The Perfect Human vs Kira (8-0-0) *GRACE*

[DeltaStriker22]

Ayanokoji Kiyotaka vs Light Yagami​

Plot:
After the events of COTE Year 1...
Ayanokoji gets a misterious phone call. On the other end is his father. He informs him about the seriel killer god known as 'Kira' and offers him a deal.

"If you can catch Kira, you'll have your freedom."

Ayanokoji accepts and begins his hunt for Kira. Will he earn his freedom? Or will he get mysterious death like the rest of Kira's victims?

On the other side...
Ryuk finds out about this information. To create an interesting situation for him to witness, he tells Light.

"A certain genius 'X' is out to get you. What will you do?"

Light starts preparing to take out 'X' before 'X' takes him out. Will he get caught and executed? Or will he prevail and keep working towards becoming the God of the new world?

Rules:

• Current Ayanokoji is used.
• Ayanokoji has access to all his equipment and his father's resources.
• Light has access to all his equipment and his father's resources.
• Ayanokoji is in ANHS, but has permission to leave whenever he pleases.
• Light is at his house in Kanto.
• Events happening before the Lind L. Tailor incident.
• L and Misa don't exist.
• Ayanokoji's Stats:
  • AP: 13.2 Kilojoules
  • Speed: 72++ m/s
• Light's Stats:
  • AP: 1.5 Kilojoules, Death Manipulation via Death Note
  • Speed: at least 7.7 m/s (Base Athletic Human)

Wincons:

• Ayanokoji finds Light and pays him a visit.
• Light finds Ayanokoji's identity and writes his name in a certain diary.

Ayanokoji Kiyotaka (8): @XxZetsuxX, @Rikimarox2, @Doggo, @TheHuntsman1001, @RoggerReggor, @Cimafranca133, @Robo432343, @DeltaStriker22
Light Yagami (0):
Inconclusive (0):

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Making this again because the last one is almost a year old.
And also because Ayanokoji has gained new feats and abilities since then.

 

[Vzearr]

Extraordinary Genius vs Genius.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Genius vs Extraordinary Genius.

Even with EG there is no way Ayanokoji will be able to deduce the existance of the Death Note.
That's a huge advantage for Light.

 

[Vzearr]

Even with EG there is no way Ayanokoji will be able to deduce the existance of the Death Note.
That's a huge advantage for Light.

L did.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

L did.

L deduced a few abilities of the death note, not the existance of the notebook itself and exactly how it worked.
He only found out about the notebook and exactly how it works after Higuchi got caught.

 

[Vzearr]

Hmmm.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Hmmm.

Kinda not how it works

Koji's EG comes from predicting the future via sheer mental calcs and outsmarting a supercomputer from the government

This match requires EQ, SQ, Reasoning, Thinking, Planning, Strategy and other stuff

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Honestly, This matchup has already been done before though they weren't finished

But Reggor's reasoning is still up ig

I will be voting Koji via Reggor's reasoning

 

[DeltaStriker22]

I will be voting Koji via Reggor's reasoning

Noted.
I'll start counting votes once some arguments for Light are here.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Extraordinary Genius vs Genius.

General Intelligence ratings such as Extraordinary Genius or Genius just shows the superiority of a character in the information processing speed, strategies construction, knowledge, prediction ability and narrative superiority in such categories. But most of the other areas such as manipulation, deception, negotiation, or other kinds of social influencing, the person's emotional intelligence, social intelligence etc. remain unexplored most of the times, for ratings above Genius.

In fact, Omniscience as a tier isn't truly just a boost to a person's intelligence overall, but only their knowledge and general intelligence, and there are examples in fiction where characters with lower levels of intellect have outsmarted omniscience.

Either way, the point is that you can be a Genius and still trouble an Extraordinary Genius. In Year 2 Volume 4, Kiyotaka himself was troubled by Takuya Yagami (he's an Above Genius, but not an extraordinary genius), and had to save an opportunity to expel him, though he still canonically very low diffed him later on.

 

[Rikimarox2]

I forgot you can make VS threads that aren't actual battles of strength but instead of other things. Shit, maybe I should do one with Baku vs Koji or L someday in gambling or smth.

Regardless, idk jack about Ayano except for S1 of the anime. Apparently Rogger has given reasoning for Koji in another thread, can I see the reasoning for why Koji wins?

 

[RoggerReggor]

I forgot you can make VS threads that aren't actual battles of strength but instead of other things. Shit, maybe I should do one with Baku vs Koji or L someday in gambling or smth.

Regardless, idk jack about Ayano except for S1 of the anime. Apparently Rogger has given reasoning for Koji in another thread, can I see the reasoning for why Koji wins?

We have to catch Kira (remake)

This is an intellectual battle Case He have the death note and wants to change humanity by killing all the criminals in the world or anyone he sees fit, but unfortunately for him, the greatest detective from the white room enters the case and promises to catch kira by all means possible Rules...

vsbattles.com

 

[RoggerReggor]

Also, here's a YT video talking about the same and explaining how Kiyotaka would win, it just matches my arguments till some extent as well.

 

[Cimafranca133]

Takuya is enough Following

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Takuya is enough Following

I have Nagumo extreme diffing lol

 

[DeltaStriker22]

I have Nagumo extreme diffing lol

Sudou mid diffs

 

[RoggerReggor]

I have Nagumo extreme diffing lol

This is wild. Even those SCD scalers who had Nagumo extreme diffing have changed their opinion now.

Sudou mid diffs

*no diffs (physically )

 

[XxZetsuxX]

This is wild. Even those SCD scalers who had Nagumo extreme diffing have changed their opinion now.

IQ, EQ, Planning, Reasoning, Thinking and Foresight to Nagumo

SQ, Manipulation, Deception, Intelligence, Strategy to Light

 

[RoggerReggor]

IQ, EQ, Planning, Reasoning, Thinking and Foresight to Nagumo

SQ, Manipulation, Deception, Intelligence, Strategy to Light

 

[Rikimarox2]

Haven't seen the entirety of the video, but after seeing the post Rogger linked, as well as the X strategy from the profile and a few other posts online, I believe Koji should win this handily. Koji FRA.

