The Self-Reference Engine Introduction Thread (Actually a cosmology discussion)

[Timeless]

Can you message them? I quite busy right now. That would be appreciated very much!

 

[Antvasima]

Well, somebody needs to write a sufficiently thorough but rather easy to understand explanation for them to evaluate first.

 

[Cat275]

or have even more layers.

Nah transcending something like reinhardt wouldn't create a super reinhardt or anything like that, that's just not how most large cardinals work.

(An example of this is that transcending the cardinal 13 would make you a cardinal 13 unless proven your not.)

Also op don't call it 0-1 system otherwise your calling it something simillar to a weakly compact instead.

(Just call it the 0=1 cardinal or theorem)

 

[Timeless]

Nah transcending something like reinhardt wouldn't create a super reinhardt or anything like that, that's just not how most large cardinals work.

(An example of this is that transcending the cardinal 13 would make you a cardinal 13 unless proven your not.)

Also op don't call it 0-1 system otherwise your calling it something simillar to a weakly compact instead.

(Just call it the 0=1 cardinal or theorem)

its likely beyond all mathematical tiering at this point. so beyond mathiverse level??????????????

 

[Cat275]

its likely beyond all mathematical tiering at this point. so beyond mathiverse level??????????????

I mean 0=1 is still part of mathematics.
(It got expelled at ac though, because of kunen's inconsistency)

Though logically speaking aleph 2 to beyond are already beyond mathematics since their pretty much the meta math.

Also how strong is mathiverse?

 

[Timeless]

I mean 0=1 is still part of mathematics.
(It got expelled at ac though, because of kunen's inconsistency)

Though logically speaking aleph 2 to beyond are already beyond mathematics since their pretty much the meta math.

Also how strong is mathiverse?

The mathiverse comprises of everything that is mathematical, including 0=1. It should be noted that the mathiverse is a location and not an entity.

 

[Cat275]

The mathiverse comprises of everything that is mathematical, including 0=1. It should be noted that the mathiverse is a location and not an entity.

Can i get a scan. (?)

(I'll note to myself that it is berkeley level at best since it's impossible to determine the cardinals beyond berkeley because it is undefined right now.)

 

[Lewis]

beyond mathematical tier 1a → 0 because there is no theory proving that powet set {aleph0}= aleph1 is an axiom to prove without caring about the conflicts within the set .
Now, aleph-2 sized space would mathematically exceeds standard geometric space constructs, since multiplying the lines wouldn't ever reach the quantity of aleph-2; likewise, composing it together as mathematical model of space-time wouldn't make it nearly aleph-2 either. In short term, a line formed with uncountably infinite points (0-D).

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Can i get a scan. (?)

(I'll note to myself that it is berkeley level at best since it's impossible to determine the cardinals beyond berkeley because it is undefined right now.)

The Mathiverse

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Cat275]

The Mathiverse

vsbattles.fandom.com

Sorry i kinda didn't see a scan of the maths.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Sorry i kinda didn't see a scan of the maths.

A bit convoluted since I got from PDF, but here:

What is the Mathiverse? The Mathiverse transcends Time and Space... it transcends Intelligence and Extelligence... it transcends Thought; it transcends Transcendence itself. Within it - and 'within' is definitely the wrong word, for concepts such as 'inside' and 'outside' apply to individual Spaces, not to the unfathomable reaches of the mathiverse - are not just all Spaces and Times that have existed, or all Spaces and Times that will exist, or even all Spaces and Times that could exist. It also contains (wrong word, again) all Spaces and Times that could not exist, if only as a grim warning of the dangers of the nonexistent. The Mathiverse contains all numbers. The Mathiverse contains all shapes. The Mathiverse contains all geometries. The Mathiverse contains all vectors, matrices, permutations, combinations, integrations, separations, projections, injections, functions, functors, functionals, algebraic group schemes, supermanifolds, K-theories, M-theories, M-sets, power sets, subsets, supersets, and plain, ordinary, common-or-garden sets. The Mathiverse contains all data structures. The Mathiverse contains all processes. The Mathiverse contains all formal descriptions of logical structures. The Mathiverse contains all informal descriptions of illogical structures. If one day somebody managed to invent a new kind of thing, something that wasn't a Space or a Time but somehow belonged in the same category (Now that you mention it, the Mathiverse contains all categories)... Anyway, if someone managed to do what I've just said, then whatever they came up with would have been present in the Mathiverse all along (Except, as you've guessed, "would", "have", "been", "present", "all", "along" and "in" are the wrong words, we can probably accept "the" though)

 

[Cat275]

How does that prove it has 0=1 though?
(Assuming it also has the V universe it doesn't mean it is proven to be embedded on itself anyways i'll just stop derailing this thread.

