The necessity of Neutral/Opponents on a Verse page?

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

Option 2 or Option 3 works for me.

 

[Antvasima]

Just a note that I think that the only way to handle this project withouth crippling our abilities to find and summon enough staff to content revision threads is to move the listed members in our knowledgeable members list page to "Knowledgeable Members" sections in the corresponding verse pages, while simultaneously moving the previously listed members in "Supporters", "Neutral", and "Opponents" sections to new "Somewhat Knowledgeable Members" sections.

If a member ends up redundantly being listed in both a "Knowledgeable Members" and "Somewhat Knowledgeable Members" section, the second one should be removed, and if our content moderators notice that members haven't been active in our forum for a year or more, their listed usernames should be removed completely from these lists.

We can then start a double-highlighted discussion thread here in this forum in which our members are encouraged to modify which sections that they are listed in in our many verse pages.

 

[Jinx666]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Just a note that I think that the only way to handle this project withouth crippling our abilities to find and summon enough staff to content revision threads is to move the listed members in our knowledgeable members list page to "Knowledgeable Members" sections in the corresponding verse pages, while simultaneously moving the previously listed members in "Supporters", "Neutral", and "Opponents" sections to new "Somewhat Knowledgeable Members" sections.

If a member ends up redundantly being listed in both a "Knowledgeable Members" and "Somewhat Knowledgeable Members" section, the second one should be removed, and if our content moderators notice that members haven't been active in our forum for a year or more, their listed usernames should be removed completely from these lists.

We can then start a double-highlighted discussion thread here in this forum in which our members are encouraged to modify which sections that they are listed in in our many verse pages.

I am still perfectly fine with if we apply this project in the above-mentioned manner.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Bump

There are 1600 pages of verses. I believe this project can be completed in 5-10 minutes or less.

Is everyone okay with converting the sections labeled "Supporters," "Neutral," and "Opponents" to "Somewhat Knowledgeable Members"?

@KLOL506, @Mr._Bambu, @LordTracer, @Antvasima, @Damage3245, @DontTalkDT, @DarkDragonMedeus

I have notified all staff members who participated in and discussed this thread.

The vote tally can be found here.

 

[LordTracer]

Yeah, I’m still fine with changing it to a Knowledgeable Members section.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't think we should include "Somewhat" in the title, if that's your intention.

I stand by my vote, if you're seeking confirmation, and suspect we can go ahead and implement this. If you're using a bot for this, you have my support to begin whenever you like.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I don't think we should include "Somewhat" in the title, if that's your intention.

Ya, I have the same viewpoint as well.

 

[Antvasima]

Bump

There are 1600 pages of verses. I believe this project can be completed in 5-10 minutes or less.

Is everyone okay with converting the sections labeled "Supporters," "Neutral," and "Opponents" to "Somewhat Knowledgeable Members"?

@KLOL506, @Mr._Bambu, @LordTracer, @Antvasima, @Damage3245, @DontTalkDT, @DarkDragonMedeus

I have notified all staff members who participated in and discussed this thread.

The vote tally can be found here.

This seems very acceptable to me. Thanks a lot for helping out.

I really need to remove myself from many of those lists though.

 

[Antvasima]

I don't think we should include "Somewhat" in the title, if that's your intention.

I stand by my vote, if you're seeking confirmation, and suspect we can go ahead and implement this. If you're using a bot for this, you have my support to begin whenever you like.

"Somewhat" definitely needs to be included. We can create "Knowledgeable Members" sections afterwards by copy-pasting from the following page, and, if members are listed twice, we can remove them from the corresponding "Somewhat Knowledgeable Members" lists.

Knowledgeable Members List (Verses)

This page is intended to be a list in alphabetical order of every verse page in this wiki, and the members who think that they are highly knowledgeable regarding them. Members who consider themselves as "experts" should have a significant amount of knowledge regarding a franchise, and are...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Bobsican]

"Somewhat" may be too informal, "Relatively" may be used instead if the intent is to not appear as requiring only those extremely into each respective verse.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that "Relatively" might also work.

 

[LordTracer]

I’m with Bambu on this, it should just be “Knowledgeable Members”.

 

[Antvasima]

No, definitely not. The people who have listed themselves there are mostly not truly knowledgeable. They just like or dislike a certain verse. Meaning they have some limited knowledge of it, but not in-depth.

See here for an in my view much better structured solution:

"Somewhat" definitely needs to be included. We can create "Knowledgeable Members" sections afterwards by copy-pasting from the following page, and, if members are listed twice, we can remove them from the corresponding "Somewhat Knowledgeable Members" lists.

Knowledgeable Members List (Verses)

This page is intended to be a list in alphabetical order of every verse page in this wiki, and the members who think that they are highly knowledgeable regarding them. Members who consider themselves as "experts" should have a significant amount of knowledge regarding a franchise, and are...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[LordTracer]

The people who have listed themselves there are mostly not truly knowledgeable. They just like or dislike a certain verse. Meaning they have some limited knowledge of it, but not in-depth.

Then they simply need to be removed. And liking or disliking a verse doesn’t automatically mean they have knowledge about the verse that’d be helpful for revisions or indexing.

