The Legendary Devil Hunter Vs Local deadweght literally too angry to let his father die

[Omegafinity]

This thread while mostly articulately debated, is really silly. If Dante at peak form goes SDT, there is no way for Nero to survive if Dante is aiming to kill. The only reason anyone thinks Nero can compete against Dante is because of that one (Stupid) deus-ex-machina cutscene taken horribly out of context.

Dante had been in coma for a MONTH (after being completely stomped) when he went to fight urizen again. He then made his way to the deepest parts of the Qliphoth, fought all the enemies that he did, saved nero, stomped Urizen, and was slightly beaten up by his newly resurrected brother in tip-top condition, made his way to the top and fought vergil to near death (they were one serious SDT hit away from ending the fight) WITHOUT resting even once. This is something that bears the need for clear comprehension. There has been a canonical weakening mechanic in this game linked to stamina. When you think about all this for a minute, Dante doing all this is Legendary for all intents and purposes.

Also, Nero didn't really beat vergil , who btw was reluctant to fight his son ("This has nothing to do with you, stand aside"). He just forced him back enough for him to say "interesting". And this was when vergil was ONE hit (by Dante's SDT) away from death. So technically the healthpool nero faces is what Dante could've deleted in one serious strike.

Yes, nero flew/teleported between severely weakened Dante/Vergil before they hit each other. And Dante did something similar when Urizen was about to kill Nero. Thing is, that Dante only ever flies normally in his SDT in cutscenes and doesn't use something like Advent/Shift, which uses his demonic power. So yes, Nero's DT may be faster than a near-death Dante flying around in SDT. But at peak condition, the situation changes dramatically.

Also, please understand that if something is nerfed as a game mechanic, it is done so that players don't abuse it as the path of lest resistance. SDT does have regen (as evidenced by vergil), it isn't present for Dante just to make regular DT not completely Obsolete

Nero's Time Slow is definitely inferior to Dante's multitude of similar abilities. Ragtime is a machination by Nico which draws on demonic powers of Geryon to inflict temporary localized time-slows or temporary, stronger wide area time slows. Dante on the other hand has absorbed Geryon's soul which grants him complete access to the full range of Geryon's time manipulation. He also has Chrono Heart which contains the heart of an Old God. And the ridiculously OP bangle of time with complete time stop. Heck, SDT too has strong innate time manipulation as evidenced by "Judgement". Even Urizen has Time Slow which Nero is definitely susceptible to. And I'm almost sure that the stronger time slow overrides the weaker one (citation needed) so yeah, Dante completely outclasses Nero here.

This is not to mention all his other hax like Pandora, Swords formation (which is much more versatile than any Summoned Swords/ One hit fragile Devil Breakers Nero can bring) and much more. The list will be too long

Here's how the fight will go down if both of them are serious about killing each other. Dante doesn't waste time and instantly goes SDT which has inherent magic/gravity/time manipulation. Dante uses Advent to instantly reach nero and use Demolition/Judgement to end the fight. Nero may have time to enter DT but it doesn't make a difference with the PLETHORA of time slow/stop abilities Dante has at his disposal. DT nero doesn't make a difference either way. The fight ends in a stomp

Dante takes this with without a second thought.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Dante had been in coma for a MONTH (after being completely stomped) when he went to fight urizen again. He then made his way to the deepest parts of the Qliphoth, fought all the enemies that he did, saved nero, stomped Urizen, and was slightly beaten up by his newly resurrected brother in tip-top condition, made his way to the top and fought vergil to near death (they were one serious SDT hit away from ending the fight) WITHOUT resting even once. This is something that bears the need for clear comprehension. There has been a canonical weakening mechanic in this game linked to stamina. When you think about all this for a minute, Dante doing all this is Legendary for all intents and purposes.

Dante was growing stronger over time due to his body being fed by the Qliphoth roots. He was actually far stronger than he was before entering his coma. All of the enemies in the game (besides Urizen and Vergil) are complete fodder to him, so I wouldn't even remotely argue he was even slightly weakened. Dante had an entire hour to rest between Vergil's resurrection and fighting Vergil (check the timeline).

So, no. Dante wasn't even remotely weakened or challenged in the entire game. The only time he was exhausted was after fighting Urizen with Vergil knocking him away, and even then Dante could react and counter Vergil.

Also, Nero didn't really beat vergil , who btw was reluctant to fight his son ("This has nothing to do with you, stand aside"). He just forced him back enough for him to say "interesting". And this was when vergil was ONE hit (by Dante's SDT) away from death. So technically the healthpool nero faces is what Dante could've deleted in one serious strike.