Also kinda nlfish to me especially because all the large cardinal out there still don't exist and undefined etc but yeah i don't want to throw a tantrum here and write a whole script on why this is nlf [atleast on the surface] so yeah... i'll just stop for a bit.)

 

[Lewis]

I think mathiveres have release the laws of logic and made space boundless. Now we should focus on the Self-Reference Engine, not mathiveres because mathiveres is locations.

Laws of logic - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Cat275]

I think mathiveres have release the laws of logic and made space boundless.

Dunno how that's boundless but ok cool.

Now we should focus on the Self-Reference Engine, not mathiveres because mathiveres is locations.

Yeah let's stop derailing this.

 

[EndlessWords]

How does that prove it has 0=1 though?
(Assuming it also has the V universe it doesn't mean it is proven to be embedded on itself anyways i'll just stop derailing this thread.

Also kinda nlfish to me especially because all the large cardinal out there still don't exist and undefined etc but yeah i don't want to throw a tantrum here and write a whole script on why this is nlf [atleast on the surface] so yeah... i'll just stop for a bit.)

You are not the first person to say that the Mathiverse is a living NLF

Concerning the current topic, there is not much progress
Is there agreement on the different levels?

 

[MrOMG]

Then I will give a quote for the evolution of evolution itself, which will explain why the number of hierarchies equals the progression of cardinal numbers.

All things that have emerged in the natural world cluster, tumble forward, and evolve, mutually calculating the mutual, at times suffering avalanches and tumbling into the abyss, at times succeeding, spreading, branching, and continuing to diversify. The evolutionary landscape is the broadest possible view of that process, defining a species as the group of living things that has crossed a certain threshold in time to occupy a particular niche in the landscape. Extinction is the fate of a species occupying a shallow niche that is overcome by a larger species occupying a deeper niche. The niches themselves can evolve, branching or digging themselves deeper into the landscape.

The concept of natural evolution itself is outmoded, having been jettisoned in the design concept of the giant corpora of knowledge, which consider it to be a sluggish process they could do without. The giant corpora of knowledge are perfectly capable of managing their own design process. In their own eyes, they have already arrived at the optimum scale of knowledge. If that were in fact the case, though, why are they now having to rack their brains to engage in battle with an analogous structure? Even if the object itself is different, as long as its underlying structure is the same, shouldn't the remedy also be the same?


The giant corpora of knowledge are making calculations that allow humans to exist, encompassing even the course of evolution itself. No problem.


On the contrary, they see evolution as a simple process of progress along the axis of time. In that sense, there can be no direct comparison between evolution and the current landscape, where they are engaged in battle on a field that ignores the ideas of past and future. The evolution of humans, who are in a way acting inside the womb of the giant corpora of knowledge, is itself evolving in some sense, to the extent that it takes place in a space-time resembling the battle space.


Based on that assumption, it would also be possible to conclude that since they have not been able to conquer the battle space immediately, the giant corpora of knowledge do not yet have the process of human evolution fully under control.


In the normal sense of the term, humanity has fallen into a ravine in the evolutionary landscape, and the giant corpora of knowledge are treating humans as they would any species on its way to extinction. There is no particular uncertainty or anxiety about it. What humans experienced in the aftermath of the Event was beyond the linear temporal landscape of evolution: it was a transcendent landscape, and one that has molded this battlefield. This could be seen as the evolution of evolution itself.


