The Return of The Fire Force Revision Threads!!!

[azontr]

Plot Manipulation shouldn't even be an ability [troll]

 

[Maitreya12]

Probably won't be able to reply after this message. :v


Uhh, seems pretty vague to me….

I exactly not sure how this will be some kind of metafictional evidence for the verse, I would say that this is just a side character or what I usually called is “NPC” in general manga, realizing that they are just a mere exhibition, which is sometimes just jokes or expression in the sense of 4th wall break to the readers. What's more, the people there or “character background” (which is what the author describes), will fall into flames/“despair” and vanish because Adolla, which is what happened to the mom when she openly rejects “s*x appeal”, that becomes some kind of “hope” for the them to survive from the great cataclysm. And thus, probably explaining why Tatsuto mom suddenly vanished at that panel, nothing there referring to erase via plot or it’s provided metafictional to be the plot manipulation.

Ok there’s a lot here. First and foremost though, there is no “probably what happened” to Tatsuo’s mom. It’s literally explained what happened to her. There was no “falling into flames” or whatever in regards to her. They plainly say out loud why she suddenly vanished and that was because her “role as a background character” was completed.

The reason this directly proves metafictional evidence is because is proves that the plot of the story is impacting some fundamental aspect of reality, as laid out in the plot manipulation page. Literally making characters disappear from reality as soon as their “roles” in the “story” they’re in is finished.

This isn’t just a “joke” or “expression” because of the fact that it’s literally fundamentally impacting reality as characters don’t even have names given to them if they’re not even enough of an “important character” to be deemed to be enough to be given an actual name.

So I don’t know how this wouldn’t classify as metafictional evidence in the slightest.

Your argument is based on only 1 statement directly about him being able to change the narrative. Again, which is very vague. He imagines that he wants to be the knight king after he simply finished the game that he played, which to boost his delusional to defeat the dragon. And by boosting I mean his ability to imagine. However, nothing here explicitly stated that his imagination can change the narrative.

Uh no. Not at all. Arthur’s changing the narrative statement is simply further support to my argument, not solely based off of it. I already presented other such evidences and statements citing how the structure they’re in is a “story” in of itself, which is a metafictional evidence in nature, and I further cement that notion of the characters referring to themselves as either “explicit or background characters.

And being able to imagine being a main character, without any concrete proof and further explanation, doesn't necessarily give you plot hax.

Right…and I’ve given you concrete proof as well as further explanation citing how Arthur’s imagination is a direct result of his ability to change the narrative. The “narrative” here being the metafictional structure of the “story” he’s apart of. I don’t know how anything mentioned disputed the notion of metafictional evidence being presented with the usage of these

The thing is, Plot Manipulation is much more specific than causality manipulation, having unique mechanic with specific application and common enough that should be its own page, you don't give to a character who has causality manipulation or reality warping in profile straight up to plot manipulation just because these three abilities have similarities, right?

Ok but this doesn’t address what I said at all. You’re claiming that Arthur’s abilities are more like subjective reality warping, but this doesn’t dispute the notion that his powers are being derived off of plot manipulation. The plot manipulation page even cited how the result of this ability manifests itself just as reality warping does. That still doesn’t mean it’s not plot manipulation though.

I would love to address that the fact that Arthur been said to be able to “change the structure of the story and the narrative to that of a video game”, which become some sort of evidence for your arguments.

My dude…we can literally see how Arthur’s own abilities manifested directly match that of the video game he was playing earlier. He again further does this when straight up…reality itself decides to manifest itself as if Arthur just equipped something in a video game. This is showcasing metafictional evidence because

The changing the narrative portion comes from the direct statement of such and the video game portion of it comes from his direct showings of it.

The fact that “featured” that Vulcan talking about actually is the new Excalibur that that he made for Arthur. Arthur simply adding the featured that Vulcan never put in the Excalibur by imagines it . Nothing there referring to change the story of the game.

