The time has come: Yogiri vs Touma REDUX

[Malox1696]

It is written in the profile on why he doesn't permanently erase esper power or mana : Though it can negate anything supernatural, it cannot negate natural forces from the supernatural such as a person's life force

Both esper and mana are refined life force , to put in a simple way he can negate the refined oil but not the raw material, this make it so esper and magicians are fine after contact, yogiri does not have a similar system and seems to be from strictly super natural origin, if u want to bring the argument that it's the same as esper I can accept if u explain it but at least it would be removed as along as IB is in contact with it like the others

By anything I mean a metal or wood stick on the ground or if like u say yogiri destroy a light post then metal part of it , touma generally will use anything to gain victory if it does not kill (like a gun) he even used cocking appliance just last novel (electric stove , boiling water, etc)

Will later post the part about the clothes

 

[Malox1696]

Quote:He removed his jacket and wrapped it around his left arm. A moment later, Vasilisa's crimson flames expanded. The explosive flames quickly approached while instantly melting the snow on the ground. There was nowhere to evade to, so negating it with his right hand was the only option. As he twisted his body and raised his right hand, Sasha approached from a different angle to slice him. She swung her saw horizontally to tear through his chest from the side. But Kamijou had not removed his jacket in order to deal with Vasilisa's flames. If he used his right hand to deal with those, he had known he would have to handle the next attack without his right hand. "!!" The serrated saw blade tore into the jacket wrapped around his arm, but it did not reach his skin. (My right hand destroyed that crowbar, so the same should work here!!) He swung his left arm as hard as he could and threw aside the jacket, but the jacket did not even fall to the ground. Several long narrow scraps came apart and blew in the wind."

Quote:"Once he realized the one arm would not move in the slightest, Hamazura swung the other one. However, Kamijou already knew what to do next. He removed his jacket and, like a bullfighter, dodged to the side at the last possible second. The coat remained behind and got caught on the steel arm. Specifically, the moving parts of the unprotected elbow bit into it. This stopped the other arm. A human body would lose its sense of balance if the arms stopped moving. A common experiment had people run for fifty meters with their hands tied behind their back. That alone was enough for people to lose their balance. So what would happen when it was a heavy Power Lifter that had thrown off its center of gravity by swinging its fists with all its might? A tremendous crash reached Kamijou's ears."

Quote:"He desperately suppressed a scream and tried to find a weapon, but the limp mattress and U-shaped toilet seat were the only options. He had so little to work with, it felt like playing an escape game with only two things you could click on. He had no choice but to remove his pants. He tied a knot in the ankles and stuffed his shoes inside the legs. That did not provide much weight, but if he swung it around, the centrifugal force would turn it into a light flail."

The last one was never used tho as resolved peacefully

 

[Malox1696]

Yogiri can foresee where he is going to move tho and counteract that. Experience is useless if you fighting someone that is like no other opponent. Which is the situation here unless there's an excerpt that proves otherwise. I don't see how any of those touma fought are like him. The sword is just how he is gonna take him out the death diversion and the precog are some of the biggest factors here.

Excuse me what ? What do u mean he never fought someone like him ?

 

[SoulRebell]

lmfao you should read what is being stated instead of picking out parts completely out of context. "unless there's an excerpt that proves otherwise" I asked for an excerpt of which there was an instance touma fought someone like yogiri. I already explained what yogiri is like quite literally several times.

 

[Malox1696]

If u mean someone that can rob his vision have a sword and some form of precog, then yes he fought similar opponents that had 2 or 3 of those characteristics : Marian, othinus, Carissa, acqua, Oriana, the plant Russian magician, the dragon version of himself without IB

He arguably fought some better version of yogiri like othinus at least as a match up for him

 

[SoulRebell]

Can you explain how they are similar to yogiri not only that but if they don't have both of the same ability and the potential to take him out it's quite irrelevant. One at a time can be dealt with but a combo of the ability is completely different. Robbing him of his senses and causing himself to leave himself open based on his subconscious taking over to negate the effects. The subconscious thing is what you said btw. Also the precog has to be as advanced as yogiri who's precog is quite obviously much superior than touma's.

 

[PhantomØ4]

"It is written in the profile on why he doesn't permanently erase esper power or mana : Though it can negate anything supernatural, it cannot negate natural forces from the supernatural such as a person's life force"

Since it did not say anything like trying to justify it I did not see the connection, but considering that Yogiri gets tired after using it a lot consecutevley it certainly has some connection to his stamina or something akin.

Light poles are quite big, you know that right? I doubt he can use them with his lifting strenght. I can see a wood stick being a possibility but it will really just help him close the range a bit and it might break after only a few uses along the other things like an actual weapon being far more effective.

