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The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

The entire history of the X-Men summed up in two panels
image.png
 
Ultima_Reality said:
The "planes of reality" in question are referring to the different Earths of the multiverse, in the context of the Phoenix scan, so the feat is indeed Low 1-A.
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@Ultima_Reality

Well, the problem is that when Necron and Rachel Summers later fought each other within that same storyline, while using the Phoenix Force, they explicitly didn't even reach tier 4-B in the scale of their fight, so as the writer apparently didn't perceive either of them as particularly powerful, the multiple Earths overlapping seems to have been some kind of chain reaction feat, rather than raw power.

Feel free to read that Excalibur story if you wish btw. It is quite good.
 
Could I get some opinions on Thor spinning the World Engine? This is the only one of Thor's Yggdrasil feats not used as justification for his life-essence right now; Eficiente tried to argue against using it on a previous CRT he eventually abandoned, but Ultima later removed it anyway while doing the Heralds' preliminary tiers. This is what Eficiente said about it:
  • He spinned a wheel that was connected to the tree's "natural clock" (time in its worlds), the machine could manipulate the time on the tree's worlds by spinning and Thor spinned it backwards. He did an action that automatically causes hax through the machine's own manipulation of the tree, which is unquantifiable, not on the same level as the manipulated target. Ex. If someone punctures machines on you with a wheel that make you raise an arm when spinned, what tier is it to spin it in reverse and make you lower your arm? The answer is whatever. Replace the target of the machine with any character and the forced action with anything they can do and the answer is still whatever, anything. I cannot say it more clear than that. It's great that it took Thor an insane effert to do this and that he went up against "the combined intent of both tree and engine".
    • We say that Thor "significantly affected their timelines", which is that thing the Tiering System says, but the scans only show that he affected the natural time in them to turn back time. This is "even less 2-C" as the space between universes isn't being affected by his action, his action affects the time on those universes.
  • It was brought up how Those who Sit in the Shadows cause Ragnarok as a reason as to why it couldn't just be easily stopped, which is quite the excuse. They weren't established until way later. Even then, there is no reason as to why they would try to avoid Thor spinning the wheel backwards just like they did nothing when the wheel spinned like normal and "caused" Ragnarok, regardless of them being the ones who cause it.
  • Also, while the crazy oldman is a genius in genetics that manipulated funtions of the tree, considering how his base was an underground internment for superhumans in 1940 during WWII, I would think his machines holding and puncturing the Yggdrasil is due to the tree being not portrayed as having 2-C durability rather than the machines being that strong.
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Though I used to find this convincing, I don't agree with it anymore. Firstly, Yggdrasil is being treated as High 1-A now, not 2-C, so the first sub-bullet and third bullet are irrelevant now. Second, I don't know what THSAIS have to do with this, and the argument doesn't need them to be involved anyway, so that's also irrelevant.

As for the main argument:
  1. This issue opens with Thor tracing Thurisaz, the rune representing his name, on his gauntlets while musing over releasing the past, reclaiming power, and declaring his identity, pointing to him using "the power of Thor" here.
  2. The comic explicitly states that Thor "would be fighting against the combined intent of both tree and engine", which is an odd description to make if you want to suppose that turning this wheel only indirectly causes hax, as Thor explicitly has to directly contend with Yggdrasil's might to turn it.
  3. To push the wheel, Thor exerts himself so much that his palms burn with pain and he nearly dies from the strain before managing to finish pushing, which, again, makes far more sense if we assume he's pushing himself to his limits than if we assume he's just pushing a lever to cause some random hax.
I know Eficiente says "It's great that it took Thor an insane effert to do this and that he went up against 'the combined intent of both tree and engine'", but that just comes off as mockingly dismissing the feat when the evidence in favor of it is unambiguous. The analogy doesn't work explicitly because the feat is described as Thor fighting "the combined intent of both tree and engine", so I'm making these points regardless.
Also, it's funny how Thor predicted "White Bird: A Wonder Story" in December 1995.
 
Last edited:
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
Could I get some opinions on Thor spinning the World Engine? This is the only one of Thor's Yggdrasil feats not used as justification for his life-essence right now; Eficiente tried to argue against using it on a previous CRT he eventually abandoned, but Ultima later removed it anyway while doing the Heralds' preliminary tiers. This is what Eficiente said about it:

Though I used to find this convincing, I don't agree with it anymore. Firstly, Yggdrasil is being treated as High 1-A now, not 2-C, so the first sub-bullet and third bullet are irrelevant now. Second, I don't know what THSAIS have to do with this, and the argument doesn't need them to be involved anyway, so that's also irrelevant.

As for the main argument:
  1. This issue opens with Thor tracing Thurisaz, the rune representing his name, on his gauntlets while musing over releasing the past, reclaiming power, and declaring his identity, pointing to him using "the power of Thor" here.
  2. The comic explicitly states that Thor "would be fighting against the combined intent of both tree and engine", which is an odd description to make if you want to suppose that turning this wheel only indirectly causes hax, as Thor explicitly has to directly contend with Yggdrasil's might to turn it.
  3. To push the wheel, Thor exerts himself so much that his palms burn with pain and he nearly dies from the strain before managing to finish pushing, which, again, makes far more sense if we assume he's pushing himself to his limits than if we assume he's just pushing a lever to cause some random hax.
Also, it's funny how Thor predicted "White Bird: A Wonder Story" in December 1995.
Click to expand...
I think the feat should be fine to use for his life-essence
 
Ultima_Reality said:
Cosmology page is mostly done.

Progess on the third part of the revisions picks up steam now, I suppose. Figured waiting for Immortal Thor #2 to release would be good before carrying on.
Click to expand...
Excellent work. Feel free to post it as a regular wiki page as far as I am concerned.

Perhaps you should contact Al Ewing, J.M. DeMatteis and Mark Waid via Twitter to inform them about this page, and see what they think?
 
Or maybe not Mark Waid. He appears to have a hidden self-denied darkness in him that he does not seem to properly deal with, and might cause problems due to the many comic book scans in the page.
 
I have seen or heard claims of that he has a terrible temper and bullied Antarctic Press staff members via vague threats, and he has also produced some quite disturbing and unforgiving stories, but he still said with a straight face that he is the most non-evil person almost anybody has ever met, so he likely need to do some self-introspection in order to evolve further.
 
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