The ratings of Disney characters in Kingdom Hearts?

[Antvasima]

I am very uncertain if we should really place all of them at 5-A based on that they fought with Sora?

I was under the impression that Sora's powers were automatically adjusted to the same scale as the characters of the worlds he was visiting, such as being transformed into an ordinary lion cub in the pridelands, or being similarly adjusted when visiting the "Nightmare Before Christmas" world. Not that all of the characters in this series remotely had planetary level power.

It is some of the Disney characters that are bound to one single world that I am mainly concerned about. Mickey is a keyblade master, and as such should be okay to power-scale. But the hunter Clayto from Tarzan was strictly shown as a regular human for example, and as I mentioned earlier, my personal impression is that the scale of Sora's powers were constantly modified to be on a level with the worlds that he visited. As othervise virtually every single Disney character, no matter how ordinary, would be able to destroy planets, which does not make any sense.

Perhaps it would be better to delete the pages with uncertain ratings, or to place them all at "Unknown" statistics?

 

[Numbersguy]

Not really, the creators just wanted to put "a little twist" in certain worlds, Sora's power remains unchanged.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, given that the characters in those worlds, such as Pirates of the Caribbean, Tarzan, Lion King, and Nightmare Before Christmas, did not display any more power than their original counterparts, which was close to street level, my impression remains that Sora's power was scaled down to fit into each setting, and not that everybody in those worlds could destroy entire planets with ease because they could give Sora a challenge.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I am half and half on this.

While I agree that Sora's power is depicted as clearly being scaled down from world to world, we also see the same Heartless and Nobodies appearing in the same worlds, and in plenty of worlds we see the Disney Villains being possesed by Heartless before we fight them, implying that they get a power boost. Likewise we see that some Disney Worlds have the presence of Organization XIII members or other original characters as bosses.

... But yeah, I do agree that 5-A Pete and the like seems heavily forced.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, my impression is that it worked both ways. Other characters that are moved to other worlds, such as a summoned Simba that fights with Sora, are also scaled up to the story setting/"world" that they are placed within.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah, I agree that 5-A Jack Sparrow, or Simba / Scar, seems very ridiculous (Even though there are clear superhuman feats in both worlds).

Overall, it's hard to say...

 

[Antvasima]

Unknown ratings or deleting the profiles seems like our best option.

Possibly with a footnote explaining that the characters in Kingdom Hearts have their power levels adjusted to their settings.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I'd like to see The Everlasting's, or that of any KH Suporter, opinion in this before any great change.

 

[The_Everlasting]

See, here's the thing.

It's never remotely implied that Sora's power was modified when he visits worlds, his appearance is just changed so he appears less conspicuous (Especially if he were to show up as a human in Pride Lands, or as a regular person in Atlantica). They do not remotely modify his power level. And even if it did, he still battles several Disney villains in worlds where his appearance doesn't change (Maleficent in Hollow Bastion, Captain Hook in Neverland, Jafar in Agrabah, etc.).

The Disney villains, however silly it would seem, do legitimately match Sora (Or whatever protagonist they happen to be fighting) and give him a tough fight.

Out of all of out existing pages, the only one I feel needs adjustment is Clayton, since he only fought BoG Sora, who never had anything close to planetary feats.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

What about the bosses from the first couple Disney Worlds in any game?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Well, I was referring to those out of out existing pages.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

What about the likes of Tron or the 1920s Disney world, where they are actually entering worlds within worlds?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Timeless River is technically the same world as Disney Castle, just at a different point in time.

Space Paranoids/The Grid I'm unsure about, given how everything is technically data.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

But Timeless River appears to be a Toonforce world, from what can be seem.

 

[The_Everlasting]

It's constructed to look like and somewhat have the logic of 1920's cartoons, because that's really what it is, especially given the black-and-white color palette.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the Disney villains, in their home worlds, never display any feats approaching planetary level, or in most cases even city block level.

I find it ridiculous to assume that random zombie pirates from Pirates of the Caribbean, or the hyenas in the pridelands, would be able to destroy entire worlds.

It would logically lead to virtually every single denizen of those workds being able to destroy them at will.

Hence, I stand by that going by all appearances Sora strictly displays the same level of power as his surroundings when transported to those worlds. Just because it is not explicitly spelled out does not mean that it is not blatantly obvious within the story.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I'm not specifically advocating for every Disney villain to scale, just that the reasoning you give doesn't seem particularly logical since it's never once remotely implied that Sora's power decreases when he enters a Disney world (Which is especially noticeable when the world has him fight an Organization XIII member).

What I know for sure, however, is that this can still scale to Maleficent (Considering the major threat she posed in the first game) and Hades (Given his likely comparability to Zeus). Everyone else feels extremely problematic, but guys like Clayton and Hook very likely don't scale, or at the very least Clayton doesn't.

