The Legendary Devil Hunter Vs Local deadweght literally too angry to let his father die

[DarkGrath]

Why isn't Sanctus Diabolica upgraded? I mean they change his text for his Attack potency, etc.

Because his potentially upgradable key, the Saviour, was discussed and concluded to not scale to the other 3-A characters. There has been some discussion over the Saviour potentially having a 4-A feat, however that's to be left for another CRT. Things have already been pretty crazy over the 3-A upgrade, I'm planning on making a seperate CRT discussing that feat (and a couple others) in maybe a day or two when things have calmed down.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Well, okay then. Then my question turns into how big of a gap there is between SDT and DT. Would Dante, logically, have been using the Hearts passively in DMC5? If so, we can scale DT Nero as above X10 DT Dante. If not, the issue becomes the scaling between DT and SDT multipliers.

By 'abosrbed' would that mean Dante was actually using the hearts the entire time in DMC5? If so, the hearts, outside of Chrono Heart, don't have much impact.

He needs to "equip" them, so no that he didn't used those Hearts in 5, if he used, it would Slow down time, add Fire/Electricity/Ice elements to Rebellion, etc

If it one shots everything but bosses then I would definitely argue that Nero, Vergil and Urizen would be capable of surviving it. You could always argue gameplay mechanics of the bosses being too easy if it one-shot them but if that were the case then Dante would have one shot Urizen. Not sure how IC it would be for him to try and one shot Vergil with it.

Yeah, I agree, it's unclear if this would insta-kill them, but he main part is the gravitational orbs stopping their movements (which opens Nero's guard completely) and even in them it gives a lot of damage in their boss fights, it would be extremely useful

Well, this goes back to the argument over the Devil Breakers. Nero can use Punch Line over and over again but it will break if Nero gets hit while using it and it will eventually end.

I think if Ragtime is useless in this fight that we should reasonably switch it out for Punch Line. There is no hard number or types of Breakers that Nero would use so I think it should be fine to flexibly customise his Devil Breakers if some are just useless.

Still, regardless. Nero can at least keep the summoned swords at bay. Nero would has two things to aid him in-regards to Summoned Sword spam: 1. Nero's own Summoned Sword spam in DT (which you say should be infinite by lore) 2. Nero's Devil Bringer should be capable of blocking, deflecting and potentially catching the swords. They act as additional limbs that can augment his attacks so I don't see why they wouldn't be capable of backing Nero up with Dante's spam.

I agree

One hax that he have since DMC3 that I forgot is the Doppelganger, which creates a clone of himself to aid him in battle, just like Vergil

 

[Lightning_XXI]

So Cryo, do you have a vote ?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Well, my decision is based on three factors.

• Does Dante actually have these power-ups canonically? Or are they mostly for gameplay purposes? From what I've read on the wiki it's never explained where Dante, Lucia and Trish got the amulet that they use the Hearts with

• Why do the Mundus Generals resist Time manipulation? Is there any particular lore that explains it?

• Can SDT Dante use his Time Bangle or Chrono Heart? Can he use his Styles?

Depending on how you answer these questions I will vote for one of them or continue arguing over the underdog. If Dante can use his Time hax in SDT, I'd be inclined to claim this as a stomp.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

The Hearts are canon, they are mentioned in Lore

But Trish doesn't have them in canon because she's just a guest character, they are there for gameplay purposes in her case

They resist Time Manipulation because in DMC1 we have the Bangle of Time, and it doesn't work against any of Mundus generals, it stops everything around Dante, the exception are the generals who stay intact

The only time manipulation that Dante might be unable to use while in SDT is Bangle of Time, and even then it's very unclear, and he can use in DT and then transform into SDT while time still stopped

But Quicksilver, Chrono Heart and SDT own time slow are okay

 

[CryoTheMayo]

The Hearts are canon, they are mentioned in Lore

Okay. Would they effect the abilities of SDT?

They resist Time Manipulation because in DMC1 we have the Bangle of Time, and it doesn't work against any of Mundus generals, it stops everything around Dante, the exception are the generals who stay intact

This doesn't answer my question. Why doesn't the Bangle of Time work on the Mundus generals?