 

[Rayfire]

Also, here's a YT video talking about the same and explaining how Kiyotaka would win, it just matches my arguments till some extent as well.

I've seen that video before i believe, although i can't watch it in full right now, but the X strategy is flawed from what i remember, and it made me think the creator didn't watch death note at all

Light has faced this exact scenario before against L, when he placed dozens of camera's in his room to prove that light was kira, and light was still able to remain undetected and kill criminals through a tiny ahh tv in a potato chip bag (Which is where the meme comes from) and that's when he's being watched 24/7 in his room by someone far more experienced than him, and his first time dealing with something like this.

Light will definitely find a way to get around this to kill criminals the whole time, therefore making it look like he's studying more than anything just like with the camera's. Turning off the electricity also doesn't do much, since light can just use the mini tv from the potato chip strategy again for example, which doesn't require any outlets. The fact that ayanokoji doesn't even have camera's installed in his room makes this even easier for him to do this as well.

Even if ayanokoji knows about the death note and he did install camera's to amp up the strategy (Which light gets around easily anyway, even on his first time handling that), footage of light simply writing isn't enough to prove he is kira. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of other people in japan will be doing that at the same time, and light is among the busiest of them too, which makes proving he is kira using that logic even more unlikely.

I'll watch the video in more depth when i can though

 

[RoggerReggor]

I am assuming you have read COTE, and I will just mention the feats, assuming that you already know about them. Please tell me if you don't.

I've seen that video before i believe, although i can't watch it in full right now, but the X strategy is flawed from what i remember, and it made me think the creator didn't watch death note at all

The feats from Year 1 Volume 4 to Year 1 Volume 7 aren't mainly strategy, but they lean towards the planning sector. And it isn't flawed. There were about 3 different ways between paths where Kiyotaka could have defeated Ryuuen.
1. The first one being when Kiyotaka beat up Ryuuen.
2. Kiyotaka never showing up at the venue but using the same thing he did in Year 2 Vol. 3 and record Ryuuen beating Kei and get him expelled.
3. Kiyotaka accepting Manebe's invitation in Year 1 Volume 5 and revealing his identity early on, and attack Ryuuen's consciousness.
The 1st one, of course, is the best one for someone like Kiyotaka.

And also, Avent has read Death Note, considering how he kind of provide scans for quite literally everything which he talked about. He also does pretty accurate inverse Death Note matchups. The thing you could be disagreeing with is most likely his battle assumptions.

The primary reason why Light was defending himself was because in Episode 2 or just very early on, L revealed himself and announced to the entire world that he was trying to catch him. Also, Ryuk had to help Light in order to not have him caught by the cameras, tell the density of cameras, and Light had to safely find a spot from where he could do the killings. Kiyotaka would also help the Lind L. Tailor scams go very differently. When Light kills Lind, Kiyotaka would never reveal himself then.

Light has faced this exact scenario before against L, when he placed dozens of camera's in his room to prove that light was kira, and light was still able to remain undetected and kill criminals through a tiny ahh tv in a potato chip bag (Which is where the meme comes from) and that's when he's being watched 24/7 in his room by someone far more experienced than him, and his first time dealing with something like this.

True, but that was precisely because someone had already revealed about them trying to catch Kira. Kiyotaka will use a much more secret approach. Not to mention, Kiyotaka is probably much better than L in seeing details, upon the Year 1 Volume 9 can feat, Mixed Training camp deductions, etc.

Light will definitely find a way to get around this to kill criminals the whole time, therefore making it look like he's studying more than anything just like with the camera's. Turning off the electricity also doesn't do much, since light can just use the mini tv from the potato chip strategy again for example, which doesn't require any outlets. The fact that ayanokoji doesn't even have camera's installed in his room makes this even easier for him to do this as well.

Even if ayanokoji knows about the death note and he did install camera's to amp up the strategy (Which light gets around easily anyway, even on his first time handling that), footage of light simply writing isn't enough to prove he is kira. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of other people in japan will be doing that at the same time, and light is among the busiest of them too, which makes proving he is kira using that logic even more unlikely.

The cameras aren't the only thing which Kiyotaka can do, Kiyotaka is the type of person who would probably use cameras, but then point out how Light was deliberately hiding a part of his desk (evident from Ichika's analysis from Year 2 Volume 4.5), and actually install more and more cameras. He will probably do much more, like installing cameras on Light's collar, clothes and see stuff in person just in front. All he needs to do is prove that Light is the one doing the killings. Kiyotaka is much more capable in visual-spatial analysis than even L. L left out some blind spots, even with 64 cameras, Kiyotaka wouldn't, that's the difference. L is still dependent upon intuition by a bit, while Kiyotaka generally goes with what he's shown most of the times.

 

[Doggo]

Kiyo FRA

Finally a figth that plays to his wit

 

[Rayfire]

I am assuming you have read COTE, and I will just mention the feats, assuming that you already know about them. Please tell me if you don't.

I've watched the first season of the anime and a bit of the second, but beyond that i'm mostly clueless lol

The primary reason why Light was defending himself was because in Episode 2 or just very early on, L revealed himself and announced to the entire world that he was trying to catch him. Also, Ryuk had to help Light in order to not have him caught by the cameras, tell the density of cameras, and Light had to safely find a spot from where he could do the killings. Kiyotaka would also help the Lind L. Tailor scams go very differently. When Light kills Lind, Kiyotaka would never reveal himself then.

Light is still gonna know somebody is on his tail though. Ryuk reveals it to him as soon as this scenario starts so that light, y'know, actually stands a chance Besides the Lind L. Tailor slip-up, light is still gonna be on guard regardless, and ayanokoji still has to single him out across everyone in kanto to begin with.