On the hero side of things, I'm uncertain about scaling to Hercules, but Beat was present during Sora's fight with Xemnas in KHI, so there's that.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Since I find myself unable to edit my previous messages, what I'm saying is it can't scale to villains who lack supernatural powers (Darkness-granted or otherwise), but everyone else is fair game in my book. Well, maybe not everyone, but you get my point.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, there is apparently a wiki-wide glitch that makes never replies and edits disappear from view on and off.

Anyway,, when summoned outside of their worlds to help Sora, characters such as Tarzan and Simba appear to scale to their surroundings, but nevertheless within their home worlds, not Disney villain with the exception of Hades, should possess anywhere near planetary level power.

Or at the very least they consistently displayed the same scale as in the original movies when present within the worlds/stories in question.

Kingdom Hearts does not particularly make sense in this regard, so I think that we should delete profiles such as Hook and Clayton.

Alternately place their statistics at unknown with a footnote.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Hook and Clayton I can agree with deleting, as having them scale seems a little silly.

However, as I have stated, I feel as though Maleficent's ranking can stay, considering how she's encountered the KH protagonists several times and held her own each time, in addition to her using the darkness to enhance her power.

Frankly, even if this whole thing wasn't an issue, I'd advocate not having so many Disney KH profiles, as I feel it would be a really excessive thing to do.

 

[Antvasima]

All right then. Maleficent and Pete can stay, as they displayed that kind of scale outside of their worlds, but I will likely delete the rest.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Well here's my thought on this.

One: Everlasting, you should have given me a list of people from the Disney side of KH so that i know i could put up a footnote on the KHverse page that not all disney characters can get the 5-A treatment or something of the 'bout like that. Or at least you could tell who and then i can try getting Antvasima to make a footnote on the verse page as well, either. Just saying that out of the blue here, man. Just saying.

Two: @Antvasima and Everlasting: (Speaking of the people), the points you made on weather Sora's (and i'll add in Terra, Ventus, and Aqua given they also traveled to other worlds as well as a few other KH characters) power level was adjusted to each world he goes to or not is what i've had thoughts about + one question and thought as well.

Like was it ever implied Sora and the others power level were adjusted to each Disney world they go to? Did a Disney character had any prior boost in power (or actually already had strong powers to begin with like Hades) that was evident enough to at least give Sora or any of the mentioned keyblade wielders i added above a tough challege?

In any case, i suppose that we may very well either have to delete the pages that don't make sense in rating or put them for unknown.

 

[Antvasima]

I have now deleted the most dubious Disney pages.

Anyway, when playing the games, I simply noticed that all of the characters within the worlds that Sora visited were kept near their original scale, during fights or othervise.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Mmmm.

I do personally feel that Beast could have possibly stayed. Like Everlasting noted, Beast WAS there when Xemnas himself showed in KH Final Mix, and he was there when Sora's gang defeated Xaldin. That and he did survive a blast from near EoG Riku also in KH1. But eh, whatever.

If Sora and the others powers were indeed scaled down to whatever known power level each verse was known to have, then this at least reinforces that Xemnas (during the time no game after KH2 was made, i mean) was the most powerful character than the likes of Maleficent, Hades, etc.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Zeus, Hades, Hercules, Maleficent (Possibly Prince Whatever-His-Name-Is too), Pete (Would be logical for him to be comparable to Donald and Goofy, too) and Beast all seem reasonable.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Zeus, Hades, Hercules, Maleficent (Possibly Prince Whatever-His-Name-Is too), Pete (Would be logical for him to be comparable to Donald and Goofy, too) and Beast all seem reasonable.

Hmm. The only problem is that Kingdom Hearts Zeus has yet to actually appear in the series (though that's going to possibly cahnge when Kingdom Hearts 3 comes out next year). Maleficent and Pete are alright. Beast is too IMHO like what i and Everlasting said. Hades and Hercs? Meh. *shrugs*

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am too tired to argue much, but Maleficent and Pete are probably fine. Hades and Hercules were likely very powerful, but uncertain how powerful in their home worlds, and Beast did not display any particular power at all within his home world, but was likely scaled up when he left it.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I think that it is better to play this safe, and not take chances with any uncertain profiles.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Hmm. Very well then.

Edit: Can we at least leave a footnote of sorts regarding this matter just like what we did for Dragon Ball?

 

[Antvasima]

That might be an idea, but I have already removed the questionable pages.

What do you think that such a note should say?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Aye.

Well i've set a (kind of) long paragraph relating to this thread here, that's one. Here

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. I have modified it to explain the points.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

No problem.

 

[Slaphappyjoy]

I'd like to see The Everlasting's, or that of any KH Suporter, opinion in this before any great change.

The added note on the KH page and the changes make sense to me.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. I will lock this topic then.