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The Ultra Series Discussion Thread: Unleash! The Power of Imagination!

Btw does Dark Lugiel really count as a Dark Ultra? Isn’t he more of an alien that’s also the opposite of Ginga? Like we know they were originally one being that split but does that really make Lugiel a Dark Ultra when we don’t even know if they were an Ultra before they split?
 
I mean, I don't remember any instances of anyone calling him such. Even TsuPro seem to list him as an alien, so, likely not. Why though?
 
Well I just saw him listed under Dark Ultras in the verse page. So I wanted to make sure if he is considered an Alien or Dark Ultra in the sandbox of the new verse page I made.
 
Huh. Oh, yeah, he is. Wonder if it's me or Roachman who made that change...

Well in any case, yeah, it needs a change.
 
Yeah some of the profiles are listed under the wrong tab under current verse page. We'll fix everything later on. After the multipliers thread is over I should be able to post the new verse page.
 
So how does this look for a multiplier CRT? Should I actually type out the description of the statements rather than simply say they are several times stronger?

2x (2倍/二倍/倍増 Double/Two times) Multipliers​

Fire Golza‘s ultrasonic wave is twice as strong as normal Golza’s (Fire Golza is 2x Normal Golza).
Normal Golza is inferior to Multi Tiga while Fire Golza was capable of overpowering Multi Tiga. So Fire Golza being twice as strong as normal Golza is consistent.

By inheriting Agul V1’s light, Gaia V2’s ray techniques are twice as strong as Gaia V1. Gaia V2’s basic power is double that of V1. Gaia’s strength is doubled as V2. Gaia’s ray techniques power have doubled. The destructive power of Gaia’s punch is doubled. Gaia’s combat power is double his previous combat power. The destructive power of his punches are twice as high as before. The power of his beams are doubled.
Gaia V2 is Gaia V1 + Agul V1. So Gaia V2 being twice as strong as Gaia V1 is consistent.

Agul V2 is twice as strong as Agul V1.
Same as Gaia V2. Agul V2 is Agul V1 + Gaia V1 so it's consistent.

Burning Mebium Dynamite is twice as strong as Mebium Dynamite (Burning Brave is 2x Base).
Burning Brave is often shown to be able to easily defeat the enemies that are capable of stomping Base Mebius. So it is also consistent.

Reionic Burst Gomora’s power is double Base Gomora's.
Reionic Burst Gomora is capable of overpowering enemies that could overpower Base Gomora. Same as the others it is consistent with its showings.

3x (3倍/数倍/何倍 Three/Several times) Multipliers​

Gua is 3x stronger than the Gua Siblings (Juda, Mold, and Gina) due to being a fusion of the three of them.
In their series Andro Melos, it is stated that Gua is the fusion and true form of the Gua Siblings. So it is also consistent.

Power Type made Tiga’s body several times stronger than before. Power Type made him 3x stronger than before. Tiga’s body is several times stronger than before. Tiga’s full body is several times stronger than before.
Bizaamo who could block even Multi Tiga's strongest attack with its electricity was overpowered by Power Tiga. Silvergon who was unharmed by Multi Tiga's Zeperion Beam was defeated by Power Tiga. So this multiplier is very consistent.

Sky Tiga is 3x faster than Multi Tiga.
Okay this on the other hand I'm not entirely sure. Like it is indeed shown that Sky Tiga is way faster than Multi Tiga but the difference is never shown to be so big that monsters and aliens as fast as Multi Tiga couldn't keep up with him.

Kyrieloid II is several times stronger than Kyrieloid I.
Kyrieloid I is on par with Multi Tiga while Kyrieloid II (Who is a fusion of multiple Kyrieloids) was straight up stomping Multi Tiga. So this is also consistent.

Strong Dyna is several times stronger than Flash Dyna.
Strong Dyna is capable of one shotting Neosaurus who was overpowering Flash Dyna. And Dyna is canonically supposed to be a better version fo Tiga so this is also consistent.

Corona Cosmos is Cosmos’ strength form so it should also be a several times boost.
Neo Baltan who is equal to Luna Cosmos was completely stomped by Corona Cosmos. So despite not having a stated multiplier I think it's fine to assume it's just like the other strength forms which is several times stronger than Base right?