Light did immediately know the camera's were in his room judging from what i believe was pencil lead not cracking in his doorframe or something (Forgot exactly what it was, but that's basically how light knew somebody had been in his room when he wasnt there, since when the door opens, the lead inside it snaps. No snap = somebody went in there) he just couldn't see them. Realistically, i think light could have gotten out of that on his own though. The potato bag strategy had a mini tv that was too dim to be picked up by the camera's even when it was staring right into the bag, although that was when the lights in his room were turned off. Light was just playing it safe by giving ryuk apples to tell him where the camera's were.

True, but that was precisely because someone had already revealed about them trying to catch Kira. Kiyotaka will use a much more secret approach. Not to mention, Kiyotaka is probably much better than L in seeing details, upon the Year 1 Volume 9 can feat, Mixed Training camp deductions, etc.

Yeah, but the same thing is happening here. Light knows that somethings up, so he's going to be careful just like he was in the anime. Light only killed Lind L. Tailor because he got super pissed off when Tailor started talking smack about kira, but he still thought logically most of the time and didn’t kill anyone super close to him just because they were annoying like in the first episode I believe.

L did use some secretive strategies too, and light still weasled his way out of it, like with Ray penber. Secretive attacks aren’t something light can’t handle, especially with Ryuk often informing him whenever something is about to happen, which gives light time to think and act no matter how secretive Ayanokoji is.

The cameras aren't the only thing which Kiyotaka can do, Kiyotaka is the type of person who would probably use cameras, but then point out how Light was deliberately hiding a part of his desk (evident from Ichika's analysis from Year 2 Volume 4.5), and actually install more and more cameras. He will probably do much more, like installing cameras on Light's collar, clothes and see stuff in person just in front. All he needs to do is prove that Light is the one doing the killings. Kiyotaka is much more capable in visual-spatial analysis than even L. L left out some blind spots, even with 64 cameras, Kiyotaka wouldn't, that's the difference. L is still dependent upon intuition by a bit, while Kiyotaka generally goes with what he's shown most of the times.

How would Ayanokoji get that kind of technology in a late 90’s/early 2000’s world? If it was that easy, L definitely would have done something like that too, but he didn’t.

How would you prove that light is deliberately hiding part of his desk in the first place? I feel like that’d be really difficult to explain or justify, even for someone as smart as Ayanokoji. If light ever gets questioned, he could just say that he was leaning over his desk because he was trying to concentrate really hard (The anime takes place near the time of the To-oh entrance exams) and that alone would also explain the speed of which this dude writes.

 

[Rayfire]

I feel it’s a bit too early to vote, I think I can definitely provide a solid case for light, but I am pretty neutral rn, especially since I’m no COTE expert, lol

 

[RoggerReggor]

I've watched the first season of the anime and a bit of the second, but beyond that i'm mostly clueless lol

Ah crap, I thought you were a COTE scaler. I am sorry for confusions though.

Light is still gonna know somebody is on his tail though. Ryuk reveals it to him as soon as this scenario starts so that light, y'know, actually stands a chance Besides the Lind L. Tailor slip-up, light is still gonna be on guard regardless, and ayanokoji still has to single him out across everyone in kanto to begin with.

Light was not on guard against the Lind. L Tailor slip up, he didn't have a second thought about revealing himself. And about Ryuk, I mean that if you have read my entire thing, you would know that I think that Kiyotaka would not put only 64 cameras, but cameras more concentrated in the spots where people usually would sit, and notice an anomaly even if Light deliberately changed his spot, and link it with the fact that he had put up cameras in his room.

Light did immediately know the camera's were in his room judging from what i believe was pencil lead not cracking in his doorframe or something (Forgot exactly what it was, but that's basically how light knew somebody had been in his room when he wasnt there, since when the door opens, the lead inside it snaps. No snap = somebody went in there) he just couldn't see them. Realistically, i think light could have gotten out of that on his own though. The potato bag strategy had a mini tv that was too dim to be picked up by the camera's even when it was staring right into the bag, although that was when the lights in his room were turned off. Light was just playing it safe by giving ryuk apples to tell him where the camera's were.

Hear me out, while Light was using the aid from the task force, there's no confirmation on how good the task force is with concealing stuff or their presence, but considering someone like Kiyotaka, he would let this slip. He is much better with feats in stealth mastery, and it isn't like Light is as observative as Kiyotaka. Kiyotaka's prediction and countermeasures feats in his profile are more than enough.

That's why I say that he perfectly counters Light.

Yeah, but the same thing is happening here. Light knows that somethings up, so he's going to be careful just like he was in the anime. Light only killed Lind L. Tailor because he got super pissed off when Tailor started talking smack about kira, but he still thought logically most of the time and didn’t kill anyone super close to him just because they were annoying like in the first episode I believe.

The thing is, while Light may be careful, he severely lacks preparation for counterattacks, like he wasn't thoughtful of the notebook being replaced by Near. And about the Ryuk thing, even though Ryuk may make Light aware,

L did use some secretive strategies too, and light still weasled his way out of it, like with Ray penber. Secretive attacks aren’t something light can’t handle, especially with Ryuk often informing him whenever something is about to happen, which gives light time to think and act no matter how secretive Ayanokoji is.

Raye Penber wasn't receiving orders from L and wasn't in very close association with L at the time of investigating Light, he was working independently. And Raye had basically given out his name, which as I said, wouldn't be the case with Kiyotaka. He would try to investigate what is needed by Light to kill people, and quickly make out that the one doing the killings needs the name of the target and instruct the stalker to do as he willed. The funny thing is that despite all that, Raye Penber with his own observation skills was enough suspicious of Light, and he was still fixated on him, so the only thing is that we can imagine how well Light would be trapped with Kiyotaka's own traps.