 

[Malox1696]

If they get destroyed by yogiri like u said he can just pick a pice of light pole metal not the entire thing , but literally anything he can pick up if can even a trash bin

 

[SoulRebell]

It seriously has gotten to the point where you have to argue touma will use a trash bin to beat yogiri...

 

[SoulRebell]

So not having any prior knowledge of what his opponent can do or what he will do he would rip off the top of a light pole and fight with it? Or is it gonna be after yogiri gets close to him and he runs away to grab one? Either way the death of the item and the death of him are two inevitable things.

 

[Malox1696]

It seriously has gotten to the point where you have to argue touma will use a trash bin to beat yogiri...

Nothing new , he literally trashed his clothes to seal on his opponents moves, he literally is someone that uses anything to achieve his victory , trash bin was just an example it could really be anything he thinks can give him an advantage , that the reason he talks soo much during his fights, to create openings and weaken the opponent

 

[Malox1696]

Can you explain how they are similar to yogiri not only that but if they don't have both of the same ability and the potential to take him out it's quite irrelevant. One at a time can be dealt with but a combo of the ability is completely different. Robbing him of his senses and causing himself to leave himself open based on his subconscious taking over to negate the effects. The subconscious thing is what you said btw. Also the precog has to be as advanced as yogiri who's precog is quite obviously much superior than touma's.

All could kill him

Btw I said subconscious action, not that his subconscious takes over

 

[MostPowerfull]

Yogiri FRA.

 

[Malox1696]

So not having any prior knowledge of what his opponent can do or what he will do he would rip off the top of a light pole and fight with it? Or is it gonna be after yogiri gets close to him and he runs away to grab one? Either way the death of the item and the death of him are two inevitable things.

Dude, I literally mean as an example if yogiri like u said , kills a light pole to make it fall on him he could pick up one part that broke , not that he takes out the whole thing

 

[SoulRebell]

Point was things like that won't do anything. Precog and the fact that he can kill several things at once and can do it in quick succession. Objects like that are irrelevant. Ok now can you explain how they are anything like yogiri and how the combat situations were the same as the one that he is gonna be in?

 

[Malox1696]

Well they will help as yogiri can't kill them if they are in his right hand

Leaving aside the obv and more powerful othinus

Carissa has precog and a sword + much faster and other spell, plus Carissa was capable of temporarily remove his vision by simply creating a giant wall in front of him that he could not negate (which she used both to block and crush him)

Orianna had limited precog similar to touma and spell to bot kill him and block him and the cqc advantage

Marian did lack precog but had studied way to by pass IB, she could create ranges attack capable of killing him like sword slash but completely natural + temporarily seal him in an enclosed space which robbed him of his vision until negated

The dragon version of touma is simply touma ability given sentience + IB+ all touma memories and precog+ big dragon body with deadly claw

 

[SoulRebell]

Uh no they won't as stated the subconscious action of touching his head will be required depending the object each time it will be needed to be dropped. Either way grabbing an item also leaves him susceptible to damage. Objects that are only useful if thrown are extremely irrelevant. You aren't going to find a good weapon in central park. Wooden sticks are quite irrelevant against a japanese blade especially since this is someone who has better precog than him, himself. Along with the capability of reading his movement by simply watching him.

Ok explain how her precog is and explain how it is superior or comparable to yogiri's. Creating a wall is completely different from killing the eye of an opponent. I don't even know why you brought that up. Can she attack him with her sword beyond that wall? I don't think so but if you have an excerpt saying otherwise please bring it. Also the excerpt needs to include the fact that he can't see her while she is attacking him with her sword. Blocking and crushing him is nothing like yogiri once again a false equivalence.

So instinctive reactions significantly inferior to yogiri's precog so this is irrelevant kek. "bot kill him" what? I don't know if this is an error or not but I digress she doesn't induce blindness that would cause him to be even weaker in cqc. How did she have the cqc advantage and can you prove touma was fighting her in a similar situation as this? Because her profile says she was fighting another character at the same time. Once again ignorant about to aru so correct me if I am wrong with evidence. Is the cqc advantage anything like foreseeing everyone of his movements before he does it? If not once again a false equivalence.