The only time manipulation that Dante might be unable to use while in SDT is Bangle of Time, and even then it's very unclear, and he can use in DT and then transform into SDT while time still stopped

If Bangle of Time works on Nero then this is a gross curbstomp. You are putting a time stopper with equivalent power against someone who is unable to use time stop.

But Quicksilver, Chrono Heart and SDT own time slow are okay

I don't have any reason to think Chrono Heart or SDT's time slow would be especially troubling for Nero. I'm pretty sure SDT's time slow only procs during specific attacks and Chrono Heart only occurs when attacking.

Quicksilver is a major issue though. If it was DT Dante using Quicksilver I don't think it would put Nero down but if SDT Dante can use it then it's the same argument as SDT Dante using Time Stop. It's a gross curbstomp.

 

[Twellas]

How can anyone even argue that Vergil and Dante being tired is irrelevant? And by tired i mean TIRED, Dante and Vergil were one hit away from ending the fight, them posing and going SDT after saying "it's time we end this" proves it, which means that the Vergil Nero fought was almost dead and even then Vergil fought him in base. Saying that they aren't weakened by being tired contraddicts what we have been shown in the verse, we would need proof that it is not the case anymore to reliably say that they are beyond that limitation. My vote is for Dante by being far more experienced, having better hax and being logically stronger

You say Dante is logically stronger but then say that we need proof that Dante and Vergil have superior stamina compared to when they were decades younger and less experienced? What are you scaling this off? Nero beating up a weakened SDT Vergil?

Being physically stronger has nothing to do with surpassing a limitation that is not linked to strength nor experience, also Vergil fought nero in base, we don't see him go SDT in any cutscene and with a clever combo-game you can prevent him from going sdt in the bossfight, so Vergil didn't canonically didn't do it. Scaling Nero to a fully powered Dante because he beat a worn-out, near death, base Vergil is headcanon

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Ah, yes. If you go out of your way with specific combos you can prevent Vergil from SDT. I guess that voids Nero blasting to SDT Dante and Vergil or the fact that you just said you need to go out of your way to prevent SDT,

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

"Being physically stronger has nothing to do with surpassing a limitation that is not linked to strength or experience."

Ummm... what? How could you actually tell me in any serious tone that exertion of physical ability is not related to improved Stamina? You do know you would require an even bigger assumption to somehow think Dante and Vergil are capable of growing stronger, Dante especially just by getting constantly better again and again, yet somehow their stamina would remain the same? They improve but let's just assume thiiiisss specific thing remains the same. A physical trait that actually improves as the body gets used to tons of exercising.

I am confused.

 

[Twellas]

No, getting physically stronger is not in any way linked to stamina, which is why even in the real world we have different excercises for strength and stamina, if that wasn't the case every single 100m runner would be a great marathon runner, but that's obviously not the case, also this is all irrelevant, the deal here is not to determine if they were tired, because they undeniably were, the issue here is to determine if they are weakened by being tired, which has NOTHING to do with stamina and was established to be the case in DMC3 and we have no reason to believe the situation has changed, especially considering the fact that Nero's bossfight with Vergil is SIGNIFICANTLY easier, with Vergil being way slower and weaker in terms of damage, i mean, he even collapses at some points letting you get some buster attacks, which never happens in Dante's run

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Forgetting that Vergil is also super boosted in the fight, but sure Vergil was just dealing less damage.

And partaking of extensive physical activity is very much related to Stamina, which is exactly what Dante has been doing since DCM3. As for him moving slower, I really don't remember that. And as for him falling down to get Buster attacks, is that the same for the other enemies? Do enemies on Dante's run never collapse while they do for Nero?

 

[DarkGrath]

Forgetting that Vergil is also super boosted in the fight, but sure Vergil was just dealing less damage.
And partaking of extensive physical activity is very much related to Stamina, which is exactly what Dante has been doing since DCM3. As for him moving slower, I really don't remember that. And as for him falling down to get Buster attacks, is that the same for the other enemies? Do enemies on Dante's run never collapse while they do for Nero?

