The time has come: Yogiri vs Touma REDUX

[Malox1696]

touma is not someone to go all out to kill someone, and even then he would still not kill him, just knock him out

his feat for 9c are Can fight regular Skill-Out members, who are at Olympic athlete levels, his punches can lift people off the ground and throw them away, has knocked down multiple people with a lariat , nothing life threatning

he fought a lot of human lvl durability people they are all alive and well

 

[Accelerate420]

Yogiri's precog is not limited to killing intent only, its any hazard in general
He can also try to kill the enviroment to make a building fall into Touma or something

That could definitely work, and since Yogiri is protected by fate he wouldn't get injured.

>IB Severs his fate and makes him part of Touma's harem

 

[YungManzi]

I already know about the severs fate thing, I was talking about him being protected from a building falling on top of him.

 

[Maruishimaryishi]

Unlucky harem boi FRA

 

[Accelerate420]

I already know about the severs fate thing, I was talking about him being protected from a building falling on top of him.

Touma grabs onto him and they have a cute suicide pact together.

 

[PhantomØ4]

im not wrong random attacks with no killing intent did work to stop his precog partially
No, Lain B only managed to slip through precog due to sliping it through tthe Kurayami's hazard. The instance where Yogiri was trapped in ice he was not in any danger as to being harmed at all to begin with, sure he was gonna get trapped but no damage was gonna be dealt to him. You implying that having no killing intemt = Yogiri is basically ded implies that the robot back in Volume 1 killed him already as it shot a random bullet that simply bounced between mountains until it hit the train Yogiri and Tomochika were in. It was even made clear the attack had no killing intent when Yogiri justified why he had not killed the Robot, because it did not intend to attack them it was just a stray bullet.

In any case Yogiri got trapped under the building's collapse he could just kill the area (and ID would likley do that by itself) that was gonna fall on top of him and the same effect as with the ice would happen.

How would IB interact with an already collasping building? Would the building just put itslef back together? Is that like a thing where it negates damage cause by supernatural stuff? Like could he just touch a crater and it would magically fix itslef?

Is the fate severing thing an actual thing? Initial comment has me confused but if it is just a joke we we should not forget that Fate would be guiding this match to his favor so even non deadly things should get affected by Fate.

Sure, picking up something from the ground could help him but something random from the ground is not as effective as having an actual weapon.

Are we still under the impression that ID can only kill organs due to their independency? He clearly killed the lower part of the muggler's body, he just died from the shock/pain or whatever of losing his entrie lower half instantly. Yogiri comments on how losing half of your body instantly sure sounds deadly, and the guy even gets a chance to scream from pain, that death was clearly caused by natural causes after losing half of the functions of the body in an instant.

What is the thing with the kinetic vision sounds something speed related but I am oblivious to Touma for the most part. Yogiri can see qite ahead of time the hazards, they just become darker as the time for them to occur gets closer so it is likley that he would see all of his trajectories of the attacks regardless, it is not like Yogiri's precog is only on the moment before one attack or something (against the monkey thing he was moving away from the incoming attack and placing himself on the next death line to strike the monkey and so on so he does employ the strategy). Iirc he could even see the Kurayami's shadow of hazard in the city couple of hours before it actually got there but it was only in 30%.

It is not like something supernatural is coming out of Touma's hand either, Yogiri is just reading the hazard's of the world around him with a sort of % system when they get darker.

 

[Accelerate420]

The Fate severing thing is initially brought up as a joke but it's been implied several times to be real, and the reason why girls follow him after saving them.

Unless the magic is keeping it destroyed then it won't be fixed. If he kills the building and the affect of it is 'the building collapses' I assume that'll be cancelled out. But if the effect is 'i kill the building' then the affect has already happened.

Kinetic vision is how fast humans can perceive speeds basically so since he can't go faster than Touma can see the precog will work indefinitely. To begin with, is the setting a City anyways? Why would he immediately start off with kill the building?

 

[PhantomØ4]

That does not really seem that combat applicable tbh. Has he actually destroyed fate or whatever to change the outcome of an encounter?

Yeah then there should be no reason as to why Yogiri can't kill the building on him.

Doesn't speed equal negate that? How can touma see faster than Yogiri can percieve without speed boosts? Regardless I do not see how this severley hinders a precog that alerts Yogiri quite ahead of time, it is not like Touma's precog changes the course of events.

I dunno about the city thing, I am just adressing the arguments. If it doesn't take place in a city that would also lower the viable "random objects" Touma can use as weapons.

Yogiri couldstill drop some trees or light poles I suppose. or kill ground where Touma can fall.

 

[Accelerate420]

I never said he sees faster. I'm saying that because Yogiri can't move faster than he can see, Touma's precog immediately allows him to read every movement he makes.

Assuming he does this, why would he start it right off the bat?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I mean, if he sees that his ID cant work on Touma, he'll likely use on the enviroment...because its the only option excluding CQC

 

[PhantomØ4]

Not like Yogiri is not open to the idea that ID might one day fail (as he said when he killed Yuuki Tachibana) .

Yogiri's precog would have already alerted him of the next move Touma would make after he precoged Yogiri, Touma does not change eventd when he precogs and does a move.

 

[Malox1696]

Yes but it not his immediate response , touma might already be in range by the time he realize ID does not work


And again his precog would not work on IB or non life threatening attacks which is all attacks touma makes IC

 

[PhantomØ4]

How? 50 meters should be enough for Yogiri to realize that ID is not working on Touma but that he can still kill his general surroundings. He won't get caught off guard by the time Touma closes in.