First problem is that she lacks precog. This is one of the biggest factors in this fight the fact that she lacks it. Already gives me the feeling that this is a false equivalence but I shall read on. Bypassing IB and foreseeing what he does before he does it is not the same kek. I don't see how her creating a sword slash makes it so she's similar to yogiri at all. Yogiri might not be able to do this but he has other strength in which I am noting that isn't the same as her. Is marian able to attack him with his sword while his vision is robbed in said enclosed space? If not then it's irrelevant I think you already sent the excerpt of him negating it. He was non stop negating it and she wasn't attacking him that excerpt. Bring another exceprt if what I am concluding is wrong either way. Point still stands she isn't able to see what touma is gonna do before he does it. Knowledge of the ability=/=seeing what is being done far before it's done. Another false equivalence

Uh yeah touma and yogiri are not similar. Dragon version based on what you stated was taking out his senses in order to attack him. He just also had the instinctive reaction and a claw. Nothing special nor is like anything I stated. His precog is inferior and uhhhhhhhhhhh false equivalence. Before you say I am just denying what you are saying that's not the case I brought up why they don't relate. These examples are horrible.

 

[Malox1696]

1 u are saying his precog is much superior, why ?

2 u asked for similar opponent not same, did u maybe mean " did touma fight yogiri lost twin ?" Obviously he didn't fight a copy of yogiri in his novel or we would not have this argument

3 and again what ur argument with this ? That his cqc experience would not count ?

Btw if u actually brothered to actually check profile u would see that yes Carissa can cut the wall with her sword, ur "don't think so " make u sound just prideful

 

[SoulRebell]

1. To point out neither are like him and the levels of precog can change the outcome of a fight. Simple as that. He has no experience dealing with someone who has precog on said level. It's like having a brawler who has weaker physicals than another. They aren't the same you get checked by the one with superior physicals even if the have a similar fighting style.

2. I asked for him having experience with an opponent like him. If he has no experience facing someone with the level of his stuff and his style then the experience point doesn't matter much at all. If those are the only examples. Experience really doesn't change anything at all.

3. The argument was concerning on how experience would alter the effects of the battle. And if experience would help him deal with an opponent like yogiri which it won't atm.

 

[Malox1696]

-

 

[SoulRebell]

That wasn't what I was saying. I meant blocking his vision entirely while attacking. if you want me to see the profiles send links.

 

[Malox1696]

Nope ur argument is beyond baseless

1 both touma and yogiri precog are comparable

2 that would be stupid u are saying that if x character did not fight y character even tho he fought similar character, it does not matter cause it was not a carbon copy

3 yes experience does count yogiri never been in to a brawl

 

[SoulRebell]

1. No they don't prove they do. Prove touma's precog which can hardly even be considered precog since it's more instinctive reaction based on what is being stated is comparable to seeing shade errors the indicate future danger and the trajectory hours after what is happening at that moment. Nothing you provided proves that touma's precog is comparable don't call my argument's beyond baseless when you literally make claims you haven't even supported.

2. Seems you have difficulties understanding what is being stated. It's like I have to chew it up to simplify it then spit it back at you like we are birds out here. If the characters do not have all of the things which are being used and thrown at touma at once then the comparsion to them and yogiri are not equal, You just found character which pick and choose some of the abilities yogiri had although on an extremely smaller level based on what you stated. I am not saying that I am just saying that the experience of fighting someone like yogiri isn't there. None of those characters are doing what yogiri is doing. They lack things that has. So if they are lacking things that they have then why would touma have experience in fighting people like yogiri when they aren't like yogiri?

3. Yogiri has fought in cqc tho lol. The excerpt against the mutli armed monkey was sent. He isn't going to freeze up or cry like some punk he has shown to take a cqc situation calmly. Idk why you're riding off experience so bad when you can't even explain how the experiences touma has been in compare to the one he is about to be in.

 

[SoulRebell]

Another example you're comparing someone who got hands to someone who don't. Skill level different. Therefore the experience gonna be different. Simple as that.

 

[Malox1696]

1 in the context of combat they are the same, read touma profile for once, it takes info from the environment and opponent it can't be used to predict 1 hour ahead but it does not matter in a fight as yogiri predicts danger zone A (not IB) and moves to dodge, touma precog predict yogiri is gonna dodge , change from zone a to B and etc

2 again what u are asking does not exist, if he fought a character with literally the same abilities as him we would not be having this thread, he fought with people with similar abilities either partially or fully so yes it does count

3 brawl is different from dodging everything, yogiri only ever fought going by precog and never expecting to actually get hit so when the precog does not work well and he actually gets hit real battle experience does count both for technies and strategy


Brawl actually means getting hit

 

[Accelerate420]

Oh my goodness, when will this end.

 

[SoulRebell]

Rip I typed up an argument then deleted it. whatever shouldn't be too hard to respond again.