As this annular structure continues to form, countless ravines being created, the giant corpora of knowledge are destroying it from the edges, the way water seeks the lowest place. However, as a phenomenon it has not yet evolved to the place it would have reached naturally. It was like an unbalanced chest of drawers—push in one drawer, another springs out. It is as if one were playing in a sandbox, unable to do as one wishes, because one suspects the sand itself is an organism. Children who arrive in answer to prayers crawl on top of that sand and evolve to alter the very landscape into which they themselves are falling. If the sandbox experience is getting weird, it's not at all strange that the ants building their nest there are also starting to behave strangely.

All the alien, transcendent and incomprehensible phenomena, the very fact of contact with which might seem to the Giant Knowledge Corps to be a new Event, were in fact only a continuation, a consequence of the same original Event. And the hierarchies that lead to other hierarchies are only a continuation of the Event, it happened due to the evolution of evolution itself. Whereas normal evolution, being a process within linear time, in this case there was a complicated phenomenon occurring where cause and effect was ignored. Structures infinitely expanded, branched out, diversified, and deepened. Due to this much more complex superdimensional structures appeared, and infinite hierarchies became only parts of steps in hierarchies of higher orders.

A proposal was floated to declare contact with the so-called star-man Alpha Centauri the Second Event, but this was not well received, and at some point that term was discarded. Say what you will about it, this too was nothing more than a straight-line extension of the Event itself.

 

[Cat275]

You are not the first person to say that the Mathiverse is a living NLF

Well i can certainly see that due to how nlfish it is on the surface.

man the scan i have right now is H1-A at best and that is only if we assume the K and M theories statement include measure and kappa set but since it's pretty ambiguous it's safe to assume it is lower than that, anyways i hope i can see a better scan in the near future.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, but I need confirmations from several staff members and experienced regular members who understand our tiering system very well.

Can you message them? I quite busy right now. That would be appreciated very much!

Well, somebody needs to write a sufficiently thorough but rather easy to understand explanation for them to evaluate first.

So about this...

 

[EndlessWords]

So about this...

To write a report we must first agree on the height of the cosmology
I will try to do this in a moment using the information given by MrOMG

 

[EndlessWords]

My understanding of cosmology is this:

- At the beginning there was a single 4D universe, the Event transformed this universe into an infinity of universes with infinite higher dimensions. To number the universes it is necessary to use a progression of large cardinal numbers but it is necessary to know that in the original version we learn that the sequence will reach "the extreme top of the large cardinal numbers" but this statement will not be used because of its imprecise nature, the multiverse is thus High 1-A

- We know that the Giant Corpora of Knowledge evolve on a structure called "hierarchy of intelligence" but according to my understanding it is part of the multiverse and does not extend above, so also High 1-A

- The multiverse and the hierarchy of intelligence are only a step in the infinite hierarchy of logic, each layer in the hierarchy of logic is only a dream in the layer above, so the hierarchy of logic would be High 1-A

- The hierarchy of logic and other hierarchies lead to higher hierarchies on higher and higher levels, similar to the number of universes the number of higher hierarchies should be transfinite, so the higher hierarchies would be 0

- Finally all this is only a story among an infinity of others contained in the Self-Reference ENGINE
Nemo Ex Machina is at the top of all the stories, so it would be 0

 

[Antvasima]

My understanding of cosmology is this:

- At the beginning there was a single 4D universe, the Event transformed this universe into an infinity of universes with infinite higher dimensions. To number the universes it is necessary to use a progression of large cardinal numbers but it is necessary to know that in the original version we learn that the sequence will reach "the extreme top of the large cardinal numbers" but this statement will not be used because of its imprecise nature, the multiverse is thus High 1-A

- We know that the Giant Corpora of Knowledge evolve on a structure called "hierarchy of intelligence" but according to my understanding it is part of the multiverse and does not extend above, so also High 1-A

- The multiverse and the hierarchy of intelligence are only a step in the infinite hierarchy of logic, each layer in the hierarchy of logic is only a dream in the layer above, so the hierarchy of logic would be High 1-A

- The hierarchy of logic and other hierarchies lead to higher hierarchies on higher and higher levels, similar to the number of universes the number of higher hierarchies should be transfinite, so the higher hierarchies would be 0

- Finally all this is only a story among an infinity of others contained in the Self-Reference ENGINE
Nemo Ex Machina is at the top of all the stories, so it would be 0

Okay. Thank you for helping out, but did anybody investigate the translations that I linked to earlier, and have they been taken into account above?