Strong-Corona Zero is Strong Dyna + Corona Cosmos so it should at least be a several times boost.
Zero's speed and strength form were given by Dyna and Cosmos. So Zero's strength form scale to Dyna and Cosmos' strength forms.

Gaia SV multiplies power by several times. Full body is strengthened to several times its original. Full body and beams are several times stronger than before. The strength of his body is several times stronger than before.
Gaia SV is capable of stomping enemies on par with Gaia V2. As well as one shotting enemies that could no sell attacks from V2. So its also consistent.

Chaos version is several times stronger than the original. Chaos versions energy is several times stronger. Chaos versions power and ferocity is several times the original.

Future Cosmos’s beam is several times stronger than Eclipse Cosmos’s beam. And again Future Mode is several times stronger than Eclipse Mode. Beams are several times stronger than before. Power is several time his previous form.
Future Mode is Cosmos' equivalent to Justice's Crusher Mode while Eclipse Mode is Cosmos' equivalent of Justice's Standard Mode. So yeah also consistent.

Crusher Justice is several times stronger than Standard Justice.
Crusher Justice is capable of defeating enemies that could overpower Standard Justice. Crusher Mode is also able to hurt monsters that could no sell attacks from Standard Mode. Same here consistency with the power boost.

Cross Perfection is several times stronger than Future Cosmos and Crusher Justice’s normal beam.
Cross Perfection is capable of destroying Gloker Bishop which survived multiple attacks from the two of them individually. Same here consistent showing.

Junis Nexus is several times stronger than Anphans Nexus. Junis’ Particle Feather is several times stronger. Junis is several times stronger than before.
Anphans Nexus is comparable to Dark Mephisto while Junis Nexus is capable of easily defeating him. Junis is supposed to be Nexus' strength form so yeah also consistent.

EX Gomora is several times stronger than normal Gomora. Again EX form is several times stronger than normal form.
EX Gomora is capable of stomping both Zetton and King Joe Black at the same time. Zetton is capable of fighting Base Gomora, Litra, and Eleking at the same time and winning. Same with King Joe Black. EX Gomora is also capable of no selling attacks from Rayblood possessed Armored Darkness who is capable of overpowering Reionic Burst Gomora. And yeah very very consistent.

EX Red King is several times stronger than normal Red King.
EX Red King is capable of overpowering Rayblood possessed Armored Darkness which was capable of overpowering Base Red King. Same as EX Gomora.

Greeza Dark Thunder makes monsters go EX so it’s also a several times boost.

Exceed X’s destructive power is several times stronger than Base X.
Exceed X is capable of stomping monsters struck by Greeza Dark Thunder. Also consistent.

Base Victory scales to Base X while Knight Victory also scales to Exceed X so it should also a several times boost.

Hyper Zetton is several times stronger than normal Zetton.
Hyper Zetton is capable of fighting Fuma while normal Zetton is capable of fighting Taiga. Fuma is able to easily defeat Darebolic who was capable of overpowering Taiga. Pretty consistent boost here.

4x (4倍) Multipliers​

Neos and Seven 21’s double kick is more than 4x stronger than their individual kick.

Neldrant Mechalator is 4x stronger than normal Neldrant.

Grigio King’s flame breath is 4x stronger than Grigio Bone.
Girigio King was able to overpower the Triple Origium Beam which is Rosso + Blu + Orb all of whom are stronger than Grigio Bone.

Ruebe is more than 4x stronger than Rosso and Blu.
Ruebe is capable of no selling Grigio King's attack.

5x (5倍) Multipliers​

Powered’s Mega Spacium Beam is 5x stronger than Spacium Beam. Powered's beam is about 5x stronger than Ultraman's beam.
Powered's entire series is literally about him fighting stronger versions of Ultraman's monsters. And he is also capable of defeating Powered Zetton which is a stronger version of Zetton who defeated Ultraman.

Grigio’s barrier is 5x stronger than her brothers.
Grigio is capable of blocking an attack from Snake Darkness and Tregear. Both of whom are way stronger than Ruebe.

King Joe Storage Custom’s firepower is 5x stronger than Windom Storage Custom.
It's also a thing stated in the series and we see that King Joe could fight and defeat monsters stronger than Windom.