And Ryuk is mostly not informing Light about everything, we cannot use it as an excuse to say that Ryuk would help Light with everything. There are so many times he hasn't helped Light, like not telling Naomi's tricks, or revealing Penber's presence, or not even revealing that the Death Note which Light had was a fake one, which basically caused his death. Light is highly penetrable to double-layered traps, and this is kind of very bad because while L used straight approaches with high success rate, Kiyotaka uses traps with two layers. Hell, Kiyotaka can even measure two-layered traps. As you are an anime-only, you might be aware about Kiyotaka's sim exchange with Yukimura and Kei in the cruise-ship exam (I think it was Planet exam in the anime), he predicted that someone could actually call him, all too easily.

How would Ayanokoji get that kind of technology in a late 90’s/early 2000’s world? If it was that easy, L definitely would have done something like that too, but he didn’t.

I am not talking about him using the tech of his world in Light's world, I am just talking about how Kiyotaka would place cameras which are revealed to be small and inconspicuous in both the source materials, in Light's clothes, near the desk, near the bed, and the areas where Light usually spends his time around (by analyzing him). Kiyotaka is a much better analyst, which makes him much better enough to make observations of Light than L and do this.

How would you prove that light is deliberately hiding part of his desk in the first place? I feel like that’d be really difficult to explain or justify, even for someone as smart as Ayanokoji. If light ever gets questioned, he could just say that he was leaning over his desk because he was trying to concentrate really hard (The anime takes place near the time of the To-oh entrance exams) and that alone would also explain the speed of which this dude writes.

I am talking about exactly that, Kiyotaka would cover up the entire desk and cover all the normal positions possible. And you are wrong about this, Kiyotaka cannot question Light about anything, but only be more and more suspicious of him, even L couldn't question Light. Light was just acting suspicious at this point, and it would be too idiotic to reveal yourself to someone who's suspicious of having that kind of power.

 

[Rayfire]

Light was not on guard against the Lind. L Tailor slip up, he didn't have a second thought about revealing himself. And about Ryuk, I mean that if you have read my entire thing, you would know that I think that Kiyotaka would not put only 64 cameras, but cameras more concentrated in the spots where people usually would sit, and notice an anomaly even if Light deliberately changed his spot, and link it with the fact that he had put up cameras in his room.

That was only because Lindy boy Really pissed off light by calling him out. Plus, the world already knew that Kira existed. If Ayanokoji took a secretive approach, he couldn’t really figure out or at least present solid evidence that Kira needed a name and face to kill. That was the whole point of L revealing himself as the real L in the second half of the broadcast. Lind’s death wouldn’t really prove anything, he’d just become another Kira victim regardless of whether or not Kira has to kill with a name and face or not unless Ayanokoji does the same thing as L, which is pretty out of character for him.

If you look to the left at around 14-15 seconds in This Clip, L did place a load of camera’s on light’ desk where he sat, and he still didn’ see the mini tv in the potato bag or really get anything that indicated light was Kira. Even if Ayanokoji knows about the death note and questions light, Light can just say he was studying and prove himself innocent, or even bring up how there’s many other students in kanto that could be Kira with the amount of evidence Ayanokoji would have, which would be slim-to-none at that moment

Hear me out, while Light was using the aid from the task force, there's no confirmation on how good the task force is with concealing stuff or their presence, but considering someone like Kiyotaka, he would let this slip. He is much better with feats in stealth mastery, and it isn't like Light is as observative as Kiyotaka. Kiyotaka's prediction and countermeasures feats in his profile are more than enough.

That's why I say that he perfectly counters Light.

Well, we do know that INTERPOL is going to have the top detectives and agents in the entire world, so I’d say their ability to stay stealthy is also really good if we compare them to real life people, and light still noticed them.

Plus, even if he did get face-to-face with light, unless Ayanokoji sends a bunch of FBI agents to do the work for him, that would just be an opportunity for light to know the face of X if light manages to see him stalking him, From there, all light really needs to do is act normal just like he did with Rey Penber, (Which he does pretty much all the time anyway) and even if Ayanokoji see’s through it, he still doesn’t have any evidence to convict him.

Raye Penber wasn't receiving orders from L and wasn't in very close association with L at the time of investigating Light, he was working independently. And Raye had basically given out his name, which as I said, wouldn't be the case with Kiyotaka. He would try to investigate what is needed by Light to kill people, and quickly make out that the one doing the killings needs the name of the target and instruct the stalker to do as he willed. The funny thing is that despite all that, Raye Penber with his own observation skills was enough suspicious of Light, and he was still fixated on him, so the only thing is that we can imagine how well Light would be trapped with Kiyotaka's own traps.

Yeah, but light still weasels his way out of Penber’s suspicion’s by creating a busjacking incident, and makes everything else that goes down a complete accident. After that, Penber thought light was completely innocent. He even convinced penber to give him his FBI nametag to give himself an advantage later on in the series. It won’t be as easy with Ayanokoji obviously, but it doesn’t matter if Koji knows about the death note or not. If light doesn’t give Ayanokoji solid evidence that he’s Kira, Ayanokoji can’t convict him. L knew that light was Kira for a long time, and light still manages to outsmart him even though he’s more experienced in situations like this, so we know that light is more than capable of this too.

And Ryuk is mostly not informing Light about everything, we cannot use it as an excuse to say that Ryuk would help Light with everything. There are so many times he hasn't helped Light, like not telling Naomi's tricks, or revealing Penber's presence, or not even revealing that the Death Note which Light had was a fake one, which basically caused his death. Light is highly penetrable to double-layered traps, and this is kind of very bad because while L used straight approaches with high success rate, Kiyotaka uses traps with two layers. Hell, Kiyotaka can even measure two-layered traps. As you are an anime-only, you might be aware about Kiyotaka's sim exchange with Yukimura and Kei in the cruise-ship exam (I think it was Planet exam in the anime), he predicted that someone could actually call him, all too easily.

Yeah, but light can always bribe ryuk to do things he doesn’t want to himself with apples, like he did with the camera’s.

