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The time has come: Yogiri vs Touma REDUX

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Yes because taking away the oxygen of someone effects the whole body while killing parts doesn't. You aren't going anywhere with this lmao. Effects on the brain is an obvious answer on why the pain was induced. Otherwise there will not be reason to scream. Yogiri's ability is instant death and misfire causes instant death not something that will make you scream lol. Anyways he was shocked and this was through the connection with the brain and legs being loss.
 
EdenSux said:
After effect isnt supernatural has no reason for it be negated
I mean no really you need more back up to tell me that you do X in a part of his body with supernatural and the after effect that its natural of what happened in that part would be negated
Click to expand...
same for vento spell and it was still negated cause it would affect IB with a supernatural origin


if u want i can tell u what worked and what didn't
 
SoulRebell said:
Yes because taking away the oxygen of someone effects the whole body while killing parts doesn't. You aren't going anywhere with this lmao. Effects on the brain is an obvious answer on why the pain was induced. Otherwise there will not be reason to scream. Yogiri's ability is instant death and misfire causes instant death not something that will make you scream lol. Anyways he was shocked and this was through the connection with the brain and legs being loss.
Click to expand...
no taking away oxygen from lungs is the effect, people falling unconscious is a natural consequence


again so u understand if yogiri was capable of ONLY killing an arm without leading to the person death as a direct or indirect cause then yes it would work we literally have an example of someone in the novel who had to modify her strategy and spell to make it only work partially on body part to disable his body part without affecting him as a whole https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Saronia_A._Irivika
 
I'll adress this repetitive thing myself when I get time. I don't know why you keep going back on this tbh, but I will adress it again since it appears you are not convinced.
 
It's u who don't get my point, yogiri CAN kill single body parts but it will STILL lead to the target death as consequence naturally or unnaturally, like that it will be negated like vento spell, IF yogiri could affect single body part WITHOUT actually leading to the person death (something he IS trying to learn) then yes he would be capable of temporally disabling non related body part and it would not get negated like saronia spell
 
I am not talking about an arm. I am talking about parts of the legs and senses lmao. You do realize if you lose connections in parts you don't die right? Losing half of your body equates in dying naturally. Taking oxygen from the lungs effects the entire body already. The body as a whole requires oxygen if it doesn't get oxygen then it dies. Since it's done by supernatural means which is the extraction of the oxygens touma is capable of negating the effects. Ok which ability in the profile causes the shutting down and disconnection of body parts that summon on aimed body parts. And literally does not travel.
 
SoulRebell said:
I am not talking about an arm. I am talking about parts of the legs and senses lmao. You do realize if you lose connections in parts you don't die right? Losing half of your body equates in dying naturally. Taking oxygen from the lungs effects the entire body already. The body as a whole requires oxygen if it doesn't get oxygen then it dies. Since it's done by supernatural means which is the extraction of the oxygens touma is capable of negating the effects. Ok which ability in the profile causes the shutting down and disconnection of body parts that summon on aimed body parts. And literally does not travel.
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that's literally not what happened to the guy yogiri tried to kill only an arm , he died

are u saying he is alive ? cause that's not what happened

and again this is getting stupid, only blocking oxygen is the supernatural part being knock out it a natural reaction as the body can't find oxygen to supply it self
 
If you lose connection to some parts of your body you don't die. I said parts before but it seems I need to clarify and simplify things like I said chew it up and spit it back into your mouth. Such as an eye which is what happened in the excerpt. The guy didn't die because yogiri killed his arm he died naturally through the shock of it which is stated or just by the fact that he lost a big piece of himself. Either way the death wasn't supernatural the death was natural. The disconnection of the arm was supernatural. The cause wasn't supernatural the cause of cause supernatural. I guess in one case the cause can be considered the effect but it doesn't matter. Can you send the excerpt of touma negating it because he is going to be knocked out? Instead of touma negating it because his oxygen which again effects the whole body and works in the blood system of people is being drained supernaturally. Blame yourself for things becoming stupid saying stupid things results in such.
 
I'm voting inconclusive fra.

There's really no telling how this battle would go, there's too many different directions it could go in. And neither character has a completely reliable win condition.
 
we know tell spell work by stripping the oxygen from the lungs and leaving the bare minimum to survive

the author didn't go on such detail on how touma negate it "Index could not defend against Vento's Divine Punishment spell. Ignoring exceptions such as Kamijou's Imagine Breaker, anyone would be defeated as long as they met the requirement."