 

[EndlessWords]

Okay. Thank you for helping out, but did anybody investigate the translations that I linked to earlier, and have they been taken into account above?

We did, apparently in the original version the author mentions "the extreme top of the large cardinal numbers" but since the large cardinals are not directly mentioned then several members think that this is too imprecise a statement

However I think that the multiverse could get a better level in the tier high 1-A but for that we would need an exact translation of the part about transfinite theorems

 

[MrOMG]

My understanding of cosmology is this:

- At the beginning there was a single 4D universe, the Event transformed this universe into an infinity of universes with infinite higher dimensions. To number the universes it is necessary to use a progression of large cardinal numbers but it is necessary to know that in the original version we learn that the sequence will reach "the extreme top of the large cardinal numbers" but this statement will not be used because of its imprecise nature, the multiverse is thus High 1-A

- We know that the Giant Corpora of Knowledge evolve on a structure called "hierarchy of intelligence" but according to my understanding it is part of the multiverse and does not extend above, so also High 1-A

- The multiverse and the hierarchy of intelligence are only a step in the infinite hierarchy of logic, each layer in the hierarchy of logic is only a dream in the layer above, so the hierarchy of logic would be High 1-A

- The hierarchy of logic and other hierarchies lead to higher hierarchies on higher and higher levels, similar to the number of universes the number of higher hierarchies should be transfinite, so the higher hierarchies would be 0

- Finally all this is only a story among an infinity of others contained in the Self-Reference ENGINE
Nemo Ex Machina is at the top of all the stories, so it would be 0

I pretty much agree with everything, but there are a few BUTs.

The hierarchy of intelligence is not part of the multiverse, it is just the opposite, it is the multiverse part of the hierarchy of intelligence, most likely the multiverse we are discussing is no more than a rung in the hierarchy of knowledge. Recall that even ordinary people can create an infinite hierarchy of multiverse with dreams within dreams, and these internal multiverse are fully complete in terms of structural complexity. The story of the Giant Knowledge Corps is also nothing more than fiction, as they say on the outside it is nothing more than fiction, but on the inside it is reality.

And secondly, Nemo Ex Machina is not at the top of the story. It exists beyond all stories or anything like that. All those stories are what Nemo EX Machina created, he may be part of the story and present in them, but he is nothing more than part of the story, nothing more. You can consider that he uses avatars, in the last chapter he mentioned something like that, about taking a special form of existence so that the reader(?) can perceive him. As I said before, Nemo EX Machina transcends anything and everything.

 

[Antvasima]

My understanding of cosmology is this:

- At the beginning there was a single 4D universe, the Event transformed this universe into an infinity of universes with infinite higher dimensions. To number the universes it is necessary to use a progression of large cardinal numbers but it is necessary to know that in the original version we learn that the sequence will reach "the extreme top of the large cardinal numbers" but this statement will not be used because of its imprecise nature, the multiverse is thus High 1-A

- We know that the Giant Corpora of Knowledge evolve on a structure called "hierarchy of intelligence" but according to my understanding it is part of the multiverse and does not extend above, so also High 1-A

- The multiverse and the hierarchy of intelligence are only a step in the infinite hierarchy of logic, each layer in the hierarchy of logic is only a dream in the layer above, so the hierarchy of logic would be High 1-A

- The hierarchy of logic and other hierarchies lead to higher hierarchies on higher and higher levels, similar to the number of universes the number of higher hierarchies should be transfinite, so the higher hierarchies would be 0

- Finally all this is only a story among an infinity of others contained in the Self-Reference ENGINE
Nemo Ex Machina is at the top of all the stories, so it would be 0

I pretty much agree with everything, but there are a few BUTs.

The hierarchy of intelligence is not part of the multiverse, it is just the opposite, it is the multiverse part of the hierarchy of intelligence, most likely the multiverse we are discussing is no more than a rung in the hierarchy of knowledge. Recall that even ordinary people can create an infinite hierarchy of multiverse with dreams within dreams, and these internal multiverse are fully complete in terms of structural complexity. The story of the Giant Knowledge Corps is also nothing more than fiction, as they say on the outside it is nothing more than fiction, but on the inside it is reality.