What? That was just of the many examples of Arthur demonstrating his abilities. Again the direct citation of Arthur changing the narrative comes from this statement, the likening to a video game is from his direct showings doing just that.

What Arthur did there was liken Excalibur akin to something like a “compass” you could find in a game just like he “equipped the star ring” just like an “item” in a video game, which even reality itself announced just as a video game would. Matching game pixels and all. Hell even previously just him playing that game passively altered the course of events of the world around him, something even listed on his very own profile already. He literally altered the “story” of the world around him just by passively playing a game

Heck, even they didn't finish their game in the first place, before Arthur showed his abilities.

Yes! Exactly. Want to know why? Because Arthur finished the game himself. He did the final battle and fought with Dragon, hence why he labels himself as the main character of that video game. That’s the point. The point was that, the reason Arthur left the game was so that he was gonna complete it by fighting the “Dragon” himself.

I don't think I need to response to this, because all the scans you've shown are still the same, just with different explanations.

Then you’re just not addressing the arguments presented. The continual usage of the terms “story” being used to describe the structure they’re apart of, the direct citation of the “narrative” being changed in relation to one’s power, and the statements of characters labeling themselves as either “background/explicit characters” with them straight up vanishing from reality as soon as their “roles” in that story have been completed all demonstrate a multitude of evidence clearly indicating the usage of metafictional structures and terms in relation to them in regards to plot manipulation.

 

[narutosage15]

@Maitreya is this the right time to pass on my faerie page for acceptance along with this thread

 

[Arkenis]

@Maitreya is this the right time to pass on my faerie page for acceptance along with this thread

Link?

 

[narutosage15]

Link?

Narutosage15/sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Excellence616]

Narutosage15/sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

His lifting strength should be at least Class Z for pulling the moon

 

[narutosage15]

His lifting strength should be at least Class Z for pulling the moon

I see, thanks would make the changes later is there any other thing that needs changes/addition?

 

[Excellence616]

I see, thanks would make the changes later is there any other thing that needs changes/addition?

None so far

 

[Dalesean027]

Shinra launcher a car sky high

vsbattles.fandom.com

Im for one still confused on why this was never put in the profiles on the CRTs I linked it in, damn near everyone should be Class 100 at the very least

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Bump

 

[Arkenis]

How many people disagree with Plot Manip so far?

 

[Arkenis]

Narutosage15/sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

Should clean up the formatting more.

 

[Maitreya12]

How many people disagree with Plot Manip so far?

So far I believe just Pain and Nexpo but Pain is abstaining from this thread for right now until they absolutely ruin me with their next plot manipulation thread that is. The other people who have commented in regards to the ability have thus far agreed unless I’m mistaken and so far no staff have given their input on the matter.

@Deceived3596 I’m still waiting on your input of the arguments and all the new evidence presented bb

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Should clean up the formatting more.

Would his time stop not be space-time manipulation since he's warping spacetime with gravity to do it

 

[Arkenis]

Would his time stop not be space-time manipulation since he's warping spacetime with gravity to do it

Yeah? I always took it as heat manip but if there's other stuff stating that then yeah it would be spacetime time stop maniping.

 

[Arkenis]

Or it's time manip and gravity manip technically cuz he isn't stopping time in itself but rather using gravity to slow down the area around him to the point time stops

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Yeah? I always took it as heat manip but if there's other stuff stating that then yeah it would be spacetime time stop maniping.

Tbh based on the description faerie gave his ability should be something like this:

Physics Manipulation, Heat Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, Density Manipulation & Gravity Manipulation (Through the Adolla Burst Faerie can tamper with the law of universal gravitation allowing him to change the mass of matter by adding heat to atoms thus manipulating gravity), Space-Time Manipulation (Through altering mass Faerie can distort both space and time allowing him stop time).

 

[Arkenis]

Tbh based on the description faerie gave his ability should be something like this:

Matter isn't needed as Physics manip already covers that and I dont think Density is needed either since Physics covers that.