1. The fact that he can see farther into the future than touma proves he has superior precog like it or not. He will know what is being done prior to it being done like it or not. Taking info from the environment? Ok how is that even comparable to seeing the hazards and trajectory of things hours into the future? He knows nothing of his opponent from the jump of the fight. So that's irrelevant until later. But if the fight is drawn on even a little then yogiri will be able to grasp his moments like he did against the mutli armed monkey. Grasping his moments and comprehending how he fights gives him a big advantage. Add that up with the trajectory and hazard reading it's a wrap. The point of yogiri and touma having equal precog is honestly disapointing I don't know why you would even claim that then you attempt to spin it in a way that still makes absolutely no sense. This isn't a cat mouse game you're acting as if one of the characters aren't going to attack but simply run away. It definitely won't be the one foreseeing things far into the future and has superior range also the same person who can one shot with his sword. Touma can run around as much as he likes it won't change the fact that ID will be killing parts of him and he would subconsciously react like you stated by touching his head. Still basing a poor comparsion to prove why reading the hazards of IB won't work. X ray vison really? Not even close to the same ability like it or not. Two completely seperate things. You do seem to have a problem with bad comparsions. I don't understand.

2. So he hasn't experienced it. It's not partial it's everything and stronger. He has no experience against it all and it being stronger. Therefore the experience is irrelevant.

3. He won't be getting hit. Not the true definition of a brawl but if you want to consider it a brawl it won't be you are giving touma to much praise. Assuming he will get a chance to physically attack someone with superior range and precog. I really don't understand what you're trying to get at. What possible strat can come up with that will save him? Something logical and in character because everything so far has been futile. Even going as far as to say he will use trash cans and sticks.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I agree with Soul's reasoning

Yogiri wins

 

[Oma-Zi_o022]

Rip I typed up an argument then deleted it. whatever shouldn't be too hard to respond again.

1. The fact that he can see farther into the future than touma proves he has superior precog like it or not. He will know what is being done prior to it being done like it or not. Taking info from the environment? Ok how is that even comparable to seeing the hazards and trajectory of things hours into the future? He knows nothing of his opponent from the jump of the fight. So that's irrelevant until later. But if the fight is drawn on even a little then yogiri will be able to grasp his moments like he did against the mutli armed monkey. Grasping his moments and comprehending how he fights gives him a big advantage. Add that up with the trajectory and hazard reading it's a wrap. The point of yogiri and touma having equal precog is honestly disapointing I don't know why you would even claim that then you attempt to spin it in a way that still makes absolutely no sense. This isn't a cat mouse game you're acting as if one of the characters aren't going to attack but simply run away. It definitely won't be the one foreseeing things far into the future and has superior range also the same person who can one shot with his sword. Touma can run around as much as he likes it won't change the fact that ID will be killing parts of him and he would subconsciously react like you stated by touching his head. Still basing a poor comparsion to prove why reading the hazards of IB won't work. X ray vison really? Not even close to the same ability like it or not. Two completely seperate things. You do seem to have a problem with bad comparsions. I don't understand.

2. So he hasn't experienced it. It's not partial it's everything and stronger. He has no experience against it all and it being stronger. Therefore the experience is irrelevant.

3. He won't be getting hit. Not the true definition of a brawl but if you want to consider it a brawl it won't be you are giving touma to much praise. Assuming he will get a chance to physically attack someone with superior range and precog. I really don't understand what you're trying to get at. What possible strat can come up with that will save him? Something logical and in character because everything so far has been futile. Even going as far as to say he will use trash cans and sticks.

How yogiri precog works. you have scan?

 

[Oma-Zi_o022]

.

 

[PhantomØ4]

What's with the spam? Chill and don't quote wall of texts. I'll get the scans.

 

[PhantomØ4]

1. 1

""We should've at least asked if it had something like a vehicle. Was there a reason we had to leave that abruptly?"

『Mhm, agreed. If we had been a little more pesty we could have probably gotten a whole lot more out of that robot.』

Tomochika asked and the floating Mokomoko chimed in.

"Was risky to stick around there, too much shadow. I've told you about being able to sense stuff like killing intent and life hazards, right?"

"Yeah, that you can sort of see them. Kind of like Morihei Ueshiba, right?"

"Who?"

"He was this famous Aikido master, legend says he was able to dodge bullets, apparently because he could see their trajectories like light rays before they were even fired."

"Might be something similar then, yeah. Although in my case it's less like light rays and more like black lines, kind of like shadows. The whole area at the train was covered in that shadow and it was getting even denser pretty quickly. Like 30 percent""

2. (Note that since they first parted with the robot its been at least an hour given that Yogiri had enough time to even go to sleep, the shadows just get darker as the moment for the thing to happen gets closer)

""He wouldn't feel like planning as the annihilation of the 'Immortality Corps' was shown. It was supposed to settle the current problem with this. However, Yogiri's face wasn't cheerful.