And having separate “Somewhat Knowledgeable” and “Knowledgeable“ lists would be supremely redundant.

 

[Antvasima]

No, speaking as somebody who has systematically tried to organise the progression and resolution of content revision threads in the past, it is very useful to primarily check if it is possible to summon the (genuinely) knowledgeable members sections, and then falling back on the people who are simply familiar with each verse if that option is not available.

My solution would make this significantly easier to overview during our work processes, whereas your solution would significantly cripple our ability to efficiently organise our work by receiving feedback and evaluations when required, so I am afraid that I am not going to allow it. My apologies.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, only bureaucrats and administrators have votes in these types of extremely important discussion threads that significantly affect our entire wiki.

 

[LordTracer]

My solution would make this significantly easier to overview during our work processes, whereas your solution would significantly cripple our ability to efficiently organise our work by receiving feedback and evaluations when required, so I am afraid that I am not going to allow it. My apologies.

It’s not even my solution, I was just agreeing with what Bambu said before…

 

[ImmortalDread]

Alright, I would like to denote something. Anyone can ignore this if you don't want to read any technical documentation.

So after some research, there are two types of formatting.

Header​	Tabbers​
==Supporters/Opponents/Neutral== ===Supporters=== *User *User ===Opponents=== *User *User ===Neutral=== *User *User​	<tabber> |-|Supporters/Opponents/Neutral= ===Supporters=== *User *User ===Opponents=== *User *User ===Neutral=== *User *User </tabbers>​

Basically, the formatting of the term we are going to replace is inconsistent. However, I am able to create more Regex for more than one purpose, so I finally could test it here:

This is one without any tabbers:

 

[GarrixianXD]

To summarize: I am fully capable of handling it without any issues to 1600 pages in less of two minutes.

How can you do it that fast?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I suppose that "Relatively" might also work.

Okay, if you're dead set against "Knowledgeable Members", I want something short and decently formal. We may have to avoid the notion of "Knowledgeable Members" altogether, if this is no longer about volunteering themselves as knowledgeable.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I still think removing the "Supporters/Neutral/Opponents" thing isn't necessary for reasons above, and I already voiced how some of the verses I added myself as a supporter and/or opponent isn't something I consider myself that knowledgeable on. But as I already said, if I am outvoted, so be it.

 

[Propellus]

I still think removing the "Supporters/Neutral/Opponents" thing isn't necessary for reasons above, and I already voiced how some of the verses I added myself as a supporter and/or opponent isn't something I consider myself that knowledgeable on. But as I already said, if I am outvoted, so be it.

My point still stands than before, as it's rather a pointless change

 

[Antvasima]

I still think removing the "Supporters/Neutral/Opponents" thing isn't necessary for reasons above, and I already voiced how some of the verses I added myself as a supporter and/or opponent isn't something I consider myself that knowledgeable on. But as I already said, if I am outvoted, so be it.

Well, I do think that it seems more practical to, instead of replacing those sections, initially simply add "Knowledgeable Members" sections right above them, and also move all of the information from the corresponding sections in the following page to these sections for easier overviews, after which we can delete it for being redundant.

Knowledgeable Members List (Verses)

This page is intended to be a list in alphabetical order of every verse page in this wiki, and the members who think that they are highly knowledgeable regarding them. Members who consider themselves as "experts" should have a significant amount of knowledge regarding a franchise, and are...

vsbattles.fandom.com

After we have waited for around two years or so to let our members catch up with adding their usernames to these sections instead, we might be able to remove the "Supporters/Opponents/Neutral" sections.

 

[ImmortalDread]

@Antvasima, the process you are discussing seems to be contesting based on my current understanding. I can add a new section to each verse page and relocate the list from the previous “SON” section to the new one. However, I doubt (or I will verify its feasibility) whether it's possible to export a list from one page to another 1600 pages. Even if this is achievable, and I find a solution, I am certain that I won't be able to identify inactive or active users, as this would necessitate its own script and might take some time.

SON = Supporters/Opponents/Neutral.

 

[Antvasima]

I meant that the specific section in the Knowledgeable Members page that I linked to above for, for example, One Piece should be copied to a new "Knowledgeable Members" section our One Piece verse page, and so onwards.

I am not set in my values regarding whether or not we should also initially rename the Supporters/Opponents/Neutral sections to "Relatively Knowledgeable Members" sections, located right below the "Knowledgeable Members" sections, or if we should wait with this for a while, so sensible staff input would be very appreciated.

 

[ImmortalDread]

So basically, exporting the sections from this page to its each respective verse?

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, and placing the new "Knowledgeable Members" sections right above the "Supporters/Opponents/Neutral" sections.

We can gradually decide when and how we should rename the "Supporters/Opponents/Neutral" sections in the meantime.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Understood.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

 

[Lonkitt]

So we’re just changing it to “Knowledgeable Members” and nothing more, correct?

 

[KLOL506]

So we’re just changing it to “Knowledgeable Members” and nothing more, correct?

I also thought that was the plan at first. But apparently Ant thinks we'll be able to do it in two years time.