 

[Arkenis]

Also brings me to another thing, why was Shinra never given Possibly Black Hole Creation?

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Matter isn't needed as Physics manip already covers that and I dont think Density is needed either since Physics covers that.

Matter is there cause he's altering them at an atomic level and Density is there cause he's changing their mass. In order the reasons for each are:

• Physics Manipulation: He's tampering with the law of universal gravitation to make everything he does possible in the first place
• Heat Manipulation: He's manipulating heat to add it to things
• Matter Manipulation: He's altering atoms by adding heat to them
• Density Manipulation: He's increasing the mass of said atoms
• Gravity Manipulation: He's using all the above to alter gravity

 

[Arkenis]

Matter is there cause he's altering them at an atomic level and Density is there cause he's changing their mass. In order the reasons for each are:

I know what he's doing, Physics Manip already covers matter as an ability on its page one can do so there's no real need to put matter as well. You can simply format it as

Physics Manipulation/Heat Manipulation & Space-Time Manipulation (Gravity - Atomic - Through the Adolla Burst Faerie can tamper with the law of universal gravitation allowing him to change the mass of matter by adding heat to atoms thus manipulating gravity. Through altering mass Faerie can distort both space and time allowing him stop time)

Since the gravity effect is merely a byproduct of the physics and heat hax it shouldn't be mentioned as its own manipulation yk.

 

[Deceived3596]

@Deceived3596 I’m still waiting on your input of the arguments and all the new evidence presented bb

You see......

I'll address it in due time, most likely later today or tomorrow.

 

[Maitreya12]

Take your time bro no rush. I just wanna hear more input on the matter.

 

[narutosage15]

Should clean up the formatting more.

I see

 

[Arkenis]

I see

I could help if u like. have nt else to do

 

[narutosage15]

I could help if u like. have nt else to do

Please do, that would be nice

 

[narutosage15]

Wait shouldn’t there be Law manipulation for Haumea/evangelist iirc something about changing the laws of the world

 

[Nierre]

@Maitreya
The fire force blogs in question:

 

[Arkenis]

Please do, that would be nice

i updated it now. tell me if there's something else u have for it

 

[Maitreya12]

@Maitreya
The fire force blogs in question:

Me personally…I don’t stand by this level of disrespect

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Physics Manipulation/Heat Manipulation & Space-Time Manipulation (Gravity - Atomic - Through the Adolla Burst Faerie can tamper with the law of universal gravitation allowing him to change the mass of matter by adding heat to atoms thus manipulating gravity. Through altering mass Faerie can distort both space and time allowing him stop time)

Yeah this seems reasonable enough. It's clear and concise

Now all that's left is 4D potency Timestop for sho

 

[Deceived3596]

After reading through everything i'm fine with Plot Manipulation for Adolla and Arthur, the evidence provided (in specific, the "changing the narrative" statement, Licht's story statement and the background characters vs established characters statement) seems enough for Plot Manipulation imo, but ultimately i would want someone whose an expert on Plot Manipulation to comment on this thread before i give my full agreement towards it, so if someone could contact @Theglassman12 or any other expert, that would be great.

 

[Maitreya12]

After reading through everything i'm fine with Plot Manipulation for Adolla and Arthur, the evidence provided (in specific, the "changing the narrative" statement, Licht's story statement and the background characters vs established characters statement) seems enough for Plot Manipulation imo, but ultimately i would want someone whose an expert on Plot Manipulation to comment on this thread before i give my full agreement towards it, so if someone could contact @Theglassman12 or any other expert, that would be great.

Don’t worry, Glassman said he’s gonna comment on this thread soon. He’s just busy at the moment so we just need to give him some time.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Shmooply]

Arthur Boyle Plot Manipulation:​

This is probably the most clear cut example of Plot Manipulation I've seen yet, so I agree with this.

As for the other additions, I'll re-read the OP and the rest of the thread then share my opinion, since they hurt my ape brain a bit.