I am not talking about him using the tech of his world in Light's world, I am just talking about how Kiyotaka would place cameras which are revealed to be small and inconspicuous in both the source materials, in Light's clothes, near the desk, near the bed, and the areas where Light usually spends his time around (by analyzing him). Kiyotaka is a much better analyst, which makes him much better enough to make observations of Light than L and do this.

L placed camera’s directly on lights desk, bed, whatever, and still didn’t get any evidence of him being Kira.

What would happen if light just… acted normal for an entire day and just threw the clothes in a washing machine or something to short-circuit the camera’s in his clothes? Or what if he just changed into ones that didn’t have camera’s? I feel like that’s something light still could work around. He could probably think of something way better than those two examples I just gave.

I am talking about exactly that, Kiyotaka would cover up the entire desk and cover all the normal positions possible. And you are wrong about this, Kiyotaka cannot question Light about anything, but only be more and more suspicious of him, even L couldn't question Light. Light was just acting suspicious at this point, and it would be too idiotic to reveal yourself to someone who's suspicious of having that kind of power.

The whole reason L met up with him at To-oh was to both test light and also to question him “secretively”. That was why he did the whole “Deductive Reasoning Skills” Test. He was suspicion of light.

In the clip I showed you, the camera’s would have covered his entire desk anyway, and lights potato chip bag strat still worked wonders against it. I don’t think adding more camera’s would make much of a difference if they cover every relevant inch of his room and light can still work around it.

I still remember the episode. I was wondering how the heck light got that mini tv inside it without opening the bag first guess he just re-sealed it somehow

 

[Rayfire]

Kiyotaka is a much better analyst, which makes him much better enough to make observations of Light than L and do this.

I haven’t read the Light Novel’s much, mostly just a few random pages of it online, so forgive me if I’m wrong, but I should point out that Ayanokoji needed help from half the school to expel Takuya Yagami, who is also a genius-tier character like Light. Ayanokoji couldn’t gather anything significant to expel him on his own even though Takuya is described as inferior to him intellectually

 

[DeltaStriker22]

I haven’t read the Light Novel’s much, mostly just a few random pages of it online, so forgive me if I’m wrong, but I should point out that Ayanokoji needed help from half the school to expel Takuya Yagami, who is also a genius-tier character like Light. Ayanokoji couldn’t gather anything significant to expel him on his own even though Takuya is described as inferior to him intellectually

This is not accurate. Koji didn't need help to get rid of Yagami, he chose to involve all those people to expell Yagami in the most humiliating way possible. I won't say any further because spoilers (unless you want me to explain).

 

[DeltaStriker22]

I'm gonna repost a strategy I thought Ayanokoji could impliment from the last match:

So, here's how I see this going. Ayanokoji will form a hypothesis and narrow down Light's location to Kanto region in Japan the same way L did due to his superior intelligence but unlike L, he won't reveal himself.

Ayanokoji(especially Year1 Ayanokoji) manipulates from the shadows without attracting any attention to himself. He'd probably use forums(like the ones that gave Kira his name) that are in support or in opposition of Kira and manipulate people there into performing different acts, be it against Kira or something in the name of Kira to gauge his reactions, maturity, intel gathering skills and resources.

For example:
He could find a forum that supports Kira. There he could claim to be Kira and from there use his father's resources and information to find a corrupt politician and slip something into his food/drink that'd make him publically die of a stroke or something and frame it as a heart attack, convinsing these few people that he is Kira. He'd create a cult like following with these people overime before using them as his pawns.

From there he'd command these people to do acts in the name of Kira, that would ruin the reputation of the real Kira to see how Light would react. At the same time he'd set them up to get caught by the police in the act and use his father's authority to only release the names and faces of only a few people, set those few people to get interviewed live where the'd have been given instructions to reval the names of the others to reveal only the names of the other perpetrators and sprout ideologies in the name of Kira that go against Light's ideology.

Kira without a doubt will kill the ones who appear on the interview, giving Ayanokoji a solid grasp of how Light's reactions and if he can kill the ones who didn't appear on TV(which he will), ayanokoji will deduce that he has access to police intel. Getting him all the intel L gathered.

 

[RoggerReggor]

It seems like we are going in circles, but let me say this, the Ryuk factor isn't absolute and cannot be used by Light every time he wants. Light just confirmed his suspicion with Ryuk, and there are many times when Ryuk hasn't helped Light.

That was only because Lindy boy Really pissed off light by calling him out. Plus, the world already knew that Kira existed. If Ayanokoji took a secretive approach, he couldn’t really figure out or at least present solid evidence that Kira needed a name and face to kill. That was the whole point of L revealing himself as the real L in the second half of the broadcast. Lind’s death wouldn’t really prove anything, he’d just become another Kira victim regardless of whether or not Kira has to kill with a name and face or not unless Ayanokoji does the same thing as L, which is pretty out of character for him.

Kiyotaka will use baits by using others.
The entire reason why L even revealed himself was to counter Light isolating him from help. But here, that is not the case, as Kiyotaka is having his own team instead of some police, and he wouldn't really need to take the risk of finding Kira by having himself walk around.

Also, the original Lind L. Tailor scam 50% confirms that Kira needs a face to kill people.

Here's what I think Kiyotaka would do when he modifies the Lind L. Tailor scam:
1. Put a false name on the original Lind L. Tailor to deceive Light, however, never have Lind reveal his true name.
2. Then mention it blatantly that after a much longer time that there was a huge problem in him revealing his name, If the timeframe between both the things is very long (and Light will be of course seeing it due to him being Kira and needing to watch the criminals daily to kill them), then he will kill him on that spot, and then it would be revealed 100% that Kira needs both face and name of the person to kill someone.

The reason why Kiyotaka would think of it in the first place is due to his probability thinking and because of how far his risk assessment and countermeasures development goes.