"She had a spell that would crush anyone who turned hostility in her direction. That combined with this wind attack would be enough to handle most anyone. Even if her attack did not hit, her enemy would feel hostility from the mere fact that she held a weapon.
But Kamijou's Imagine Breaker prevented Vento's Divine Punishment spell from taking effect."

Now can we have the excerpt of yogiri killing a body part without eventually killing someone ? im sorry, if u like playing that i can too


btw Vento is not only spell touma has dealt in a similar way here are some more : saronia when she tried to affect him whole with her spell but failed

( A spell developed by Saronia to obtain immediate power even on recent or rushed enclaves. Anyone who obstructs the development of the plants will receive punishment. That obstruction can be stepping on a seed, being hit by a seed thrown by Saronia or getting in the way of pollen as it flows through the air. The punishment takes the form of the paralysis of the body part who has caused the obstruction. )

"She threw the seeds at Kamijou as if scattering salt.
Taking the shower of seeds straight on, Kamijou collapsed to the ground once more. His entire body convulsed. He had no idea what expression was on his face and he could feel his blood vessels pulsating unnaturally. He could not move anything except for the part of his right arm that was past the elbow.

"…Chehh. So your organs are still functioning. "

"…Ah?" said Saronia A. Irivika questioningly.
She was surprised because Kamijou was still breathing even after she had scattered countless seeds atop him.
And then she realized something"

here is the Russian pope spell ""This spell brings other gods into our system and then reevaluates them by judging them according to our rules. Lust, pride, sloth, gluttony, envy, greed, and wrath. Let's start with the simple Seven Deadly Sins. Power obtained in an improper manner is not permitted and each sin will eliminate 1/7 of that power. Once all seven are gathered, you will lose even the strength needed to move the muscles of your heart, so be careful." "

"All seven had been gathered and the boy's last strength had been taken from him.
Sasha Kreutzev stepped up to Kamijou Touma and poked at his head with her finger, but he did not react. The falling snow was trying to blot out his skin with a thin layer of white.


------------------------------------


"No…"
Thus there was another reason for this.

"This isn't over yet."
With that said, Kamijou's right fist smashed Sasha's saw.
He slowly tried to stand up like a broken clockwork doll and he would clearly be no threat in a purely physical battle "


both time they would have indirectly killed him as a natural consequence like yogiri as he still can't affect only one part to deactivate it

Btw the pope spell was a Anti MG (so made to beat othinus that can surpass IB ) lvl spell so it didn't even fully negated it
 
In literally no planet ever does your arm not working kill you instantly.

From the wording, it would seem that even focused, it kills the entire body. The fact that Yogiri is taking a totally uninformed opinion doesn't help.

I would really love anyone to tell me why losing function on one arm would be so painful you'd die of shock... Or rather why would losing an arm be so painful that you'd die of shock?
 
Technically, if someone kills your arm, you can basically lose part of your veins as well, which means that the other part alive may have issues and can cause an internal bleeding or something like that
 
Internal bleeding that would never kill you instantly. No feasible way of removing someone's arm, or making it suddenly stop working, literally ends with you dead a mere instant after.

Unless anyone wants to argue that anyone in any incident where an extremity is broken if not outright ripped off, with massive blood loss ensuing, dies close to instantly.
 
So it wasn't explained how imagine breaker would negate it. Why are you even bringing it up lol it could be that imagine breaker needs to touch the area where his lung resides like how he touched his head in order to deal with it. It's far too vague and we don't know exactly what it is. But robbing the oxygen from an opponent causes effects to the whole body which is what I already stated. It seems the the oxygen grab didn't even set it but the imagine breaker negated it prior to it even residing in him. How is that anything like what yogiri's is gonna do which is kill parts of him that again doesn't end in instant death. If this is a game then you are a benchwarmer lmfaooo what were you even thinking with this? https://imgur.com/a/crlqeVzI In the case where he is killing parts of the dogman. The dogman did not die even after having parts of him killed so what are you on about? Haven't you did your favorite thing to do? Of course I am talking about research I don't know why you are asking this if you are so educated about both characters. Anyways I guess it's time to fess up and admit your ignorance. Poor poor comparsion. The effects were dealt on touma from that excerpt he simply overpowered it with sheer willpower. "He slowly tried to stand up like a broken clockwork doll and he would clearly be no threat in a purely physical battle " You are honestly helping point this shows that effecting other parts of his body are still completely viable and touma was indeed left extremely weakend by the paralysis. Like it or not this will allow yogiri to make an opening and ultimately kill him. And that is the win condition that we are going for. In pope spell and paralysis touma was both found effected by it. Just because IB wasn't effected that doesn't mean the rest of his body is effected. Your two latter examples quite literally make your arguments weaker.
 