And secondly, Nemo Ex Machina is not at the top of the story. It exists beyond all stories or anything like that. All those stories are what Nemo EX Machina created, he may be part of the story and present in them, but he is nothing more than part of the story, nothing more. You can consider that he uses avatars, in the last chapter he mentioned something like that, about taking a special form of existence so that the reader(?) can perceive him. As I said before, Nemo EX Machina transcends anything and everything.

@Ultima_Reality

What do you think about this, and do you have further, more specific, information to add?

 

[EndlessWords]

I pretty much agree with everything, but there are a few BUTs.

I knew you would have things to add, thanks for your additions and corrections

The hierarchy of intelligence is not part of the multiverse, it is just the opposite, it is the multiverse part of the hierarchy of intelligence, most likely the multiverse we are discussing is no more than a rung in the hierarchy of knowledge. Recall that even ordinary people can create an infinite hierarchy of multiverse with dreams within dreams, and these internal multiverse are fully complete in terms of structural complexity. The story of the Giant Knowledge Corps is also nothing more than fiction, as they say on the outside it is nothing more than fiction, but on the inside it is reality.

Very good, in fact I had a big doubt on this point but what you say here seems relevant, we'll need some quotes to explain it all
If the multiverse is at the basic tier high 1-A level you think that each layer of the intelligence hierarchy is a higher layer in tier high 1-A right?

And secondly, Nemo Ex Machina is not at the top of the story. It exists beyond all stories or anything like that. All those stories are what Nemo EX Machina created, he may be part of the story and present in them, but he is nothing more than part of the story, nothing more. You can consider that he uses avatars, in the last chapter he mentioned something like that, about taking a special form of existence so that the reader(?) can perceive him. As I said before, Nemo EX Machina transcends anything and everything.

Nemo Ex Machina tells us:

This will be the provisional endpoint of this story. Right now, I am thinking about becoming even less existent. Strictly speaking, I am already not here. The proof of the existence of the mechanical void has already been demonstrated. What is not here is the empty husk of my self. But if I should disappear even further, so that even this form no longer exists, then I will really not be here. I will not exist in any form

So it seems that he uses an avatar to talk to the reader, his avatar is a non-existent shell and his real form is even more non-existent

So his envelope is the Self-Reference ENGINE and his real form is Nemo Ex Machina ?

 

[MrOMG]

I knew you would have things to add, thanks for your additions and corrections



Very good, in fact I had a big doubt on this point but what you say here seems relevant, we'll need some quotes to explain it all
If the multiverse is at the basic tier high 1-A level you think that each layer of the intelligence hierarchy is a higher layer in tier high 1-A right?

I'm not too good at 1-A and such, so I'll just give the right quotes.

Techno-agnosticism-a quasi-religious doctrine created by the Giant Knowledge Corps of Hildegard, which found many followers who concentrated on finding a theory of the soul and exploring the inner multiverse, causing them to be semi-conscious most of the time. The central concept the believers attempted to achieve was the so-called "Nemo ex machina," a mechanical nothingness whose existence could not be proven

The Techno-Gnosis Group is said to be searching for a theory of the soul, seeking internal progress toward the next stage, but the results of this search are difficult for outsiders to detect. The central idea propounded by Hildegard and her cohort is the Nemo ex machina, a mechanized null. These giant corpora of knowledge are spending most of their passing instants in a semi-trance, exploring the multiverse within. For the most part, this renders them incapable of communication

The beings living in the inner multiverse are themselves capable of dreaming, thus forming a hierarchy of dream depths, the plunge into which can eventually lead to a Freudian nightmare, when it is not even clear who is in whose dream.

This idiotic picture was what it was. This was the nightmare from which no one could awake. It might have been that somewhere there was a way to awaken from this, but this was the kind of nightmare that even once escaped, its dreamer would remain unknown. To awaken from this kind of nightmare was a loss. The dream, as dreamed by who-knows-who, dispersed, but that did not mean we knew the identity of the culprit. To find him, I had the feeling it would make more sense to burst into a number of dreams and walk through them. It might be difficult to find them, but we would ultimately be able to get at the dreams-within-dreams. Unfortunately, the only ones sleeping here right now were all the Freuds.

