-C base Ultras with all the power creep going on.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Ha, triggered. I guess being a botanist is something to avoid then.

At least Zaigorg being a normons had some basis due to RMM being arguably a bigger power-up at the time due to directly having King's energy. And when we finally do get the all Low 2-Cs, at least give more feats of that level. Having to scale someone from something that happened like 4 years ago is bound to get confusing.

I mean so far, including Eternity Core, we have the STA Bomb, and Bullton. Even then, that last one still needs proper evaluation because the SCW screwed us over.

 

[Peter1129]

I didn't even realize I used triggered after Trigger until you mentioned it lol.

True back than being acknowledged and having King's energy was a huge thing. That is until Royal Mega Master kept losing after the events of Ultraman Geed. Like seriously the only time RMM has won in canon outside of Ultraman Geed was in the Ultraman Z Stage show where he defeated Kaiser Geed.

And yeah we definitely need more Low 2-C feats. Although if we do get some 2-C feats in the future I guess scaling from a Low 2-C feat years ago wouldn't be too bad as we have basis of them scaling to tier 2.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Wait what the hell, really? A stage show is the only other setting RMM has scored a win since his finale messed him over?

Makes sense. Though what other Low 2-C feats were actually clear enough to potentially scale to, other than anything past 2017? The only other one I remember is probably Saga Bat's universe destruction, which should only scale to that version and subsequently Zett. Even then, there's not much expansion on that since.

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah Geed used RMM a total of 4 times after the events of Ultraman Geed and he only won once using it.

In the Geed Movie, RMM appeared and got one shot by Galactron MK2.
In the R/B Movie, after a brief fight RMM got one shot by Tregear.
In UGF1, after a short fight RMM got defeated by Base Ultra-Dark Killer via absorption hax despite being stronger via scaling.
In the Ultraman Z stage show, RMM defeated Kaiser Geed after dual wielding the Geed Claw.

Wait the universe destruction Bat caused was Low 2-C? I thought it was 3-A?

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Wow, RMM is a butt monkey. Hopefully Destined Crossroad fixes that.

I assume it's Low 2-C given the context. By that time, we were already introduced to the multiverse, and Beatstar's choice of word seemed to indicate a more complete scale of destruction and should only really scale to Saga and that version of Hyper Zetton. Nevertheless, like I said, it's still too vague if we go by the site's standard.

 

[Peter1129]

I see.

Oh right also I think I might have some free time tomorrow so if I can, tomorrow I’ll bump the thread and ask if we can apply the changes.

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Alright then.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

As for Tregear i can argue that is not his power that made him feares but rather how much manipulative and smart he is

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Pretty much. That's why cataloging his powers are so much fun. He's got at least 21 combat applicable abilities, and around 5 or so of those are haxxes.