On Dante's run, enemies collapse and stagger in exactly the same ways as they do in Nero's run, even though only Nero can utilise that mechanic to use a buster. It's pretty clear that Vergil collapsing at several points in the fight when fighting Nero but not Dante means that he is getting exhausted.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

If you were to play Devil's Advocate however, wouldn't it also be plausible that Nero is simply overpowering Vergil and causing him to stagger?

 

[DarkGrath]

If you were to play Devil's Advocate however, wouldn't it also be plausible that Nero is simply overpowering Vergil and causing him to stagger?

The only real evidence of that being the case would be through quite a blatant circular reasoning argument, which is a massive fallacy. You'd be arguing that Nero could overpower and stagger Vergil because Nero is stronger than Vergil, and you'd also be arguing that Nero is stronger than Vergil because he could overpower and stagger Vergil. Pretty much a textbook circular reasoning argument.

Now, I can't say that it is impossible that Nero just staggered Vergil because he is stronger. That would also be a fallacy, coming from me instead. However, all things considered, given that it is shown throughout the series that stamina is a very big factor when it comes to strength (note situations such as DMC3 Dante's regen completely failing against Vergil), the fact that there is otherwise no good proof of Nero being stronger than Vergil, and that Vergil had just been battling Dante (who is established to be his equal) for a long stretch of time, Occam's Razor would dictate that Vergil was exhausted from his prior battle with Dante and it was not Nero simply overpowering him.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

The only real evidence of that being the case would be through quite a blatant circular reasoning argument, which is a massive fallacy. You'd be arguing that Nero could overpower and stagger Vergil because Nero is stronger than Vergil, and you'd also be arguing that Nero is stronger than Vergil because he could overpower and stagger Vergil. Pretty much a textbook circular reasoning argument.

How...is that a circular argument? I'm pretty sure I didn't mention Nero being more powerful, just that he would have been overpowering Vergil in that instance. I agree Vergil was weakened from fighting Dante but I disagree with the notion that Vergil was nearly as weakened as some people tend to claim.

Can you give me some examples of stamina failing outside of DMC3? I've only heard of anything like it occurring there and, as I've argued, they were both teenagers who likely would have grown far more efficient and would have much better stamina now. I also don't think my question over the timeframe of their fight in DMC3 was ever answered in this thread.

To add further, I may be wrong but...I'm pretty sure Vergil only gets staggered when...Nero hits him hard enough. So Nero was directly the cause of the effect of Vergil being staggered. Your only real argument, in that case, is that Vergil was being staggered due to being exhausted, which has basis in DMC3 but, from what I have seen, nowhere else.

 

[Maxnumb231]

The only real evidence of that being the case would be through quite a blatant circular reasoning argument, which is a massive fallacy. You'd be arguing that Nero could overpower and stagger Vergil because Nero is stronger than Vergil, and you'd also be arguing that Nero is stronger than Vergil because he could overpower and stagger Vergil. Pretty much a textbook circular reasoning argument.

How...is that a circular argument? I'm pretty sure I didn't mention Nero being more powerful, just that he would have been overpowering Vergil in that instance. I agree Vergil was weakened from fighting Dante but I disagree with the notion that Vergil was nearly as weakened as some people tend to claim.

Can you give me some examples of stamina failing outside of DMC3? I've only heard of anything like it occurring there and, as I've argued, they were both teenagers who likely would have grown far more efficient and would have much better stamina now. I also don't think my question over the timeframe of their fight in DMC3 was ever answered in this thread.

To add further, I may be wrong but...I'm pretty sure Vergil only gets staggered when...Nero hits him hard enough. So Nero was directly the cause of the effect of Vergil being staggered. Your only real argument, in that case, is that Vergil was being staggered due to being exhausted, which has basis in DMC3 but, from what I have seen, nowhere else.

Ignorance fallacy. How does them being a teenagers have to do with rebutting against someonething that iz heavily implied? Nero fought weakened vergil and dante and this is sctual facts coming right out of the series itself.

Idk how you can dispute something that is heavily implied by the game and putting headcanon and say "they were young".

 

[Maxnumb231]

Vergil and dante fought for 23 minutues straight. This is shown sn example of arkham got in their fight and stomped them completely despite the fact that Vergil at his full power can defeat sealed mundus.