He can also do the same with manipulating the information of the criminals (in fact, doing it would be much better, due to the fact that the criminals who are broadcasted would be killed one by one and if Kiyotaka forces manipulation of the name of at least one criminal, then others being killed and one being left would only make it easier for him to point out that fact and reach to the conclusion that Kira needs a name to kill). I am very proud of myself, I legit thought of a strategy to find out both Kira's location and that he needs a name to do things.

If you look to the left at around 14-15 seconds in This Clip, L did place a load of camera’s on light’ desk where he sat, and he still didn’ see the mini tv in the potato bag or really get anything that indicated light was Kira. Even if Ayanokoji knows about the death note and questions light, Light can just say he was studying and prove himself innocent, or even bring up how there’s many other students in kanto that could be Kira with the amount of evidence Ayanokoji would have, which would be slim-to-none at that moment

I already said that Kiyotaka would try to focus the cameras on Light's clothes and around his neck which would give us the view of Light's perspective on its own. And just like I said how Kiyotaka is a counter-measure master, even if Light was to take a muffler to cover his neck with (because it completely makes sense for Light to do it due to there being cold weather), he would put a camera by modifying the muffler as well. That's how stupidly smart Kiyotaka is in terms of keeping some countermeasures. We cannot forget as well that Kiyotaka quite literally has an unlimited budget, so buying many cameras wouldn't be that big of a problem.

Well, we do know that INTERPOL is going to have the top detectives and agents in the entire world, so I’d say their ability to stay stealthy is also really good if we compare them to real life people, and light still noticed them.

True, but the thing is that Kiyotaka would be using Tsukishiro, who has an experience of killing people, and is walking freely in the real world. Tsukishiro is a kind of person who can go as far as torturing Light, once it is found that Kira needs a name to kill people.

Plus, even if he did get face-to-face with light, unless Ayanokoji sends a bunch of FBI agents to do the work for him, that would just be an opportunity for light to know the face of X if light manages to see him stalking him, From there, all light really needs to do is act normal just like he did with Rey Penber, (Which he does pretty much all the time anyway) and even if Ayanokoji see’s through it, he still doesn’t have any evidence to convict him.

Kiyotaka can go as far as manipulating Light's TV (you did have the recorder technology during that time) and see what Light is seeing during that time and what he is doing. I am telling you; Kiyotaka has a much more access to things than Light. And Light cannot be ready for everything. Kiyotaka can easily make his entire room with full of traps which can help him trace his positions. L's intuition was also somehow bad for him because he concluded at one thing only, but Kiyotaka is the kind of person who doesn't need more than 90% suspicion, he would try to go a full 100%.

Yeah, but light still weasels his way out of Penber’s suspicion’s by creating a busjacking incident, and makes everything else that goes down a complete accident. After that, Penber thought light was completely innocent. He even convinced penber to give him his FBI nametag to give himself an advantage later on in the series. It won’t be as easy with Ayanokoji obviously, but it doesn’t matter if Koji knows about the death note or not. If light doesn’t give Ayanokoji solid evidence that he’s Kira, Ayanokoji can’t convict him. L knew that light was Kira for a long time, and light still manages to outsmart him even though he’s more experienced in situations like this, so we know that light is more than capable of this too.

Like I said, Penber was careless, and even L could have probably instructed Penber to do better, but Penber acted on his own.

About the Kiyotaka convicting Light, and Light being able to outsmart L, it happened because L was in a very disadvantageous situation, but the thing which is true is that Near was also able to catch Light, due to the counter measures exploitation, which Light almost needs a high amount of prep time to deal with (he needed almost a week to think for all the countermeasures when he was planning to lose his memories), and Kiyotaka can attack Light as much as he wants. Honestly, this doesn't seem like Light has even a bit of an advantage here. Kiyotaka can quite literally cut Light's house's power, and Light would never be ready with another mini-TV just because he wouldn't just randomly know that someone was actually going to do that thing with him.

Yeah, but light can always bribe ryuk to do things he doesn’t want to himself with apples, like he did with the camera’s.

True, but we know that Light doesn't use it very often, neither does Ryuk seem naturally very hungry for apples. He like apples, but again, he isn't going to do something which can directly put Kiyotaka at a risk (because he himself wanted a fair fight between Light and L), but only help Light to escape situations, and that too, he doesn't do every time regularly. Also, Ryuk isn't always like "If you give me apples, then I will help you.", we cannot really use one time of Ryuk helping Light as an excuse of him always being a help and ignore that there are many times when Ryuk hasn't helped Light.

What would happen if light just… acted normal for an entire day and just threw the clothes in a washing machine or something to short-circuit the camera’s in his clothes? Or what if he just changed into ones that didn’t have camera’s? I feel like that’s something light still could work around. He could probably think of something way better than those two examples I just gave.

Like I said, this is like some very stupid counter. Kiyotaka would be able to think about even the muffler thing, washing clothes is a very small part of the problems. And Kiyotaka can ultimately be much more suspicious of Light if he does anything like that.

Light didn't take a bath around that time, and that can make him suspicious. And nothing is stopping Kiyotaka from doing it literally every day, and then just changing it. He can easily see that and then put the cameras in his all the clothes.

And no, Light cannot think as much as you say. While you may think that Light is actually much smarter than you, the fact that he's desperate enough to be stupid enough to give himself to Near in times of desperation shows enough of how badly he can fail against Kiyotaka. Takuya Yagami was desperate to defeat Kiyotaka, and Light is desperate to win and show his victory egoistically.

What I thought about is just the least of the things, Kiyotaka can go as far as replicating things in Light's room and then putting them. Like he can have another desk and easily replicate it and put it in Light's room. That would hardly cost anything against even 64 cameras, considering one camera costs like $30 each (even that is probably very less, but let's go with that), then 64 would cost $1920 which is more than enough to have an entire desk replicated, which is like the storage of the Death Note.

The whole reason L met up with him at To-oh was to both test light and also to question him “secretively”. That was why he did the whole “Deductive Reasoning Skills” Test. He was suspicion of light.