10x (10倍) Multipliers​

True Vortex Buster is 10x stronger than Ruebe’s normal Vortex Buster.
True Vortex Buster one shot Leugocyte who is capable of no selling attacks from Grigio Regina who no sold the normal Vortex Buster and one shot Ruebe. This is a one time thing that they used at the end of the series so it's honestly not that important.

20x (20倍) Multipliers​

Taro‘s Strium Beam is 20x Ace’s Metallium Beam during the Showa Era. And again Strium Beam is 20x Metallium Beam. And again.
Tyrant who is a fusion of seven monsters and could easily defeat Zoffy, Ultraman, Seven, Jack, and Ace. Was easily defeated by Taro.

30x (数十倍/何十倍 Several ten times) Multipliers​

Super Taro is several ten times stronger than Base Taro. And again Super Taro is several ten times Base Taro.

Grantector makes Andro Melos several ten times stronger and faster than his Base. Grantector makes Andro Melos several ten times stronger than Base. Grantector makes Andro Melos fly several ten times faster. Grantector makes Andro Melos' telekinesis several ten times stronger than Base. Again Grantector makes Andro Melos several ten times stronger than before. Makes the wearer’s abilities several ten times stronger than before. Melos’ power was increased by several ten times after wearing it.
Andro Melos w/ Grantector easily defeated Gua the fusion of the Gua Siblings when Juda after reviving was capable of fighting Andro Melos w/o it.

Goldras is several ten times stronger than Silvergon. Again Goldras is several ten times stronger than Silvergon. Several ten times Silvergon. And again several ten times stronger than Silvergon. And again several ten times Silvergon. Once again several the times Silvergon. Once again several ten times stronger than Silvergon. And finally one last time several ten times stronger than Silvergon.
Goldras is capable of no selling Power Tiga's attacks and overpower him without even trying. In the databook it is also said that he was holding back during this fight as he didn't think Tiga was worthy of fighting him. And in series it only lost after it got its horn destroyed which heavily weakened it. And it is the second only to Gatanothor who is the final boss in the series so there is literally nothing contradicting it being this much stronger than Silvergon.

Chaos Ultraman Calamity is several ten times stronger than Chaos Ultraman (So difference between Eclipse and Corona is 30x minimum as Chaos Ultraman Calamity is a copy of Eclipse Cosmos with equal power while Chaos Ultraman is a copy of Corona Cosmos with equal power).
Eclipse Cosmos is capable of stomping Chaos Header Mebut who is capable of overpowering Corona Cosmos. Eclipse Cosmos is also capable of surviving attacks from Etelgar who is on par with Ultimate Zero. Eclipse Mode is also considered a fusion and not just a simple power up.

Wearing Armored Darkness makes the user several ten times stronger than normal.
Kaiser Darkness is on par with Ultimate Zero who is capable of one shotting Arch Belial who is stronger than Beryudora who is a fusion of Belial and 226 monsters (Whom are all way weaker than Belial).

Base Zero is weaker than Base/Kaiser Belial and Ultimate Zero matched and defeated Armored Darkness Belial so Ultimate form is a several ten times multiplier.

Ginga Victory > Etelgar >= Ultimate Zero 30x> Base Zero > Lugiel >= Taro > Ginga so the fusion should also at least be a several ten times boost.

Beta Spark Armor > Hybrid Armor > Ultimate Zero Armor = Ultimate Aegis > Armored Darkness (Several ten times boost) so Beta Spark and Hybrid Armor would also be a several ten times boost.

Weakened Belial Atrocious’ Atros Burst is several ten times stronger than Primitive Geed’s Wrecking Burst. And again Atros Burst is several ten times stronger than Wrecking Burst. And again.
 
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Just to be sure, the descriptions are as they're written now, right? If so, the format should remain since it's concise enough.
 
Well some of the descriptions aren't like the Fire Golza one for example is saying the beam it fires from its head is twice as strong as Normal Golza. And others with like huge descriptions also only mention the multipliers in like one sentence (Like Gaia V2's for example mentioned V2 being Gaia V1 + Agul V1) in the middle of the page. And there are also some of the others like Nexus where Junis Nexus' Particle Feather is stated to be several times stronger than before and not that Junis is several times stronger than Anphans. But since the moves are said to be several times stronger we assume that means the overall increase in the form is several times as well. As it makes no sense for only one move that could be used in all forms to be several times stronger and not the overall power itself.
 