Using scaling from an 18 year old Vergil and Dante is foolishness. Their mastery over their abilities and overall endurance would have grown a great deal after decades of experience. Vergil was defeated by Mundus, for example, but DMC2 Dante can stomp Void Mundus in his base form. Such an absurd gap indicates the growth that the twins went through over the decades since the Arkham debacle.

Overall, using that as an indication of their current stamina is nonsensical.

First of all. They have never shown to train their endurance, we only get this implication dante gets stronger, increase in power=/= increase in endurance. Its an appeal to ignorance to say he has better endurance after all. Dante has never fought someone equally and getting tired from fighting. The only time was against mundus and vergil. So this is not a rebuttal and theres many headcanons in your argument that has never been implied throughout DMC.

Do u remember vergil saying to dante that he needs to get stronger after his fight with urizen? That just literally debunk your argument that dante was still at full power or vergil.

 

[Dienomite22]

They resist Time Manipulation because in DMC1 we have the Bangle of Time, and it doesn't work against any of Mundus generals, it stops everything around Dante, the exception are the generals who stay intact

This doesn't answer my question. Why doesn't the Bangle of Time work on the Mundus generals?

To answer this, Nelo Angelo only became immune to the Bangle of Time in 3rd fight with Dante and Mundus general's are unaffected by Bangle of Time which means Mundus provided power to Nelo to make him immune to the affects of the Bangle of Time or Nelo Angelo powering up simply can overide the Bangle of Time's effects but the 1st option is more likely.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

The Stamina-related power also appears in DMC1, Mundus tells Dante that he was completely weakened after their fight

And Mundus was also weakened

 

[CryoTheMayo]

The Stamina-related power also appears in DMC1, Mundus tells Dante that he was completely weakened after their fight
And Mundus was also weakened

Was this Sparda Dante vs Mundus? How long did the fight take?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Well,Vergil isn't immune to Time Manipulation in DMCV so either this is an oversight in the game itself or Vergil doesn't have or use Mundus' power anymore. If this is the case, then why would Dante be immune to time manipulation? Did he ever even have resistance to time manipulation? If not, I'm forced to assume Sparda (and thus Dante) wouldn't be using Mundus' power anymore.

The alternative, which I think is the logic used on the wiki, is that characters scaling to or above the Mundus Generals are simply resistant to time manipulation. That, or, Bangle of Time is a 'weak' time manipulation that doesn't work on powerful demons.

 

[Dienomite22]

Vergil being affected by time manipulation in DMC5 doesn't necessarily mean he isn't immune to normal time manipulation , it is possible within fiction for a person immune or resistant to normal timestop be completely affected by someone elses timestop due to it being stronger or able to override that resistence for whatever reason (think dies irae with Ren Fuji having time manipulation that can affect 1-A beings who naturally should be immune to all forms of time manipulation or better yet, DMC5 bosses being unaffected by Nero's basic Ragtime timeslow but are affected by it's Break Age).Nevertheless, it is fair to assume Vergil lost the power bestowed upon him by Mundus.Don't remember mentioning Dante would be immune to the time manipulation so that's probably what someone else was saying above although he has resistence from it for facing Geryon and he should naturally have it just from scaling seeing as the more powerful the demon the more resistance to time manipulation they have, every strong mid to God tier demon throughout most of the games are naturally resistant to time/stop manipulation or unaffected by it at all and Dante being strong demon himself AND absorbing Sparda would logically make him resistant to time manipulation.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Nah, Killah was claiming that Dante would be resistant to time manipulation but not Nero because Dante absorbed Sparda which was made by Sparda, a Mundus General.

I agree that there are degrees of time manipulation magnitude, which is one of the points I made. I mean, Dante never uses Quicksilver from what I have seen or the Bangle of Time or the Chrono Heart. Wouldn't it make sense that he simply doesn't use them because the opponents worth time manipulation are too strong for it to work?

Dante stomps all over practically every demon except for his family members and antagonists like Urizen (who is technically part of Dante's family so....), Argosax and Mundus. And even then, Dante stomps Mundus and Argosax now and canonically beat Post-Fruit Urizen. So, Dante doesn't have any real reason to use his time manipulation when there is such a huge gap in power.