Nah, the Self Reference Engine is the role or function of Nemo EX Machina, that is, as a storyteller of all possible stories, but of course he will soon refuse to tell them.

 

[EndlessWords]

I'm not too good at 1-A and such, so I'll just give the right quotes.

Techno-agnosticism-a quasi-religious doctrine created by the Giant Knowledge Corps of Hildegard, which found many followers who concentrated on finding a theory of the soul and exploring the inner multiverse, causing them to be semi-conscious most of the time. The central concept the believers attempted to achieve was the so-called "Nemo ex machina," a mechanical nothingness whose existence could not be proven

The beings living in the inner multiverse are themselves capable of dreaming, thus forming a hierarchy of dream depths, the plunge into which can eventually lead to a Freudian nightmare, when it is not even clear who is in whose dream.

Nah, the Self Reference Engine is the role or function of Nemo EX Machina, that is, as a storyteller of all possible stories, but of course he will soon refuse to tell them.

It's perfect! This information is very important for the scaling of cosmology
You were right about the hierarchy of intelligence, now we just have to wait for an evaluation from a staff member

 

[Antvasima]

Hello.

Just a note that several of you have received further responses here:

Antvasima

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[EndlessWords]

Actully,I dont quite understand what you said

you said：

the large cardinals are not directly mentioned

I just want to say,this is wrong

beacuse it have been directly mentioned

in Japanese， 巨大基数= large cardinals

In fact, I did not explain myself well
Of course the term "large cardinals" appears in the text but I meant that on this wiki if the names of the cardinals are not explicitly mentioned then it is considered an NLF
Personally I agree that the progression reaches the extreme top of the large cardinal numbers but this statement seems to be rejected by the other members
I hope you know what I mean

EndlessWords

another thing，

you said

hierarchy of intelligence are only a step in the infinite hierarchy of logic

this part is wrong

hierarchy of logic and hierarchy of intelligence are just same thing

Very good! Thank you for your translation
I will make a new description of cosmology with this information

 

[EndlessWords]

Very good
For Doctor 129 the mention of the extreme top of the large cardinal numbers is not what one would call an NLF and is not a vague statement, I personally agree with that

Here is his point:

can you give me the definition of explicitly mentioned

just use a example in this thread

the mathiverse，widely be considered as most powerful verse here and can include all large cardinals

but this verse havent say anything directly ， explicitly about large cardinals

so ，obviously，not explicitly mentioned is considered an NLF is not right for most people and not right for staff who understand the standard of this site more than any members

and

mathematician do think it is explicitly mentioned ，they even used it directly in paper where most accurate word using is needed

if a mathematician use the right mathematical word properly is nlf，then you can say anything in novel and paper is nlf

but i want to say this standard of explicitly mentioned you are saying maybe dont exit

and you should have confidence that the word using in this book is clearly， explicitly enough ，even from the perspective of mathematician

 

[Cat275]

I found this and just wanted to correct this part:

"For example, in order for Woodin Cardinal to exist in a work, the term "Woodin Cardinal" must absolutely be written"

The concept of the woodin cardinal does not need to be written you could just use the axiom it uses and the theorems that prove it's existence.

(You could even use similar definable cardinals like the compact ones since this sometimes have woodin in it or something like the conjecture lines such as omega conjecture.)

 

[Cat275]

Btw some of the reasons why I find the extreme top of large cardinals to be nlf or contradictory is because the large cardinal hierarchy states that there is no extreme top in the cardinal hierarchy and that there is always a bigger and stronger large cardinal, another is because the burali paradox also states that there can be no ordinal that can encompass all ordinals.

(So this bassically removes the idea of something being the top of the top, since if you hypothetically become the top with the statement of the large cardinal hierarchy having a large cardinal always bigger than another, you are more likely to have all cardinals or ordinals in you so let's say we hypothetically have and made a new model called $ and this is stated to have lambda and every ordinal there is, the burali-forti paradox will reject the idea and create inconsistencies making this newly created model drop so low in the large cardinal hierarchy.

Currently the best bet we have right now is the ultimate L which is still currently working in progress at the moment and that itself is not a cardinal but a axiom.)