 

[Shmooply]

bump

 

[Theglassman12]

Alright, exams are done for the time being so I can comment on the plot hax stuff.

So far regarding the scans for plot hax the closest thing I can see in regards to plot manipulation is the whole "change the narrative" statement from the author in this scan and this line here. Though scans like this with him not being aware of him being in outer space and thus not being affected by the lack of air sounds more like Subjective reality as his inner thoughts came out into reality, especially if it's going off the fact the dragon character just thinks he's a force of nature and therefore he is. To qualify for plot manipulation meta-narrative statements would need to be used a lot for this, such as the plot of the story, the setting being altered abruptly, the character's roles changing, etc. etc. I'm not fully convinced this would be solid plot manipulation as it somewhat implies subjective reality given the outer space scene with him suffocating.

I can see a possibly Plot Manipulation with those two scans, but the rest doesn't exactly expand on it being actual metanarrative stuff, with the video game text I'm not really sure what to label that other than subjective reality as he sees himself in a game more than the real world.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

To qualify for plot manipulation meta-narrative statements would need to be used a lot for this, such as the plot of the story, the setting being altered abruptly, the character's roles changing, etc.

Do you think this interaction would qualify for showing a "characters role changing"?

 

[Theglassman12]

That can work for plot hax since it's talking about meta-narrative stuff like character roles.

 

[Maitreya12]

Alright, exams are done for the time being so I can comment on the plot hax stuff.

So far regarding the scans for plot hax the closest thing I can see in regards to plot manipulation is the whole "change the narrative" statement from the author in this scan and this line here. Though scans like this with him not being aware of him being in outer space and thus not being affected by the lack of air sounds more like Subjective reality as his inner thoughts came out into reality, especially if it's going off the fact the dragon character just thinks he's a force of nature and therefore he is. To qualify for plot manipulation meta-narrative statements would need to be used a lot for this, such as the plot of the story, the setting being altered abruptly, the character's roles changing, etc. etc. I'm not fully convinced this would be solid plot manipulation as it somewhat implies subjective reality given the outer space scene with him suffocating.

I can see a possibly Plot Manipulation with those two scans, but the rest doesn't exactly expand on it being actual metanarrative stuff, with the video game text I'm not really sure what to label that other than subjective reality as he sees himself in a game more than the real world.

Thanks very much for commenting on the matter.

So far from what I understand of your position (unless I’m mistaken), the inclination is that Adolla has some form of plot hax (for being the higher dimensional being altering the story around them and having characters disappear from reality once their “role as a character” has been completed). However less so in Arthur’s case.

My question is that on the plot manipulation page, doesn’t it say the effects of plot manipulation result in something very akin to reality warping? So wouldn’t it almost be expected that Arthur’s abilities falling in line with subjective reality warping?

There are also other showings of Arthur that I’m curious about your opinion on. Like for example how Arthur passively changes the course of events in the real world by simply playing a video game at home. (This isn’t me proposing an ability for Arthur, this showing is already listed on his profile, I’m just trying to provide an explanation for that ability in regards to Arthur’s ‘changing the narrative’ statement being the source of his powers).

Either way, thanks for commenting on the thread and giving your input. Much appreciated.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Maitreya pretty much, Adolla makes it very explicit on how the characters are treated where they’re actual background characters in a story and they have specific roles to play in the narrative, with the author statement kind of verifying it being the case. The fact the meta narrative context is what’s describing the ability makes this plot manipulation as opposed to it being just reality warping.

it’s a very specific type of reality warping. In the same way on how Immortality Negation or Regeneration negation are very specific types of power Nullification that require additional context for you to gain said abilities.

The video game scan in of itself doesn’t exactly tell me much given he mentions about a character being an enemy and we cut to some random fight with no additional context on the meta statements. The biggest support for Arthur getting plot hax is the “change the narrative” line but that would need more elaboration via meta-narrative context if you want this to be solid plot hax. At the very best it would be possible Plot hax.