"What is it? Is there still something?" (Tomochika)

"Although I had thought the origin was this 'Immortality Corps', it appears it wasn't like that. The gloom is continuing to grow darker. That thing was felt outside of the town." (Yogiri)

It was something he felt in the middle of coming to this town when they had separated from the robot.""

 

[Malox1696]

3. He won't be getting hit. .

and there we have it folks, not only u don't read the profiles u don't even read the site rules, if ur argument for a win is that he will never get hit (will not happen as ur reasoning is just pure downplay and wank) that's stomp not a win at the very least check the rules site before making arguments


1 its comparable cause when yogiri moves to dodge precogs kick in and adjust but yogiri too will adjust and so on and on , unless u are saying that is fate based and can predict the predictions, in that case it would 100% not work on touma and not only IB, both work by the environment and adjust to the changes, seeing far does not matter if there are changes u can't account for , and again with the x -ray vision, it was just an example,

ur argument is still > IB will not work on precog cause precog does not interact with it but at the same it will interact by sensing the danger coming from it

which is contradicting urself (not that u care)

2 stronger ... stronger , can u please stop with the wank ? carissa is a much worse opponent for touma than yogiri as ID will only work to rob sense for him in this case while carissa not only can achieve a similar and not negetable phenom and block his vision and at the same time attack + having precog, she had much better speed (MS vs PH) , physical power (6C vs 9C), and even had many form of ranged attack, not even counting his fight with othinus that can actually do what yogiri can't, instantly kill him with no counter, again this is u not even trying to do some research when we have the profile on this site to read

3 leaving aside ur argument that is self defeating but i guess u are just that prideful, he will simply deal with him the same way he dealt with any other person with a weapon against him, with FAR more comabat experience he would simply disarm him

and what do u mean by " Something logical and in character because everything so far has been futile. " cause literally part from the novel are not IC and futile ? i posted them, in combat situation against armed opponent touma does use anything that he can find as a stop gap, i can post them all but it will take the entire thread, but i can tell u when and where tho, from the top of my mind : the 3 parts i posted before , using an aluminum bar he broke from an in flight cart to beat up the armed plane terrorist in vol. ot 17, using a glass bullet proof window he found to deal with gun wielding opponents in vol. ss1 and in the latest novel using literally anything in the room from knife too cooking pans to deal with the dragon version of himself. this are thing he did IC and logically, and we know that he was fighting against armed espers with AC advanced weapons even before the novel started


but i guess there is no point talking as by ur own word u consider everything i say futile and illogical

 

[SoulRebell]