Dante and Vergil literally state, multiple times, that Nero beat Vergil. Vergil even concedes to his loss before leaving to hell "I won't lose next time.". Vergil also survived and knocked Dante away before Dante could deplete his health pool. To add further, Regenerationn exists. I'm not denying that Vergil was weakened but I deny the absurd claim that Vergil was 'one hit' from death when the game prevents you from doing so and when Vergil had multiple minutes to regenerate.

Nero ALSO didn't want to kill Vergil, so you can't claim that Vergil was holding back then neglect that Nero would have avoided using any killing attacks. Meaning a holding-back Nero defeated Vergil.

Yes, nero flew/teleported between severely weakened Dante/Vergil before they hit each other. And Dante did something similar when Urizen was about to kill Nero. Thing is, that Dante only ever flies normally in his SDT in cutscenes and doesn't use something like Advent/Shift, which uses his demonic power. So yes, Nero's DT may be faster than a near-death Dante flying around in SDT. But at peak condition, the situation changes dramatically.

Nero literally flew between SDT Dante and SDT Vergil when they were a few inches from each other's face and stopped their movements completely with zero difficulty. Even if they were exhausted, this would still scale Nero's feats far above the exhausted SDTs and would likely make him comparable to their full power. Unless you are implying they were dozens of times weaker?

Nero's Time Slow is definitely inferior to Dante's multitude of similar abilities. Ragtime is a machination by Nico which draws on demonic powers of Geryon to inflict temporary localized time-slows or temporary, stronger wide area time slows. Dante on the other hand has absorbed Geryon's soul which grants him complete access to the full range of Geryon's time manipulation.

...Nero's Ragtime is built from an ELDER Geryon Knight, which is logically superior to a simple Geryon Knight. It also works perfectly fine on Vergil, who can resist Bangle of Time. I also don't recall Dante having any special time manipulation with Quicksilver that would make it even remotely different to or superior to Ragtime.

He also has Chrono Heart which contains the heart of an Old God. And the ridiculously OP bangle of time with complete time stop. Heck, SDT too has strong innate time manipulation as evidenced by "Judgement".

Chrono Heart only slows time when attacking. It's not going to be useful outside of combos. Bangle of Time is the entire reason this fight is a curbstomp (and I seriously question why it's considered default equipment). Yes, SDT has time manipulation but there is nothing to indicate that it's superior to Ragtime's breakage or that it would be a game changer.

Even Urizen has Time Slow which Nero is definitely susceptible to. And I'm almost sure that the stronger time slow overrides the weaker one (citation needed) so yeah, Dante completely outclasses Nero here.

Did you forget that Dante fights Urizen twice and is also susceptible to Urizen's time slow?

This is not to mention all his other hax like Pandora, Swords formation (which is much more versatile than any Summoned Swords/ One hit fragile Devil Breakers Nero can bring) and much more. The list will be too long

1. Nero can spam Summoned Swords to counter Dante's Sword Formation. He can do this no matter his condition.

2. Devil Breakers only break when they are being actively used.

3. Devil Arms have been destroyed several times in the story. I don't see why DT Nero can't just destroy Pandora.

Here's how the fight will go down if both of them are serious about killing each other. Dante doesn't waste time and instantly goes SDT which has inherent magic/gravity/time manipulation. Dante uses Advent to instantly reach nero and use Demolition/Judgement to end the fight.

Nero goes DT in reaction, either Gerberas out of the way or uses Table Hopper then breaks Gerbera, shatters Ragtime and proceeds to wail on Dante.

Nero may have time to enter DT but it doesn't make a difference with the PLETHORA of time slow/stop abilities Dante has at his disposal.

If Nero can react with DT, he can react with Summoned Swords and Ragtime.

DT nero doesn't make a difference either way. The fight ends in a stomp

DT Nero's speed should be superior to SDT Dante, due to DT Nero blitzing a tired SDT Dante and SDT Vergil (and, no, I'm not accepting the ridiculous claim that they were SO tired they were moving at 1/10th their speed or some garbage). If somebody were to calculate Nero's speed feat in that instance, I'm rather certain it would show Nero is far above the tired SDTs in speed, by dozens of times.

 

[KLOL506]

question

why is being called "deadweight" not a literal weakness of Nero?

 

[ABoogieYesSir]

It's not no more/

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Because Nero gets bloodlusted when called deadweight, it's more of a power boost. I mean, hell! It inspired Nero to surpass Post-DMC4 DT Dante in just a month!

 

[ABoogieYesSir]

Nero to Vergil F%%k YOU!

 

[GinDan]

In the novel Nero destroy the shield.