That's how I view the time resistance. From what I have seen no one has provided genuine reasoning in the story for the Mundus Generals to be resistant to the time manipulation so either this is Mundus hax (which Dante wouldn't have, considering Sparda doesn't serve Mundus anymore and Nero's Ragtime works on Vergil, who was a Mundus General) or it's a result of scaling demonic power above other forms of demonic power being used to manipulate time.

 

[Dienomite22]

DMC1 establishs that Mundus bestows his generals with his powers multiple times as seen with Griffon when he asks to recieve Mundus's power one last time to beat Dante but ultimately was killed by Mundus.This would explain why Dante faces his the bosses repeatedly and why they get stronger with each battle.I personally view that all demons who are comparable or superior to Mundus's generals automatically gain resistance to Time Manipulation, Including Nero.Speaking of Nero I believe his Ragtime should work on Dante.

Dante's abilities and his lack of using them in anything cutscene related is PIS and is just something that couldn't work due to how Itsuno wants to tell the story.Dante not using helpful abilities in cutscenes that would warrant it is just how these type of games work.Think of how Kratos and Bayonetta are used on this site, despite them never using abilities, weapons or hax that would be helpful within their respective stories to trivalize threats, people still use those hax and abilities in vs match-ups as their "win button" ,once again, despite those two never thinking to use those weapons and abilities within their stories.We should treat DMC characters the same.

This is my view of time manipulation scaling in DMC:

Ragtime(break age), SDT's time manipulation, Vergil's JCE Urizen's bubbles > Bangle of Time > Geryon = Ragtime(regular usage) = Quicksilver

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Well, Ragtime is from an Elder Geryon Knight, right? So it should be vastly superior to Quicksilver which is from a Geryon Knight. It seems reasonable to scale the time manipulation abilities, otherwise it becomes questionable why Dante doesn't have or use Bangle of Time over Chrono Heart.

Actually, is the Bangle of Time even canon? From what I've looked up it's completely optional and is unlocked in a secret mission.

 

[Dienomite22]

Oh yeah I guess Ragtime should be on the same level as BoT when it comes to what tier it can bypass.

I don't know if Bangle of Time is canon,but I think it could be, It has a lore description, who and what it can affect was taken into account by the devs, also DMC5 seems to have made secret missions canon because V's multiplayer and CPU appearance in mission 3 is only possible if you do a secret mission, but that could just be for DMC5.Either way, Bayonetta is allowed the Bracelet of Time and that isn't picked up or naturally acquired/made in the game, so I don't think it would matter.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Dante vs Mundus was a long fight, but don't expect that I know how many minutes Again, SDT is just a Super Devil Trigger, and the Hearts can be used when Dante activates his Demonic powers, so no reason to assume that he can't use them in SDT, and no, he wasn't using in 5 because if he used we would see some affects of some Hearts, like Fire, Ice and Lightning coming from Devil Sword Dante

Both Quicksilver are equals, both comes from a Geryon, but one was alone and the other was with a Knight, and yeah, apparently Ragtime works on Dante, excelent point

We can't scale anyone to have Time Manipulation resistance just for being stronger than Mundus, what we know is that Mundus can give powers to someone, but he never REMOVED powers from someone, so basically, Sparda still had the resistance, and by this his sword also have, since is the same powers

Nelo Angelo had that Resistance and actually is fine scale this to normal Vergil, Sparda's example is simple since he was a Mundus General and after that he just lost this tittle, but not his powers. Anyway, while Dante can spam his Time Manipulation, Nero can use only once, since the Devil Breakers will...break, and he doesn't have 8 Ragtimes to fight Dante because here there is no Preparation Time. The bubbles from normal Ragtime are easily dodged by Dante considering that he's faster than Nero since he have A LOT of power ups for his speed, four types of Time Manipulation and the Quick Heart

Bangle of Time is canon like Dieno said, and again and for the last time, Dante can use his other powers, the fact that they don't appear is just a gameplay perspective, just look at any verse, many characters don't use most of their abilities even if they would be useful. Now stop trying to somewhat remove powers for Dante just to a fight with Nero

This discussion is getting completely out of topic and very tedious, can we please vote and end this ?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I'd prefer to ensure that Dante actually wins or stomps before voting.