I still stand by my vote to remove the S/O/N section and replace it with the Knowledgeable Members section.

 

[Bobsican]

In addition to that, users that know about a verse but aren't willing to contribute, especially those that only "tangentially" know a series would be removed, as the main reason there's a name change is because of the misconceptions it has made, namely users just listing themselves on verse pages out of merely sharing what they think of a verse, without being willing to help in CRTs or in some cases only merely being interested, having disinterest or not wanting to get into a verse (without really knowning much of note for our purposes), cases like Barney and Redo of Healer are blatant victims of this for the most part.

 

[Antvasima]

In addition to that, users that know about a verse but aren't willing to contribute, especially those that only "tangentially" know a series would be removed, as the main reason there's a name change is because of the misconceptions it has made, namely users just listing themselves on verse pages out of merely sharing what they think of a verse, without being willing to help in CRTs or in some cases only merely being interested, having disinterest or not wanting to get into a verse (without really knowning much of note for our purposes), cases like Barney and Redo of Healer are blatant victims of this for the most part.

Yes, agreed, and I am guilty of this myself, but there are mixed cases in that regard. A part of the listed members are knowledgeable and a part of them are not, and we do need to know which members we should call for regarding different content revision threads, so maybe we can start by moving all of the contents of the following page to new "Knowledgeable Members" sections in the respective pages for the verses within it?

Knowledgeable Members List (Verses)

This page is intended to be a list in alphabetical order of every verse page in this wiki, and the members who think that they are highly knowledgeable regarding them. Members who consider themselves as "experts" should have a significant amount of knowledge regarding a franchise, and are...

vsbattles.fandom.com

For the time being we can also rename all Supporters/Opponents/Neutral sections to "Somewhat Knowledgeable Members" and then create a highlighted thread regarding that the members who do not truly know a lot about each verse in question should remove themselves from these sections.

After some time has passed, we might be able to remove those sections entirely and only have "Knowledgeable Members" sections.

 

[Bobsican]

I recall it was agreed on previously for the new name to be "Knowledgeable Members", given that "somewhat" is quite informal, and Mr. Bambu has expressed he'd want something short and fairly formal. Maybe the rename could also include a link to this part of the Standard Format for Verse Pages (updating the name of the section beforehand of that page, of course) to make it evidently clear its intent and ensure it's not misused as easily again.

In any case, I agree with that way of handling it.

 

[Dereck03]

For the time being we can also rename all Supporters/Opponents/Neutral sections to "Somewhat Knowledgeable Members" and then create a highlighted thread regarding that the members who do not truly know a lot about each verse in question should remove themselves from these sections.

Hmmm, I think the use of "Somewhat" feels a bit out of place or doesn't feel professional, perhaps calling it simply Knowledgeable Members is fine as by default only members who actively participate or have a general knowledge of the verses should be listed, although I agree that those who don't participate at all despite being listed should be removed.

And on a different note, I recently recreated the verse page of the verse I am a supporter of and the sandbox seemed to implement "Knowledgeable Members" instead of Suppoters/Neutral/Opponents, should I revert it until this change is effective or leave it as such?

 

[Antvasima]

I recall it was agreed on previously for the new name to be "Knowledgeable Members", given that "somewhat" is quite informal, and Mr. Bambu has expressed he'd want something short and fairly formal. Maybe the rename could also include a link to this part of the Standard Format for Verse Pages (updating the name of the section beforehand of that page, of course) to make it evidently clear its intent and ensure it's not misused as easily again.

In any case, I agree with that way of handling it.

There should be a Knowledgeable Members section in each verse page, but the contents in them should be moved from here:

Knowledgeable Members List (Verses)

This page is intended to be a list in alphabetical order of every verse page in this wiki, and the members who think that they are highly knowledgeable regarding them. Members who consider themselves as "experts" should have a significant amount of knowledge regarding a franchise, and are...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Bobsican]

Would we just insert any user not already in the respective verse page as just a supporter for now? If so, I could handle this across the next week.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmmm, I think the use of "Somewhat" feels a bit out of place or doesn't feel professional, perhaps calling it simply Knowledgeable Members is fine as by default only members who actively participate or have a general knowledge of the verses should be listed, although I agree that those who don't participate at all despite being listed should be removed.

Again, we will have "Knowledgeable Members" sections. I just don't want us to mix genuinely knowledgeable members with ones who have simply heard of a verse and dislike it on principle, for example.

And on a different note, I recently recreated the verse page of the verse I am a supporter of and the sandbox seemed to implement "Knowledgeable Members" instead of Suppoters/Neutral/Opponents, should I revert it until this change is effective or leave it as such?

It depends on if that list of members originates from the following page or a Supporters/Opponents/Neutral section.

Knowledgeable Members List (Verses)

This page is intended to be a list in alphabetical order of every verse page in this wiki, and the members who think that they are highly knowledgeable regarding them. Members who consider themselves as "experts" should have a significant amount of knowledge regarding a franchise, and are...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Antvasima]

Would we just insert any user not already in the respective verse page as just a supporter for now? If so, I could handle this across the next week.

No. I think we should handle this in the manner I described above in order to do this carefully without mixing together different types of members.