L has been symbolized for "God's Intuition", and he was 90% sure that Light was Kira (even when he says that the chances of Light being Kira increase by only some percentages), this is confirmed in the Death Note guide, and even the crime files. The reason why L approached Light was to test if Light actually was smart, and the entire reason why L did the deduction test was to see if Light was actually really doing anything to have Kira protected, but yes, Light kind of thought about it and acted out to counter that as well.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I haven’t read the Light Novel’s much, mostly just a few random pages of it online, so forgive me if I’m wrong, but I should point out that Ayanokoji needed help from half the school to expel Takuya Yagami, who is also a genius-tier character like Light. Ayanokoji couldn’t gather anything significant to expel him on his own even though Takuya is described as inferior to him intellectually

As DeltaStriker22 pointed out, this is wrong, yes. Kiyotaka didn't need help from half of the school, but he just used them to expel him. He brilliantly took the opportunity of Ryuuen and Nagumo having a meeting and there were only like 2 high powers of the school involved in it, others couldn't really do anything. The funny thing is that Kiyotaka needed to humiliate Takuya and never show himself up. If Kiyotaka needed, then he could have gone to Takuya, then humiliate him in any way he wanted, but as I said, Kiyotaka needed to not go into the limelight and have Takuya trash him.

If you need, I will explain how just Kiyotaka knowing how two people were going to meet and talk lead Kiyotaka to have this entire thing planned, and show how badly can a single thing have Kiyotaka catch Light.

If you remember the X planning, Kiyotaka planned that entire thing from the fact that Kei was getting bullied, the fact that he connected both of those things, along with knowing that Hirata was fake-dating Kei is enough to show that he has a much better attack variation than L possibly never had.

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

I'm gonna repost a strategy I thought Ayanokoji could impliment from the last match:

This is definitely plausible, but not the only method Ayanokouji has of determining the existence of the Death Note and tracking Kira. Overall, I will give a broad overview of how I see this matchup going.

1. Ayanokouji's Inductive reasoning (pattern recognition and using sets of data to draw conclusions) is completely insane compare to anything showcased in Death Note. He would be able to draw conclusions about how Kira is killing based just on looking at rising heart attack deaths. We see Ayanokouji's inductive reasoning on display in Y1V4 during the zodiac exam and his ability to solve the pattern so easily, again in Y2V3 in the UIE he is able to find a pattern which can predict task locations/objectives from just the first few days of tasks. For those unfamiliar with this part of the LN, it is an exam similar to the island exam from the anime but on a much larger scale involving all 3 grades. Students were given zones on the island they needed to travel to daily to earn points and tasks which popped up which they could participate in to also earn points. Based on where tasks had been appearing, Koji was able to induce the "rules" which determine how they appeared and was able to predict exactly when/where a specific task would appear.
From this he would analyze the spike in HA deaths and find information on victims. It wouldn't take long for him to realize that photos of all the victims were available at the times of their death and by realizing that Kira needs a victim's face to kill this will only lead him to consider if there are other requirements for Kira to kill.

2. Next is the area and times of death. Recall that Light was killing in between the hours of going to school and only began killing every hour on the hour once L suspected a student. This is a large hint for Ayanokouji to narrow down the number of people he suspects as Kira. Also for finding the area Kira is operating in it's highly likely he does this in a similar way to L, by connecting the first heart attack victim who was a more minor victim, to Kira and identifying he is operating from Kanto.

3. Next I don't see Ayanokouji using a trap like Lind L Taylor here since alerting Kira that someone is hunting him isn't his style. Here he would most likely use his father's influence to test Kira to gain more information. He would get in touch with politicians with connections to the police and make his move since the police are who release info about criminals to the public and it isn't a stretch to assume this is how Kira gets information. Ayanokouji would start by manipulating bits of information about criminals before releasing it (e.g. swapping two criminals photos, names, what their crime was, and which criminals names are released). This would confirm his earlier suspicions when criminals whose names or faces were changed stopped dying. This would lead to Ayanokouji implementing this on a mass scale, him having the police release the information but mix up all the names with random criminal photos so nobody has their correct name with their correct photo. This kind of mindgame from Koji is common with him misdirecting his opponents to consider other avenues instead of the person in the shadows. Light who would have noticed with a few criminals recently they didn't die when their names were written in the DN but now would figure out why when nobody dies. He would realize that the names/faces of criminals have been manipulated so in order to fix this he would use his father's connections to get their real names/faces and kill them as normal. His father wouldn't have information on Ayanokouji since he is working independently for now and just manipulating the police through politicians. When criminals start to die again this would be the final piece of information Ayanokouji needs to narrow down his suspects to a manageable number since he can conclude Kira has access to confidential police information.

4. At this point I can see Ayanokouji doing two things here. He would begin rigorous investigation into the high level people in the police with a student family member, and he can continue manipulating information to narrow down his suspects. First, he would just divide the members of the police who might be related to Kira into groups and for each group he would feed them a single criminal whose information had been falsified from them. For example, he would ensure the group Soichiro Yagami is assigned to has one criminal in the file whose name or face is wrong. All the criminals whose information was changed would also not be broadcast to the public. Since the police information Light has wouldn't tell him this 1 criminal's name is wrong he wouldn't know and would be unable to kill them. This would allow Ayanokouji to further narrow down his suspects and he could do this multiples times in a short period of time to quickly narrow down the most likely suspect be observing which of these falsified criminals die or not. For direct investigation he would look at information from each member of the police who could be the leak and do in depth research into them and their family. This could involve cameras in the house but it would also likely involve them being followed similar to what the FBI agents did.

From here it wouldn't take long to narrow down the focus to Light as the most likely suspect and once Koji has his focus on Light his victory would be inevitable. He would only need to set up a situation where he could prove Light is Kira and it's game over. Once Koji can assess Light himself it wouldn't take long to profile him and profile if he matches Kira. From here, it is also important to note that Light has basically lost by the time he become a major suspect, this is because of how badly Ayanokouji is a counter to him and how much he outscales in every relevant facet of outsmarting. Without the advantage of anonymity, Light is cooked here.