If Ragtime works on Dante, could Nero just use Ragtime breakage from the start then use Gerbera to kill Dante, or at least severely damage him?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Would be a good combo, but I don't think Nero starts with this, and even if he does, Dante wouldn't be "oh he's using Time Manipulation, I'll let him kill me"

Quick Heart, for example, boosts his speed by 10 times and it's activated with DT / SDT, which is done by thinking. Being 10 faster would already nerf Nero's Time Slow, then add the others types of Time Manipulation that he have, specially the SDT time slow, that works on Vergil, who's more resistant against Time Manipulation than Nero

Again, it's a good combo, but Dante can easily react and answer to this

And yeah, if it hits Dante, would be troublesome, they have Mid Regenerationn but still a damage

 

[CryoTheMayo]

In-summary

AP vs AP DT Dante has 10x to Power and Speed due to hearts but DT Nero can keep up with SDT Dante, so DT Nero is probably still stronger and much faster than X10 DT Dante.

Speed vs Speed DT Nero should be much faster than even X10 DT Dante. DT Nero may be faster than SDT Dante, considering DT Nero could fly to between SDT Dante and SDT Vergil when they are about to clash. You can argue they would be slower due to exhaustion but the gap in speed here seems like it should still mean DT Nero would equate to or above SDT Dante's speed.

Regen vs Rege Nero should have equivalent stamina to DT Dante. DT Dante probably has better Regenerationn due to Healing Heart but it's questionable if SDT Dante would have the hearts, if he did this would be a blatant stomp. Nero should have a considerable advantage over SDT Dante in stamina but DT Dante has more Regenerationn than DT Nero.

Durability vs Durability DT Nero should have vastly superior durability to DT Dante but SDT Dante has heavily enhanced durability (may just be gameplay design but nothing contradicts it)

So in terms of stats it seems to go

AP - Likely SDT Dante

Speed - DT Nero

Regenerationn - DT Dante, DT Nero if Dante goes SDT

Durability - SDT Dante

Abilities/Hax

Summoned Sword - Equal. Nero can counter all of Dante's summoned swords with his own summoned swords, as well as his Devil Bringer. Dante seems to have superior skill/use out of his Summoned Swords however.

Time Manipulation - Based on what I have seen, Dante's only real time manipulation advantage is the type of manipulation that requires him to be doing combos (Chrono Heart) or specific attacks (SDT Time Manip). Quicksilver is questionable due to Nero having access to Ragtime, something utilised by Elder Geryon Knight so I think Nero's Ragtime should be equal to or superior to Quicksilver with non-breakage. Ragtime can work on Vergil, who should still have Mundus' power and thus the time resistance of Dante.

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty Quicksilver actually only has a specific radius so I think Nero and Dante are actually very equal in-terms of time manipulation overall. However, due to the rulings Nero has only one Ragtime to use so Nero has to use his Breakage VERY wisely.

I, from seeing videos of Quicksilver, also think that Quicksilver would still leave Nero as equal to or faster than DT Dante. Some argument can be made that Quicksilver SDT Dante may only really equalise the speed between DT Nero and SDT Dante.

So, overall I think the time manipulation isn't actually that great against Nero, seeing as it mostly slows time but Nero is so much faster that, while it weakens Nero, it wouldn't give Dante the advantage in speed.

_____________

With everything argued so far, I think this comes down to two factors

• Bangle of Time vs Ragtime

• How DT Nero actually scales compared to X10 DT Dante and SDT Dante, in terms of speed and power

If Nero has no answers to Bangle of Time, Dante may stomp but if Nero can just use Ragtime from the start, Nero may win with high difficulty (due to having only one Ragtime and Dante's superior Regenerationn when in DT or superior durability when in SDT).

