Legitimacy of Matches

[Antvasima]

I think people usually agree with an argument as a whole, i.e. due to all reasons someone brought up together. And everyone having to copy the whole argumentation just seems... redundant.
I guess what we could do is to require people to at least say whose reasoning they agree with. Or we just keep it as it is.

Okay. That seems reasonable to me. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Arkenis]

Just for more example, Ubel vs Gojo.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Just for more example, Ubel vs Gojo.

but there's a debate going tho

 

[Arkenis]

but there's a debate going tho

Yeah not the point. Six FRAs in two hours at the start before anyone explained Ubel's abilities or anyone explained Gojo's. AKA a premature cascade of votes and neither side was fleshed out.

• Generally, FRAs should not be within the first page as this can create a premature cascade of votes without both sides being fleshed out. Though, when a match is decided within the first page, grace applies and the first page rule can be ignored.

 

[Antvasima]

Just for more example, Ubel vs Gojo.

Yeah not the point. Six FRAs in two hours at the start before anyone explained Ubel's abilities or anyone explained Gojo's. AKA a premature cascade of votes and neither side was fleshed out.

@DontTalkDT

What do you think?

 

[DontTalkDT]

a) I don't think it's healthy, as lots of debates with less popular characters never go anywhere at all as it is. Making the entry barrier higher just increases the amount of things that don't get concluded.

b) If people FRA then at least if you get the FRA'd poster to drop that argument the votes are invalidated. If people just copy and paste arguments you don't even get that. You would need to convince all separately, which means either you get them to actually engage, in which case there is no problem to begin with, or you don't, in which case you gained nothing other than adding a barrier to the democratic process.

 

[Arkenis]

I don't think it's healthy, as lots of debates with less popular characters never go anywhere at all as it is. Making the entry barrier higher just increases the amount of things that don't get concluded.

That happens regardless of this and is simply a consequence of them being less popular, it shouldn't be a reason to not accept this.

If people FRA then at least if you get the FRA'd poster to drop that argument the votes are invalidated. If people just copy and paste arguments you don't even get that. You would need to convince all separately, which means either you get them to actually engage, in which case there is no problem to begin with, or you don't, in which case you gained nothing other than adding a barrier to the democratic process.

Most people who FRA are biased or ignorant of the other side, so no you aren't regularly gonna get them to drop it. And they haven't actually argued anything, I'm talking about FRA when there is nothing to FRA because the sides haven't even engaged yet. Is it seriously that unrealistic for people to not be allowed to FRA within the page and just engage first with both sides?

 

[Agnaa]

Just for more example, Ubel vs Gojo.

I think those early votes should already be treated as illegitimate.

Quite a few of them seem like jokes. But more importantly, literally no reasoning was provided. Our Versus Thread Rules already disallow that sort of thing:

Please state valid reasons for why a battle should go a certain way when posting in a versus thread. Meaning, don't simply say that a certain character wins and leave it at that. It makes your answer look unmotivated and makes it harder to decide the outcome.

The winner will be determined by the side having better constructive arguments, rather than one-word/one-sentence votes, which will be disregarded. However, one-word/one-sentence votes agreeing with another member's reasoning will be accepted as valid votes.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, given what Agnaa just said right above, this revision seems to likely be redundant.

Should we close this thread?

 

[Arkenis]

Well, given what Agnaa just said right above, this revision seems to likely be redundant.

Should we close this thread?

While those do cover one aspect, I still think the idea that votes should not be within the first page. I've said my reasons before but one last time; implementing this stops the meme FRA, allows both sides to discuss win cons and counters before votes have been given.