Though at the moment I feel neutral at self reference engine 0=1 schematics and such.

 

[Lewis]

Did we forget about The uses of classes? (von Neumann–Bernays–Gödel. NBG )

 

[Cat275]

That thing isn't mentioned in sre though.

 

[Lewis]

Want me to bump or no?

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody write a single post with easy to understand explanations regarding what needs to be evaluated here please, including all of the reasons for all the suggested tiers? I can ask for further input from knowledgeable members afterwards.

 

[EndlessWords]

Can somebody write a single post with easy to understand explanations regarding what needs to be evaluated here please, including all of the reasons for all the suggested tiers? I can ask for further input from knowledgeable members afterwards.

The biggest question is about the level of the multiverse
Ultima said that the multiverse is high 1-A because in the English version we learn that it is necessary to use a progression of large cardinal numbers to number all the universes but in the Japanese version there is a statement that says that this progression will wait for "the extreme top of the large cardinal numbers" but we are not sure what level would give this statement, according to Doctor 129 the statement is precise but previously Cat said that mathematically it is not coherent

So we just need to know what the level of the multiverse is using the statement about the extreme top of the large cardinal numbers, the higher levels will be easy to evaluate then

About the characters that could have their own pages:

• The Giant Corpora will adapt to the level of the multiverse
• The alien from Alpha Centauri and the Laplace's Demon would adapt to certain upper layers of the knowledge hierarchy
• No known character adapts to other higher hierarchies
• SRE will fit at the extreme top of the whole cosmology

 

[EndlessWords]

Doctor 129 added an interesting post today, I recommend reading it (about the statement on the extreme top of large cardinal numbers)

Also I think that talking about a top of large cardinal numbers is not so inconsistent with the way we evaluate infinite hierarchies, even if infinite hierarchies have an endpoint (a last layer for example) they are still high 1-B so a hypothetical last layer to the hierarchy of large cardinal numbers should work the same way logically

 

[Cat275]

Doctor 129 added an interesting post today, I recommend reading it (about the statement on the extreme top of large cardinal numbers)

Looks like the author now has trivialism, dialethism or something. ;-;

Also I think that talking about a top of large cardinal numbers is not so inconsistent with the way we evaluate infinite hierarchies, even if infinite hierarchies have an endpoint (a last layer for example) they are still high 1-B so a hypothetical last layer to the hierarchy of large cardinal numbers should work the same way logically

This is quite different than a infinite large cardinal hierarchy simply because some large cardinals surpass a infinite hierarchy and even have something either as big or bigger than it.
(Like axiom 13 which states there is always a bigger 13, or the hyper-hyper-mahlo to even bigger hyper-mahlo's or something like Reinhardt which is equivalent to 0=1 or V→V which puts the set theoretic universe into itself or maybe just V or L as itself (or combined, V=L), but the case here is that even 1 cardinal can have something more than a infinite hierarchy or even limit a entire infinite hierarchy to more of a single large cardinal, this is clearly not simillar, as many large cardinals have different nature's and function to other large cardinals.)

 

[Antvasima]

The biggest question is about the level of the multiverse
Ultima said that the multiverse is high 1-A because in the English version we learn that it is necessary to use a progression of large cardinal numbers to number all the universes but in the Japanese version there is a statement that says that this progression will wait for "the extreme top of the large cardinal numbers" but we are not sure what level would give this statement, according to Doctor 129 the statement is precise but previously Cat said that mathematically it is not coherent

So we just need to know what the level of the multiverse is using the statement about the extreme top of the large cardinal numbers, the higher levels will be easy to evaluate then

About the characters that could have their own pages:

• The Giant Corpora will adapt to the level of the multiverse
• The alien from Alpha Centauri and the Laplace's Demon would adapt to certain upper layers of the knowledge hierarchy
• No known character adapts to other higher hierarchies
• SRE will fit at the extreme top of the whole cosmology

@Ultima_Reality @DontTalkDT @First_Witch @Elizhaa @KingPin0422 @Qawsedf234 @Pain_to12 @Agnaa

Your help would be appreciated here. (Also, my apologies if any of you have stated your disinterest in this topic earlier.)