Leaving aside the fact that even focused, Yogiri's ability seems to worn on the whole body, I am still very confused why are we assuming he would use this whole plan to pin point kill Touma.
 
i asked part not senses, i perfectly know he can kill sense without killing the person, so good try

and yes some effect that would affect touma whole body with his right hand too (like death, knocking unconscious , whole body paralisis, etc) are negated before they take effect , same would happen for yogiri as he still can't use it without killing someone

and again i literally said that was a spell which surpassed his negation power so it was partially affected, as it was meant to use vs a MG which beats IB in power ""This could be called the Russian Orthodox Church's secret spell and it required funding and preparations on a national level. Isn't it prideful to think you can overcome it so easily just because you have a special right hand?"
As Kamijou tried to stand, his strength left once more.
No matter how much strength he gathered, his muscles would not tighten. It was incredibly frustrating for his body to not do what he asked.
"Christianity and plenty of other religions have made their own compromises between differing traditions and legends. For example, Shinto took in Buddhism and the Hindu gods to create what is known as the Shinbutsu-Shugo. Christian editors have altered documents and caused Celtic, Norse, and other religions to lose their original form. In Christianity, we view the gods of other religions as demons, accept the heroes of other religions as our patron saints, and do plenty of other things as well."
Kamijou was reminded of the concept behind the fairy spell, but there was no need to mention that here. If he gave this opponent a hint that led to the development of an even nastier spell, it would be Othinus who suffered.
"But we changed that method of compromise a bit," said the cold voice. "This spell brings other gods into our system and then reevaluates them by judging them according to our rules. Lust, pride, sloth, gluttony, envy, greed, and wrath. Let's start with the simple Seven Deadly Sins. Power obtained in an improper manner is not permitted and each sin will eliminate 1/7 of that power. Once all seven are gathered, you will lose even the strength needed to move the muscles of your heart, so be careful." "

and the effect of paralysis was targeted unlike yogiri, i literally posted how it works, each part touched by the seed or pollen would be paralyzed when she used it on his whole body he should have either be dead (cause of organ failure

"Plant seeds!?"
Kamijou immediately twisted his body to the side and managed to avoid the rain of seeds that were thrown at him like a scattershot.
However…
"Too bad," said Saronia with a sneer. "Pollen is good enough to bring about the effects."
Kamijou's body fell straight down.
Unable to support his own weight, he collapsed to the ground.
It was a simple matter of prestidigitation. Saronia had openly held the seeds to draw his attentio while using her other hand to undo the cord holding a small bag shut.

"Gh…gh…"
"Looks like I got your entire left side this time. I gotta say, you did put up a fight. Normally, you would have undergone multiple organ failure by just breathing it i."

) or be knocked out cause of paralysis but as both would affect IB indirectly so only the non related parts were affected, which yogiri can't do as he affect his whole body as he can't still only deactivate 1 part without leading to death, again if he could like saronia target only 1 part without creating the side effect of death then yes it would work ( and before u say the organ failure is the side effect but he was still paralyzed, no she simply hit multiple places with seeds or pollen as the body parts hit are not functional for moving IB it's not affecting it indirectly , that's why he was able to still move when she hit the whole body instead of dying )


i see u keep ignoring everything and only try to get further with ur argument
 
Another poor poor response. You have thousands of edits and you are still terrible at this lmao. Apparently the eyes, nose, and ears aren't parts of the body. Your argument literally gets debunked simply by the fact that he can kill those. There was no line drawn that states he can't kill parts of the body and he explained why people died from intense pain and quite literally losing half of their body. Don't say good try when you don't know that eyes, ears, and noses are parts of the body. Hold up I got you https://www.theschoolrun.com/homework-help/parts-body this website will help you understand parts of the body for people of your stature. It's honestly sad how much you reach and fail.
You do realize that whole body attacks are effecting the entire body right? It's quite literally in the statement. Death to a body as a whole will of course get negated by IB which again is part of the body. The knocking uncon part is idiotic your attempts to compare the drainage of oxygen which flows through the body with the blood stream to instant death of a specific part of the body. Makes absolutely no sense. You're basing everything off of the after the effects but your examples are putrid to say the least. The rest of your argument is literally you repeating yourself anyways the point is yogiri can indeed effects parts without killing the whole and the claim was never that touma was gonna die from instant death.