If you disagree with parts of how I anticipate this matchup playing out that's fine, but for the outcome I really don't think this is a close matchup. Ayanokouji's investigation would never be revealed to Light, Light would never even have a chance to get his name.

Ayanokouji wins this without too much difficultly so for these reasons and because of how badly Koji cooks Light in general outsmarting, I'm voting Koji here.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

I believe it should be fine to start counting votes now since there are people debating for both Ayanokoji and Light.

I will be voting Koji via Reggor's reasoning

Haven't seen the entirety of the video, but after seeing the post Rogger linked, as well as the X strategy from the profile and a few other posts online, I believe Koji should win this handily. Koji FRA.

Kiyo FRA

Ayanokouji wins this without too much difficultly so for these reasons and because of how badly Koji cooks Light in general outsmarting, I'm voting Koji here.

Counted x4.
If anyone wants to change their votes go for it.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Reggor also voted on Koji iirc

 

[wwereymy235]

Koji solos tbh.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Koji solos tbh.

Is that a vote

 

[RoggerReggor]

This is definitely plausible, but not the only method Ayanokouji has of determining the existence of the Death Note and tracking Kira. Overall, I will give a broad overview of how I see this matchup going.

1. Ayanokouji's Inductive reasoning (pattern recognition and using sets of data to draw conclusions) is completely insane compare to anything showcased in Death Note. He would be able to draw conclusions about how Kira is killing based just on looking at rising heart attack deaths. We see Ayanokouji's inductive reasoning on display in Y1V4 during the zodiac exam and his ability to solve the pattern so easily, again in Y2V3 in the UIE he is able to find a pattern which can predict task locations/objectives from just the first few days of tasks. For those unfamiliar with this part of the LN, it is an exam similar to the island exam from the anime but on a much larger scale involving all 3 grades. Students were given zones on the island they needed to travel to daily to earn points and tasks which popped up which they could participate in to also earn points. Based on where tasks had been appearing, Koji was able to induce the "rules" which determine how they appeared and was able to predict exactly when/where a specific task would appear.
From this he would analyze the spike in HA deaths and find information on victims. It wouldn't take long for him to realize that photos of all the victims were available at the times of their death and by realizing that Kira needs a victim's face to kill this will only lead him to consider if there are other requirements for Kira to kill.

2. Next is the area and times of death. Recall that Light was killing in between the hours of going to school and only began killing every hour on the hour once L suspected a student. This is a large hint for Ayanokouji to narrow down the number of people he suspects as Kira. Also for finding the area Kira is operating in it's highly likely he does this in a similar way to L, by connecting the first heart attack victim who was a more minor victim, to Kira and identifying he is operating from Kanto.

3. Next I don't see Ayanokouji using a trap like Lind L Taylor here since alerting Kira that someone is hunting him isn't his style. Here he would most likely use his father's influence to test Kira to gain more information. He would get in touch with politicians with connections to the police and make his move since the police are who release info about criminals to the public and it isn't a stretch to assume this is how Kira gets information. Ayanokouji would start by manipulating bits of information about criminals before releasing it (e.g. swapping two criminals photos, names, what their crime was, and which criminals names are released). This would confirm his earlier suspicions when criminals whose names or faces were changed stopped dying. This would lead to Ayanokouji implementing this on a mass scale, him having the police release the information but mix up all the names with random criminal photos so nobody has their correct name with their correct photo. This kind of mindgame from Koji is common with him misdirecting his opponents to consider other avenues instead of the person in the shadows. Light who would have noticed with a few criminals recently they didn't die when their names were written in the DN but now would figure out why when nobody dies. He would realize that the names/faces of criminals have been manipulated so in order to fix this he would use his father's connections to get their real names/faces and kill them as normal. His father wouldn't have information on Ayanokouji since he is working independently for now and just manipulating the police through politicians. When criminals start to die again this would be the final piece of information Ayanokouji needs to narrow down his suspects to a manageable number since he can conclude Kira has access to confidential police information.

4. At this point I can see Ayanokouji doing two things here. He would begin rigorous investigation into the high level people in the police with a student family member, and he can continue manipulating information to narrow down his suspects. First, he would just divide the members of the police who might be related to Kira into groups and for each group he would feed them a single criminal whose information had been falsified from them. For example, he would ensure the group Soichiro Yagami is assigned to has one criminal in the file whose name or face is wrong. All the criminals whose information was changed would also not be broadcast to the public. Since the police information Light has wouldn't tell him this 1 criminal's name is wrong he wouldn't know and would be unable to kill them. This would allow Ayanokouji to further narrow down his suspects and he could do this multiples times in a short period of time to quickly narrow down the most likely suspect be observing which of these falsified criminals die or not. For direct investigation he would look at information from each member of the police who could be the leak and do in depth research into them and their family. This could involve cameras in the house but it would also likely involve them being followed similar to what the FBI agents did.

From here it wouldn't take long to narrow down the focus to Light as the most likely suspect and once Koji has his focus on Light his victory would be inevitable. He would only need to set up a situation where he could prove Light is Kira and it's game over. Once Koji can assess Light himself it wouldn't take long to profile him and profile if he matches Kira. From here, it is also important to note that Light has basically lost by the time he become a major suspect, this is because of how badly Ayanokouji is a counter to him and how much he outscales in every relevant facet of outsmarting. Without the advantage of anonymity, Light is cooked here.

If you disagree with parts of how I anticipate this matchup playing out that's fine, but for the outcome I really don't think this is a close matchup. Ayanokouji's investigation would never be revealed to Light, Light would never even have a chance to get his name.

Ayanokouji wins this without too much difficultly so for these reasons and because of how badly Koji cooks Light in general outsmarting, I'm voting Koji here.

TheHuntsman1001 has entered his hunting grounds.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Reggor also voted on Koji iirc

Yes, and FRA.