 

[Xantospoc]

Nero SLAPS Dante. This thread is dumb

 

[Lightning_XXI]

You are forgeting Dante's Doppelganger, which creates a clone of himself, Dante's Sealing (when he sealed Mundus, he only needed Trish because he was heavily weakened, Sealing bypasses durability), Transmutation with Gilgamesh, Homing Attack with Pandora, Dante also have Intinctive Reactions, even more Enhanced Durability with Dreadnaught

Bangle of Time is Time Stop, so it should be naturally and infinitely superior to Ragtime, and I don't think Nero resists, his Time Manipulation can affect Dante since it affects Vergil, that's a fact, but this doesn't mean that Nero is immune to Time Stop. Also, as I said, Dante have answers in case Nero uses Breakage

Quicksilver in cutscene mode, at least Dante's style, almost stops time, he will be MUCH faster than Nero, considering that he can use other haxes like Quick Heart, which boosts his speed by 10 times. If Nero uses his Time Slow, Dante can just use aswell and equal their base speed, and after this, Nero can't use it again

Nero also have Quicksilver (Ragtime) but he can use only once, Dante can spam and combo with other types of Time Hax or Statistics Amplification

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I don't really think Dante's Doppelganger means a thing here. Nero had zero issues dealing with Vergil's Doppelganger.

You would have to elaborate on Dante's sealing. Does it require time to do? Any specific materials? What circumstances? What about his transmutation?

I don't think Dreadnaught is going to help if it's not something he can use in SDT. It will give him better chances of surviving in DT however, but it requires charge time doesn't it?

Doesn't Bangle of Time require charging to use? Whereas Nero just needs a moment to bust his Ragtime and slow time to a crawl. And, as I already said, Nero isn't going to waste his Ragtime. He is going to go for staggering Dante and defending himself with Devil Bringer before using Ragtime.

Can you, yourself, tell me how you expected Nero could win this match when you made this thread?

 

[DarkGrath]

Bangle of time does not require any charge time at all, if I remember correctly.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Bangle of time does not require any charge time at all, if I remember correctly.

??????????? Then why is this a match? Isn't that a blatant stomp?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

We can't say that is a stomp if Dante's best bet is on a specific hax

His Transmutation is physical, since Gilgamesh is a gauntlet, I don't it will be THAAAAT useful against Nero

His Sealing needs a charge but nothing long, and he can use it by charging Ebony and Ivory

 

[CryoTheMayo]

"We can't say that is a stomp if Dante's best bet is on a specific hax"

Well, it depends. Is it in-character for Dante to use the BoT to win a fight? Or would he hold off on it? Is the BoG limited by anything (charge time, requires Dante to be healthy, etc)? Would Nero be capable of surviving it or countering if Dante uses it even once? Can Dante just spam it?

"His Transmutation is physical, since Gilgamesh is a gauntlet, I don't it will be THAAAAT useful against Nero"

Okay, I'm more inclined to think Nero would just avoid it or overpower Dante (Dante can't use his devil arms in SDT, right?). Out of curiosity, can devil arms be destroyed? Do their durability depend on the demon or the wielder?

"His Sealing needs a charge but nothing long, and he can use it by charging Ebony and Ivory"

Okay, so it requires charge time. Would I be right to assume Nero has to be heavily weakened for it to work? I don't see why Dante wouldn't have just used it on Mundus from the start otherwise.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Sealing could be a finishing move, I believe, since it will bypass Nero's regen and durability

The Bangle is "limited" only by the DT Gauge, and since the DT Gauge is actually a game mech, then no, there is no limitation

He doesn't use as first move, but with Nero using Time Manipulation, Dante will use it for sure, since here he have killing intent

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Sealing could be a finishing move, I believe, since it will bypass Nero's regen and durability
The Bangle is "limited" only by the DT Gauge, and since the DT Gauge is actually a game mech, then no, there is no limitation

He doesn't use as first move, but with Nero using Time Manipulation, Dante will use it for sure, since here he have killing intent

So, with the arguments you, the OP, have presented (Nero is not resistant to the Time Stop due to lacking Mundus' power, Bangle of Time having no limitations, Dante has access to 10x modifiers that almost entirely remove Nero's advantages) what win conditions does Nero have?

If Nero was resistant to Time Stop and Dante lacked the 10x modifiers I'd be inclined to say Nero wins but if Nero only has one of each breaker type, no resistance to a Time Stop that has no limitations and has Dante being multiplied by 10 then I don't understand how exactly he is meant to win.

 

[Dienomite22]

If Vergil gets accepted to have time stop, Nero and Dante would gain resistance in DT.