-shows an example of yogiri killing parts of someone without dying

-Says "same would happen for yogiri as he still can't use it without killing someone"

You do realize your problem here? You deny the fact that eyes, ears, and noses are body parts and you are denying evidence itself I think you can't read tbh. Or are going through it right now. If the ability surpassed his negation then why are you even showing me it? Touma simply overpowered it with his might there is no indication or statements implying IB caused it. Simple response is that IB was negating the fumes. It's shown that he still effected by it on the side IB wasn't on this shows that IB requires interaction in order to negate it which won't be happening here. I am not denying anything your examples are terrible and you're claiming that yogiri effects all of the body after killing a part of it which makes no sense. The death that didn't come from a misfire were natural. Now show me touma negating something like natural death instead of oxygen drainage which is of course supernaturally and effects all of his body. Also she states that ", you did put up a fight. Normally, you would have undergone multiple organ failure by just breathing it in" Prove IB was causing this because touma does have a resistance to poison on his profile. Putting up a fight against it isn't negation in normal terms but if you bring an excerpt contradicting that I don't care because everyone here that was arguing for yogiri and even arguing for incon states that yogiri can kill parts without killing the entire thing. He did it on the petal and the other death were caused naturally like it or not. "i see u keep ignoring everything and only try to get further with ur argument" Lmao stay in your feelings I am not ignoring what you're saying I am responding to it what you are doing is ignoring arguments. Repeating yourself several times is just adding nonsensical filler onto your arguments that aren't even necesarry.
 
Nope he killed the sense that's why when they removed the nose, eyes and ears the still could not see smell or ear even if regenerated and again i asked body part u can't find it so u had to do this which is laughable as i already acknowledge that he can temporally remove his sense


lol resistance to poison is laughable , that was magic not poison, and it does not affect the body directly, only the mind but u didn't even brother to read the profile i linked (as always), u are really grasping the straw now


u have no intention of doing a discussion, i know by the fact u want to remove votes and not accept anything which does not fit ur narrative to the point of making as stomp and then draw back when called out


we can end it here at this point, u deny both novel quotes and had to create multiple account to get some votes (which i already advised the mods and they responded it was an obv case here)
 
Lmao those are parts of the body. Saying they are not literally denies human anatomy and logic itself. If he can take out parts of the face he can take out parts of the legs that would indeed alter the mobility of touma. If you acknowledge that he can take out that part then acknowledge that logically he is capable of doing the same on another body part and he has shown that he can.

That can easily be considered poison though.Toxins and poisonous fumes are considered poison. How am I grasping for straws? It was a question lmao. Grasping for straws and being desperate is the only thing you've been doing because you can't imagine your baby getting kiled. Hell you don't even know what you're saying you said was I triggered when I sent memes completely unrelated to the topic. The profile includes that the pollen comes from equipment hence why it isn't considered but dangerous fumes are considered poison like it or not. Touma has poison resistance and you have to send an excerpt that proves he negated it. Putting up a fight against it isn't negating it. Negating is completely decimating and erasing it.

Maybe if you had better arguments I would accept what you said but you are mentally incapable of doing so. Literally impossible. I asked you how it was stomp and you couldn't explain how and you made up your own official battle rules so yeah I would knock that nonsense off too. Keep crying though it won't change anything.

Prove i had to create mutliple accounts the mods can check the IP addresses and that will prove I did not make multiple accounts in order to vote. Nice excuse though let's ignore the accounts that voted for touma and have quite literally almost no edits. I never said those are alts but being the emotional lil dude you are that's your excuse when the votes are close. I didn't deny novel quotes once. All you've been doing is disregarding evidence and screeching nonsensical things. I mean I am never gonna end it if you don't end it but yea run along I don't care. I can do this for enterity.
 