And there we have it you quite literally have the worst comprehension skills I've ever seen on this website. The versus thread rules states that "Kindly do not create spite or stomp threads, whether by tier, speed or an absurd difference in hax proficiency (that is, a very hax character vs one with little to no hax) unless the other character possesses abilities that compensate for this advantage.". This for isn't the case here. The stats are similar and both characters have something that will allow them to challenge eachother on an arguably equal level. You act as if there isn't more than one possibility in a fight. There's situations where touma wins but Yogiri most definitely have a better chance based on this argument. I am downplaying but I am asking you questions and requesting excerpts from to aru. And I quite literally stated I was ignorant about the topic. I was asking you to tell me things and I was taking those things and you still seem to struggle with explaining how touma will beat yogiri. It's honestly baffling. No where in the rules does it state that if one character doesn't get hit then it's a stomp but if you can provide where it does then things change. But if there's a win condition for both characters it shouldn't be considered a stomp. Hell even the rules are equal it's just the arguments for touma make absolutely no sense and they are mainly desperate reaches which is an obvious indication that you believe that touma can't beat yogiri. Hell I can already tell you believe that yogiri wins with all these deseperate attempts of trying to make it so he doesn't get a win on his record. There is really no reason for me to wank yogiri I like him equally as I like touma which means I don't. Now I will start to devolve into why you're arguments are invalid.
1. Yogiri's precog won't just suddenly kick in it's passive and he will always see the hazards hours before the hazards arrive. This means the trajectory of wherever touma goes will be read before he does it. He can change it mid way but if yogiri were to kill his leg and it doesn't have to be both as he has shown to be able to do this without killing his opponent. This limits his mobility and his precog again was stated to read the trajectory so killing the leg while he attempts to move is an extremely logical possibility. He did it quite easily early in the series too. It's not fate based but touma subconsciously knows nothing of yogiri's precog. Also you seem to have to problem with ignoring the range advantage that also allows him to take out touma like it or not. You state yogiri can't account for the changes which is the most ignorant thing I've seen you say and you've been saying ignorant things. You assume touma will have the advantage in motion and mobility but this makes absolutely no sense since yogiri can see the lines in which all of touma's body trajectory is going to move. And touma's precog is based on anticapating attacks like his profile states. Don't start whining about this statement because you told me to use the profile. "Precognition is the term used by characters to refer to the skill unconsciously developed by Kamijou Touma through his many battles. Touma has gotten into such a plethora of fights that he now can subconsciously anticipate attacks coming his way. ". So his precog is not conscious simply him moving on instinict which will not save him especially since on instinict he will require to negate the parts of him that get killed. Such as his legs which will indeed get killed since that is what yogiri already did. His senses. And somehow you believe that touma will not be open to damage that is coming from a character with again superior precog and you have no been capable of refuting this point. Instead of refuting it you attempted to change what you talking about and still failed. In this battle reading the trajectory and seeing it 100% clearly for hours on end. Is still far more useful than moving on instinict. The X ray vision was an example of a false equivalence which makes comparing them highly fallacious. Like it or not.
I wasn't contradicting myself I was steelmanning for you. To show that even if it didn't work on IB it still won't change the fact that yogiri can still kill him. You are acting as if yogiri is blind if it doesn't work on IB. Yogiri somehow can't grasp the motion of one arm that will be busy negating the death on him like you stated he would. Negating the effects on his legs that ultimately end his mobility and his senses which ultimately end his perception of yogiri. Steelmanning and seeing it from your perspective makes an argument stronger because I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. I am not gonna just tell you things I am gonna teach you at the same time. It's not interacting it is simply reading the dangers coming from said arm. Anyways you need to give me an example that proves that he will be able to negate something like that. X ray vision is a false equivalence which then makes it invalid and any comparsion is highly illogical.
2. Hahahahahahaha. Good job at taking what I stated out of context genius. " It's not partial it's everything and stronger. He has no experience against it all and it being stronger. Therefore the experience is irrelevant.". I quite obviously am talking about the abilities which have similarites to yogiri. Such as precog you didn't prove that they had superior precog than yogiri. The disconnection of his senses and his lower half. You are bringing up nonsense. You are comparing creating a wall infront of her opponent to quite literally taking away the senses of his opponent. Blocking the vision is not the same as taking it out completely. One is superior and that is taking out the vision itself this very point will be agreed upon by anyone who you ask that has at least 46 chromosomes. I am trying to refrain from my ignorant antics but shit what you say really brings that out of me. You didn't explain how her precog is superior than yogiri's yet. "allowing her to feel the flow of battle and enemies and enabling her to react faster and perform attacks with higher precision." This is most definitely not even comparable. Feeling the flow a battle is so vague and not comparable to the precise hazard reading and the grasping of moment yogiri has like it or not. So yeah in two cases where the character had a " similar" ability yogiri is still above of those abilities no matter what you say. Bringing up speed and power is more irrelevant than your opinion on whether I am wanking or not. And that literally means nothing. You aren't even going indepth on how the battle went or how touma was capable of fighting a character several tiers beyond himself. You didn't even explain how othinus uses the same tactic yogiri is gonna use in this fight. And I have read her profile nothing in her profile is like what is gonna be done in this battle. When you are you gonna stop screeching about me researching and start actually debating your point. I am asking you questions about it and you're struggling for some reason. Thought you research was straight. But anyways this has became you complaining and spewing nonsensical attempts to explain why touma would win when in most conditions he won't.
3. There's no reason why I shouldn't be prideful. Everyone of your arguments are being refuted and it's always fun to see someone desperately grasp for straws. I can do this forever I don't care. You seem to just be repeating yourself then dip to only comeback to repeat yourself. It's a cycle that is in the end pointless and honestly should end. His combat experience again won't save him in this situation. Whatever he uses to disarm since it's the jacket that you keep riding it will be killed making it useless. And before you say he will have it the hand IB can you show him subconsciously erasing the effects of losing his senses and the lower half of himself while attempting to disarm yogiri. It's highly illogical that you think this will happen it's not like he can react to ID it summons upon him and doesn't even travel. At this point you are only banking off of experience yet again touma doesn't have experience against something like yogiri. At the level and with the abilities like yogiri. Not similar abilities in inferior like creating a wall. What you were you thinking lmfao? Aint even kek at this point it's cringe.
I accept the fact that touma will try to use a weapon if he finds one. But in central park you won't find anything that yogiri can't kill or is comparable to yogiri's sword. His jacket will be killed I already made the claim that if it was in the hand that holds IB then it will need to focus on losing mobility and his senses. You yourself stated he needed to put his hand on that area. ID is extremely spammable. No reason why he wouldn't do this especially since he has 50 meters to tactically decide what to do in cqc. Not to mention his precog is still there to foresee where the objects are heading so anything he picks up in central park or uses will become FUTILE. I know you are getting flustered when I state such things so I brought some nice pictures for you to calm down with. I used to be like you when I am getting overwhelmed I get flustered but then I started to meditate it honestly helps. 2 times a day for 10 mins is absolutely wonderful you should try it. This isn't related to the debate but I am being serious none of those jerk antics I was pulling earlier in the debate and still am pulling cuz I can xhyeckers. None of those espers or terriorist can be compared to yogiri. It doesn't matter if they are superior than him in a specific category. DIfferent characters. Different abilites. different level of skill . Too many differences.
If you are bringing up illogical and Futile arguments I am going to call it out and explain why I consider said arguments illogical or futile. Which I been doing the entire time. If you find it pointless you can leave I can do this forever. Also here are the pictures. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EE18jKXWwAEFCNN.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EE5M3tLUwAUDenS.png:large
They are pretty epix you can thank me right not or later your choice. I would bold futile but it's too much work so you'll have to take this ig.