Well if we go by that logic, then the descriptions should probably go since I pretty much also agree that it shouldn't make sense for such specific (Particle Feather) or only notable technique (Ultrasonic Ray) to have a boost in power.
 
So yeah I guess I should write out the description of every single statement right? Alright I'll do that later. Need to finish up my work that's due by midnight.

Also is it just me or is the site really slow right now?
 
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Looking back, I'm sorta wondering if it needs a thread. I could be wrong, but maybe a blog could work better given it's an explanation rather than any actual change in the tiering and statistics.

That said, I think it should also be categorized via consistency, with the highest having direct on-screen showcases.
 
So basically my sandbox of the multiplier blog I was gonna make?
vsbattles.fandom.com

Peter1129/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
I think I should probably ask some staff in my Digimon discord if multipliers like these need a thread to be accepted. Cause I think it does.
 
So yeah Dragon said it’s recommended to make a thread for the multipliers. So I guess I should probably post it sometime today right?
 
It's fine then, in that case.

On another note, seems that Bullton is unlikely to pass for a higher tier since it's too vague.
 
New episode of UGF2 is out. And wow so

Zett > Reiwa Era Burning Brave Mebius + Reiwa Era 80.

Reiwa Era Yullian ≈ Reiwa Era Grigio ≈ Reiwa Era Base Taiga > Zetton

Reiwa Era 80 ≈ Reiwa Era Base Mebius > Hyper Zetton

And as we all know Z is weaker than all of them. But holy crap Ultimate Shining Zero is actually a thing.

So Tartarus is gonna fight Zero’s new form which is a mix of Ultimate and Shining.
 
For real though the scaling went all crazy this episode. Like wow who would’ve thought that Zero straight up decided to use his strongest form to fight Tartarus. I honestly thought he was gonna slowly fight Tartarus with his weaker forms before using Shining. And huh who would’ve thought that the Z Riser was only used as a weapon and not a fusion device.

But isn’t Ultimate Shining Zero a retcon? Cause wasn‘t Shining supposed to be the complete fusion of Zero and the Ultimate Aegis?
 
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Same here, really. Shining was to be expected, but to make that jump into Ultimate Shining immediately is just, good lord. And with the Z Riser, I was wondering if he'd hand it to Z afterwards. But I guess that'd be redundant since that's what he'd do in Z's series.
 
Official description of Ultimate Shining Zero
22d97d1ed21b0ef4c357cd16cac451da80cb3ed2.jpg

Basically tldr by stacking Shining with Ultimate Aegis Zero is now able to use both time manipulation and spatial manipulation powers at the same time. But it heavily exhausts Zero’s body so it can’t be used for long. Also after deactivating this form Zero will get injured due to the sheer power this form possesses. So wait are they gonna weaken Zero again in the later series using this form as the excuse?

So this form is literally Ultimate Aegis stacked on Shining. I guess the Zero novel was supposed to be the retcon about how Shining is different from Ultimate Aegis. So this form‘s multiplier is literally 30 (Shining) x 30 (Ultimate Aegis) = 900 (Ultimate Shining). Reiwa Era Zero’s absolute maximum power at this point in time. It’s pretty much his equivalent of Super Saiyan Blue (Super Saiyan stacked on Super Saiyan God).
 
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With that combo, they'd better give us solid Low 2-C feats plus clarifying previous feats of that level. Alien Bat's ship and STA Bomb, for example.
 
For real. Now they literally have two of the strongest top tiers with space-time manipulation powers fighting each other. They better give us Low 2-C feats in the last episode.

Also I’m guessing I also need to post this new forms multiplier on the multiplier thread now.

Also Ultimate Shining Zero is trending on twitter.
 
I am at the point where as long as the feats exist, I can accept them now.

Probably should before it gets responses.

Well that's quick. Guess that's what being able to manipulate space-time does for you.
 
Btw I was thinking maybe we should put Beyond as a form stronger than Strong-Corona but weaker than Ultimate in the Reiwa Era. Cause in the Post-Crisis Impact Era it was considered the strongest form of a weakened Zero. So it was likely only the strongest because at that time the New Generation’s combined power was greater than a weakened Shining Zero. But in the Reiwa Era where Zero is fully recovered the boost from Beyond is no longer that large since the New Generation Ultras are way weaker than even his Base.
 