 

[PhantomØ4]

The ice trapping would not even damage him, so that is not even that good of an example and again Yogiri can just read the hazards in % in the form of shades, it is not domething supernatural coming off Touma's arm.

 

[Accelerate420]

The ice trapping would not even damage him, so that is not even that good of an example and again Yogiri can just read the hazards in % in the form of shades, it is not domething supernatural coming off Touma's arm.

If he reads hazards in % then Touma will have 0% always since he won't attack with malicious intent nor the intent to kill. Just to suppress.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Hazards are not = to killing intent. refer to my comment above, he can see hazards without killing intent, if not the giant robot would have killed him with the stray bullet.

 

[Accelerate420]

>Would have killed him

And Touma isn't looking to kill him. Do you have anything that shows he defended himself against something where death wasn't an outcome?

 

[PhantomØ4]

Literally the monkey, he would have just taken damage.

 

[Accelerate420]

Where does it say he used that abiltiy on the monkey?

 

[PhantomØ4]

He used his precog to see where the monkey would strike, so he moved out of the way, and positioned his weapon where the monkey would strike afterwards so his sword hit with certainty.

 

[SoulRebell]

Based on this discussion yogiri should win.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

@Abyss @Yung

You guys are voting for Yog?

 

[PhantomØ4]

Yes, Yogiri should also be capable of kill Touma's lower half or eyes or ears or left side, ect... to create momentary openings on Touma's guard, ofc not right off the bat.

 

[YungManzi]

I'm leaning towards Yogiri, but neutral for now.

 

[Oma-Zi_o022]

IB make Yogiri can fight only in close combat but Touma have more experience and skill street fight Yogiri just have sword but not have technique.

Touma FRA

 

[Malox1696]

Yes, Yogiri should also be capable of kill Touma's lower half or eyes or ears or left side, ect... to create momentary openings on Touma's guard, ofc not right off the bat.

those are out as they lead to complete death as of current translation up to 4.8 he still can't target specific parts of the body without affecting it whole,for sense he can but it's unknown if it falls in the category where IB just negates them passively

 

[Malox1696]

He used his precog to see where the monkey would strike, so he moved out of the way, and positioned his weapon where the monkey would strike afterwards so his sword hit with certainty.

the monkey was monster he would have died, and even in his manga back story he does get hurt and thrown in the pond just fine

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

He wasnt hurt when thrown in the pound tho

 

[Malox1696]

u get my point, if it's not life threanting damage or killing hint it does not work well, and again IB and any object currently touching his right hand would be ex temped from that form of precog


people can bump in to him, people can garb him, etc , it's when it's done in a dangerous way or with the intention to kill that it works, to put it simply it reacts when his life is in danger

 

[Fcxfbx5]

Yogiri FRA

 

[Malox1696]

u forgot Scrlk666777 vote

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Added

 

[EdenSux]

Yes, Yogiri should also be capable of kill Touma's lower half or eyes or ears or left side, ect... to create momentary openings on Touma's guard, ofc not right off the bat.

those are out as they lead to complete death as of current translation up to 4.8 he still can't target specific parts of the body without affecting it whole,for sense he can but it's unknown if it falls in the category where IB just negates them passively

He should be able to when he can already kill a single petal of a rose without killing it whole it shows precision, but thats only what i think, he also doesnt need to he can kill touma eyes,ears and proceed to beat him up since he cant hear or see

 

[Accelerate420]

Yes, Yogiri should also be capable of kill Touma's lower half or eyes or ears or left side, ect... to create momentary openings on Touma's guard, ofc not right off the bat.

those are out as they lead to complete death as of current translation up to 4.8 he still can't target specific parts of the body without affecting it whole,for sense he can but it's unknown if it falls in the category where IB just negates them passively

He should be able to when he can already kill a single petal of a rose without killing it whole it shows precision, but thats only what i think, he also doesnt need to he can kill touma eyes,ears and proceed to beat him up since he cant hear or see

>Kill Touma's Eyes and ears

>He just places his hand on his head and fixes them

Nope.

 

[Malox1696]

Nope, he tried next chapter and still had to really on other to catch peoples, u are trying to use the same argument that were proven wrong in that thread, please stop


and touma just needs to keep his and on his head until he is in melee to counter the sense disable , and that's only IF IB passive negation on spell that target touma as a being doesn't work

 

[Accelerate420]

I really don't understand the point of this when it was settled last time. Is it because he has a sword now?

 

[Malox1696]

no it's cause people don't like the result , cause in the 3 chapter they translated nothing new was added to yogiri

in the first place vote there should be counted here

and im still surprised mods allow the sword to be counted as STANDARD equipment, as he brought with him 1 time and as decoy

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I really don't understand the point of this when it was settled last time. Is it because he has a sword now?

Long time ago, both were Low 2-C

Then Yogiri got bumped to 2-B, so the match was removed

Now that Touma is High 1-C, this is fair again

 

[Accelerate420]

...Okay. Well he's a spin for you:

Touma reads Yogiri killing a building through precog. He avoids the building from crushing him and goes around to beat his face in. Settled. His precog picks up on Magic as well, as he dodged a spear coming out from another dimension from behind by feeling 'tingles' on his skin. The same should apply to him killing the building and Touma will react accordingly. That's done. Any other environmental things, he'll react to since he's killing them with magic.

If nothing was added then I seriously don't see the point to this.

 

[Malox1696]

Long time ago, both were Low 2-C

Then Yogiri got bumped to 2-B, so it was removed

Now that Touma is High 1-C, this is fair again

that change nothing in the votes and arguments made there, both could have been 5A and it still would be the same