 

[Malox1696]

so u back padding on the fact that u said " . He won't be getting hit. " ? as u now realize u dough the grave of ur argument ? well gj

"He can change it mid way but if yogiri were to kill his leg and it doesn't have to be both as he has shown to be able to do this without killing his opponent. " no he hasn't shown it

"not interacting it is simply reading the dangers coming from said arm "

again with the self contradicting arguments if there is reading there is interaction

and again u are literally asking " has touma fought yogiri before ? doesn't matter if he fought someone similar , i only accept it if he fought yogiri before" which again would defeat the point of this whole thread

and again u are ignoring the fact that stuff touched by IB won't get killed as along as it's touching it

and at this point we can see it's u who is grasping for straw as u are literally posting memes and don't want to accept that 1) yogiri still has to show that he can affect 1 part without killing the whole 2) precog in combat will negate each other as they have the same functionality 3) IB can negate ID for stuff that is touching it

and i can see u are quite triggered by all simply by this part " I know you are getting flustered when I state such things so I brought some nice pictures for you to calm down with. I used to be like you when I am getting overwhelmed I get flustered but then I started to meditate it honestly helps. 2 times a day for 10 mins is absolutely wonderful you should try it. This isn't related to the debate but I am being serious none of those jerk antics I was pulling earlier in the debate and still am pulling cuz I can xhyeckers. None of those espers or terriorist can be compared to yogiri. It doesn't matter if they are superior than him in a specific category. Different characters. Different abilites. different level of skill . Too many differences. "

so either u are the biggest troll on the site or u truly believe ur opinion will always be better than other cause it's ur and can't accept other reason

u are literally asking what people are FRA for touma and should be removed cause u can't accept other opinions or votes " his is getting quite off topic but anyways I don't see why touma's votes should be considered when the arguments being made for him we refuted by not 1 but 2 people. And the one person who is being fra'd to is ignoring arguments completely. "

at this point i understand is pointless to discuss with u as u started from removing votes as u can't accept other out come to "TOUMA WILL NOT HIT YOGIRI" and once u realized that would actually fall in to a stomp u back paddle saying , there are different out come and touma can win literally denying what u said the post before " You act as if there isn't more than one possibility in a fight. There's situations where touma wins "

 

[SoulRebell]

How does that dig a grave for my argument? You aren't even debating anymore at this point it is you complaining as if I stole something for you. Yes he have the excerpts were sent to you I don't see the point in denying it. Good job with all fo the texas sharpshooter truly strengthens your argument. Somehow reading and interacting are the same to you. Interaction:act in such a way as to have an effect on another; act reciprocally. Read: look at and comprehend the meaning of (written or printed matter) by mentally interpreting the characters or symbols of which it is composed.. Please elaborate how they correlate. Reading offers up no effect on the arm deny it if you want. It doesn't change the facts.

What are you quoting? You didn't quote me at all you just utterly strawmanned me. Keep doing that too your argument will become even worse. I said something like yogiri not yogiri exactly. The differences in the characters being brought forth are too major and that's what I am saying. Strawmanning me doesn't make it so you debunked my argument. You are debunking an imaginary argument you created.