I've always considered the two side by side to some extent but given how it's used now and what it gives, yeah, Ultimate should be second strongest form.
 
Alright I’ll update these stuff onto Zero’s profile in the sandbox. I should also probably update the scaling sandbox as well.

Edit 1: Here's the sandbox with the new updated scaling with the multipliers.
Edit 2: Ahh crap just realized I forgot to add the scaling for the other Reiwa Era Ultras.
Edit 3: And I just realized that with the inclusion of Mebius now there’s another 2x multiplier in the scaling. Oh god dang it now I need to rework the entire scaling again.
vsbattles.fandom.com

Peter1129/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
And here's the sandbox with Zero's profile (I'll add the image of Ultimate Shining Zero whenever the official image is out and rendered).
vsbattles.fandom.com

Peter1129/Sandbox3

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
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Yeah after looking at the current scaling I think it’s best if we see what happens in the last episode before I fix the scaling. Cause Zett being weaker than Photon Earth Taiga despite being stronger than Burning Brave Mebius sounds really weird in terms of scaling. Especially with how much stronger the Ultra Brothers are treated these days in comparison to the New Generation. The current Reiwa Era scaling I have is a mess.

Also I just realized that Reiwa Era Zero and Post-2nd Ultra Instinct Sign Goku’s Low 2-C AP are really close.

Reiwa Era Zero: Base (Baseline), Strong-Corona (3x Baseline), Ultimate (>30x Baseline)

Post-2nd Ultra Instinct Sign Goku: SSB (SSB > First UIS > Infinite Zamasu = Baseline), SSBKKx20 (>20x Baseline)

So I think I might make a match between them once the multiplier thread is done.
 
Right, forgot that Mebius and 80 teamed on him. And to add with what you said, there's no reason Mebius should be weaker than Taiga so definitely needs to see it to the end first.

I was really confused at first, but then I remembered that even a possibly or likely can be used so long as the feat has strong indication of being applicable. But does future increase in powers boost both tiers? I just noticed that, since other profiles with possibly/likely rating gets treated normally alongside the scaling chain.
 
Yeah for likely/possibly stuff the multipliers and increases affect both tiers. So yeah the top tiers and god tiers are gonna be really really high into 3-A. Like probably just below the likes of Dragon Ball Super in terms of pure 3-A power.
 
That is very soothing to hear, especially given how anxious I got with how odd the tiers have become.
 
Btw do you guys think Tartarus will be defeated in the next episode? Cause from the looks of it I really don’t think Tartarus will lose next episode. There is just way too much stuff that hasn’t been explained yet. Like what is the Kingdom? Why did King have a brief appearance in Part 1 and is he gonna appear in the last episode? Where did Belial, Tregear, Reibatos, and Alien Bat go? Why is Tartarus doing all this?

And considering how there are rumors of Ultraman Trigger being about Trigger trying to fix some kind of time shenanigan I think Tartarus might live and become the overarching villain of the next series or several following series.
 
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I initially was 50/50 on things, but with all those things considered, it should be safe to say that Tartarus won't be defeated yet. Or rather, shouldn't. After all, why was UGF2 meant to tie with Z? That won't necessarily mean Z will be his end, but yeah.

I'm somewhat hoping that the Early Style duo survive for now, same with the other two goons.

Speaking of the rumors, has that one theorist said anything about Trigger yet? Or was that his list?
 
I don’t think UGF2 was meant to tie into Ultraman Z. It just seems like a tie-in between Taiga and Z. I was actually thinking maybe Tartarus will be a villain of Ultraman Trigger since it doesn’t seem like Ultraman Z will get a movie.

Same here. It would be fun to see them survive and cause trouble later on.

I’m not even sure if that was his list. From what I know the person who leaked the trademark list and the one who starts the rumors seems to be different people. And there have been a lot of rumors about Trigger having something to do with either the Gaia world or Tiga/Dyna world when the trademark list was released. Although it seems like all of the rumors stem from some Japanese site called 2chan or something.
 
That's what it said on the wiki. Must be a case of making assumption then. Still sucks that Z might not be getting a movie though.

Unless they want to try redeeming them. But all in all, having them survive longer and becoming long term enemies again would be nice.

Ah, they came from 2chan. Well, still eligible possibilities given Chronicle Z's direction.
 
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