TheMonsterOfTheAbyss said:
Disagreeing with your interpretation is now denying the novel huh, oh well.
Click to expand...
again tell me where yogiri can kill a body part like arms or legs (cause those are ur arguments) without leading to a person death cause we do have a quote where it leads to death, while some here are claiming that he can simply deactivate it without consequence natural or unnatural


btw i did call for a check on the thread to close it for inconc as it's going for too long and since i was there i asked to check the vote accounts, the mods reviewed it i din't ask specifically for on side or the other , the mods themselves took it up to rule violations
 
Him killing the arm only died because of the fact that the person couldn't take the death of the arm. Wasn't arguing that he would kill the arm. I said he will kill parts of the legs that will cause his mobility to mess up. He kills parts of the body such as ears and noses no reason why he can't kill with other small parts. It all depends if the opponent can take the shock or not. Or it is determined on how much is taken out. If kills the head the opponents dies naturally. If he kills half of the person they die naturally. Killing someone's arm who can't take it will cause natural death. Based on what was stated touma can take that without problems so I don't see why he can't kill parts of his legs.

Idc tell them to check IP addresses.
 
SoulRebell said:
Him killing the arm only died because of the fact that the person couldn't take the death of the arm. Wasn't arguing that he would kill the arm. I said he will kill parts of the legs that will cause his mobility to mess up. He kills parts of the body such as ears and noses no reason why he can't kill with other small parts. It all depends if the opponent can take the shock or not. Or it is determined on how much is taken out. If kills the head the opponents dies naturally. If he kills half of the person they die naturally. Killing someone's arm who can't take it will cause natural death. Based on what was stated touma can take that without problems so I don't see why he can't kill parts of his legs.
Idc tell them to check IP addresses.
Click to expand...
again u see no reason why when the novel states otherwise .....................


can we have the part were yogiri manages to kill a leg or arm without killing the opponent in the end, cause u said that negation vento spell without specifying how was too vague and did not count so i had to bring other examples

and btw it was not only shook that killed him, if parts dies blood stop flowing and necrosis starts to spread , that's why even now we still can't salvage human parts and have to cut whole legs or arms, there is no ned to tell u what happens if u stop the blood from flowing even for a second

"Left arm."

His next target had a leopard's face. It worked, but once again his target died soon after.
A sudden occurrence of medical 'dysfunction in one's left arm: There may be people capable of surviving it, but some might just die from the shock.'


and touma is not immune to a shook or normal damage he can tank impacts but if something penetrates it's useless as we have here


1 "But Anti-Skill took action before she could finish speaking.
Several gunshots rang out and Kamijou Touma felt intense pain explosively expand through his body.
It felt like a scorching object was ripping through him.
All strength left his right hand and the power drill fell to the ground. Even while he still did not understand why he had lost strength in his arm, he could feel that lack of strength spreading throughout his entire body.
He could not even work up the strength to look down at his own body.
And in the next moment, Kamijou collapsed down to the asphalt. His consciousness lost its continuity and he could only catch intermittent bits of what was going on around him."


2 "Once it had all ended and an ambulance's siren rang through the night, the familiar boy's arms and legs had been convulsing in a disturbing way she had never seen before.
"Stand back! Damn, he's gone into shock. Just leave this to us!!"
The EMT's tense voice had suggested this was a shocking sight even to those people who were used to scenes of bloodshed.
"The sharp fragments of a ruptured fuel tank tore into his stomach. You have to do something about that at least!"
"I know! But we can't do anything right now. He's convulsing from the shock, so any attempt at treatment would only open the wound further!"


now it's ur turn, stop playing the flat earther card of "u only have to show proof, i have to show nothing"
 
"His next target had a leopard's face. 'It worked, but once again his target died soon after.
A sudden occurrence of medical 'dysfunction in one's left arm: There may be people capable of surviving it, but some might just die from the shock."

The death doesn't come from yogiri it comes naturally dude to the dude not being able to take it. Yogiri quite literally indicate that he didn't cause the death of the dude but the shock or medical dysfunction occured did. This shows he can kill a body part such as an arm without killing the person, he himself states. "There may be people capable of surviving it" Meaning people who can take the shock and pain of losing an arm such as touma based on what you yourself stated.


The proof was given reaching isn't going to get you anywhere.
 
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