I literally considered that several times. You aren't reading what is being sent at you. Literal quote from me " And before you say he will have it the hand IB can you show him subconsciously erasing the effects of losing his senses and the lower half of himself while attempting to disarm yogiri. It's highly illogical that you think this will happen it's not like he can react to ID it summons upon him and doesn't even travel. At this point you are only banking off of experience yet again touma doesn't have experience against something like yogiri. At the level and with the abilities like yogiri. Not similar abilities in inferior like creating a wall. What you were you thinking lmfao? Aint even kek at this point it's cringe." Another one "But in central park you won't find anything that yogiri can't kill or is comparable to yogiri's sword. His jacket will be killed I already made the claim that if it was in the hand that holds IB then it will need to focus on losing mobility and his senses. You yourself stated he needed to put his hand on that area. ID is extremely spammable.". Two instances where I brought how IB will indeed negate the death of whatever is it's hand. But I also explained why the fact that it's hand won't matter. Since he indeed has to subconsciously negate the problems in his body parts aside from the parts that IB resides in which indeed limits him. So if you want to say that's the arm he is carrying the weapon in then it won't be in use since he will be busy touching himself with that arm while yogiri will be slashing him.
Posting memes=grasping for straws? What? I am telling to not get flustered and emotional I love all people I find special. He has tho. The excerpt was sent to you, denying it is pointless. Even if you want to deny the fact that it does. You do realize if you lose half of your body you die right? Not by death manipulation but by the fact that you lost a massive portion in an instant. He has shown to kill an eye of the opponent it just seems that killing massive portions is what truly is the problem rather than small parts. The beastman got his eye healed and didn't completely died. He killed a petal and the flower didn't completely die. It's quite obvious what the situation is here. Being deseperate must suck. Precog won't negate eachother because the precog isnt the only factor here. You are acting as if it is because you like to ignore the fact that ID will indeed hinder the use of one of touma's arms. BEcause like you said verbatim " Btw I said subconscious action, not that his subconscious takes over". He will be unaware of himself negating the parts that are hindered. Meaning he can't control it and even if he did he will be severly weakend since he's messing parts. The death is byfactor of killing a large portion of him that was obvious. They even explained the anatomy of the character. Which heavily implies that he wasn't ID that caused the death but the fact that he loss a large portion of himself. Again IB negating ID mid combat will weaken him and allow yogiri to slice him deny it if you want but it's facts. You assume IB will be negating the effects, holding the weapon, and be defending touma all at once. Makes no sense at all.

lmfao what you mad for? Seems like you aren't fond of my recommendation. I was being serious. You are getting far too emotional it's just cartoon characters. How am I triggered when I am chillling, sending memes, and telling you to meditate. I find that quite the opposite. I am happy to be honest I am in the best shape mentally and physically than I been in awhile so there's no reason for me to be mad. Actually I find it hilarous that you are trying so hard and failing. I am open to other opinions but your arguments on why are terrible and getting debunked left and right.
I asked what are the fraing to being if it is you it should be invalid. Your arguments have been moot and your explanation on why touma should win makes no sense. This is your act of desperation? Really? kinda sad but complaining won't do anything. Accepting others opinions=/=not accepting terrible arguments.

The outcome that is most likely is that touma won't hit yogiri like it or not. And how is that back paddling? Where did I state the only outcome is for yogiri to win? And you still can't prove how it is a stomp after I ask you to prove it you disregard the fact and complain some more. Please continue tho it makes me happy. I just love it when someone tries so hard only to ultimately show how truly desperate they are to not let their waifu lose a battle. Try to keep your bias outside the battle and all the complaining only tells me you are soft.

 

[Inori_Hatsune]

Ohh god, when this discussion end? I saw many people defending yogiri by saying that touma attack never hit him or IB cant negate ID. Remember, Touma had better cqc and he had no killing intent in character, this is not bloodlust battle. Also, IB is High 1C remember.

Also, I wonder did yogiri ever meet people that able negate or not die because his ability? Touma had experience against instant death attack & reality wrapping ability so he had more advantage here.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

This thread feels like it became dumb levels of long without any reason and I have no clue why.


Anyway, I doubt it matters but Touma FRAs above. Anything Yogiri can do he has dealt with already. And I find it incredibly asinine to say Yogiri exploits an opening on Touma being surprised when Touma has reacted stupidly fast to, and not been really sidetracked by magical and esper attacks of all kinds, all the while somehow implying Yogiri doesn't get surprised someone can survive his Instant Death when that has never happened in his entire series. What are these nonsensical double standards?

 

[SoulRebell]

They are 50 meters away and yogiri already accepts the fact that one day his instant death won't work. He isn't a sped he uses his instant death in different ways all the time lol and he is training with the sword.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Accepting it has nothing to do with not acting surprised. I can intellectually realize I will get robbed one day because where I live is shitty like that, but that doesn't mean I won't be rattled when it happens.

Not to mention I saw no "acceptance", just admitting it could very well not work someday.