Dante immediately attack Urizen not the shield

 

[Dienomite22]

What novel?BTN? Don't remember that happening or it going into detail about that in the novel

 

[Lightning_XXI]

That actually doesn't matter, it's just an blalant, pathetic and obvious outlier for Nero to go to 7-A to 3-A in a month and do something that DT DMC5 Dante couldn't, also Urizen was completely casual and underestimated our cute deadweight

And it also doesn't matter because we are using Awakened Dante and EoG Nero

 

[Vallixass]

Gonna be honest, I'd have to give a slight edge to Dante. Yes, I know this has been said over and over again, but it's still true that Vergil was exhausted when Nero fought him, and it's been explicitly shown throughout the series that being out of stamina is extremely detrimental. I'm still almost certain Nero would still be 3-A, but probably on a much lower end. On top of that, with a couple
of small exceptions, Nero's abilities don't really help him all that much compared to Dante. Gonna have to do 1 vote for Dante, perhaps... mid to high difficulty?

His abilities actually help him quite a lot as the bringers allow him to increase his already impressive base strength AND they shapeshift and change in density putting his potential strength far above normal son of sparda base. Reminder, nowhere in the entire series is either vergil or Dante shown lifting and tossing enemies as big as Goliath. Neither of them have his strength feats. the only thing close is Vergil using balrog seemingly uppercutting a demon and hitting the ceiling, Nero eclipsed that hitting the toad so hard with one punch it flew around the whole area spinning and bouncing off walls. His displayed strengths feats eclipses all the ones they've displayed in every game.

He's fast enough to jump out of a car, kill all demons around it, jump back and forth around it (even onto another car) and make it back into the van before it landing on the ground.

He crashed through solid ground stopping both a Sdt Vergil and Dante traveling full speed dead in their tracks so hard, it caused a small implosion of debrees flying about. Casually hit Dante so hard he did a 360 and drew blood.

Caught a sdt Vergil and brought him to stop and body slammed him while Vergil was flying hard enough to destroy obstacles he flew by. YES the spardas have been weakened before, but it did not show Vergil to be that weakened at all. Someone able to sustain an Sdt mode is not "weakened". Infact in the actual fight, Vergil fought Nero harder than he fought Dante as after his health drops to about 50 percent Vergil goes into sdt form and never leaves it for the remainder of the battle whereas with Dante, Vergil kept going back to human form allthroughout the fight. Sorry but that's not a sign of someone being in a significantly "weakened" state.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

That actually doesn't matter, it's just an blalant, pathetic and obvious outlier for Nero to go to 7-A to 3-A in a month and do something that DT DMC5 Dante couldn't, also Urizen was completely casual and underestimated our cute deadweight
And it also doesn't matter because we are using Awakened Dante and EoG Nero

Well, actually. DMC5 takes place years after DMC4. We don't know how much stronger Nero became in that time gap. All you can say is that Nero got stomped by Urizen but so did DT Dante.

The gap may not actually be that huge between BoG DT Dante and BoG Nero. We also have no basis for how Nero compares to Dante after a month of absorbing blood. All you can really say is that Nero went somewhere beneath DT Dante to being considerably superior to DT Dante in a month.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

In the beggining Nero was asking himself why he was there since Dante already was fighting Urizen

Their gap was big, and that's an outlier

Anyway, this is a stomp with the new revisions, so I'm closing this when I get home

 

[Schnee_One]

Wut revisions?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

here

 

[CryoTheMayo]

In the beggining Nero was asking himself why he was there since Dante already was fighting Urizen
Their gap was big, and that's an outlier

Anyway, this is a stomp with the new revisions, so I'm closing this when I get home

...Nero was missing an arm and highly respects Dante. The novel even mentions that Urizen's defeat of Nero was the result of Nero missing his arm and lacking the dexterity to use his weapons properly.

I'm not going to claim Nero was akin to DT Dante or anything but I am saying that you can't claim the gap was impossibly huge when we never seriously saw Nero's power before being crippled. You can argue that Vergil effortlessly tore Nero apart but Nero was clearly off-guard and we have no real way of telling just how powerful Vergil was at the time.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

How is this a stomp exactly? @Dante.

 

[GrathOfLux]

How is this a stomp exactly? @Dante.

I'm curious myself. What changes did Dante get that now makes it a stomp?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Well, Dante was already winning and now he have Holy Manip, Invulnerability and Mid Regenerationn Negation

So I dunno, if you guys think it's not a stomp, fine

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I don't think Holy Manipulation means anything. The Holy Water is described as 'destroying all the evil around you' which I doubt Nero would fall under.

Invulnerability depends. How long does Untouchable last for? Is it agreed that Dante can use these items and effects in SDT?or would he only be capable of invuln with DT?

I can't seem to find the justification for Mid-Regenerationn negation so I'd have to be sourced it to know how to argue it.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

The Untouchable Item can be used freely, base, DT or SDT, we don't see him using in SDT because there is no itens in the game, or in other words, game mechs

Argosax, who have Mid Regen, couldn't regenerate from Dante's attacks