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The Legend of Zelda II: Adventure of General Discussion
- Thread starter TriforcePower1
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Actually, reading the Golden Goddess AP description has me scratching my head:
"Low Multiverse level (She and her sisters created the Downfall Timeline and the Adult Timeline, along with the universes inside said timelines)"
Where's the proof in this? Wasn't Link's messing around with time in OoT, the thing that caused a split in the timeline?
How do the GGs scale to this?
"Low Multiverse level (She and her sisters created the Downfall Timeline and the Adult Timeline, along with the universes inside said timelines)"
Where's the proof in this? Wasn't Link's messing around with time in OoT, the thing that caused a split in the timeline?
How do the GGs scale to this?
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If we get the proof the Goddesses doing that then there's solid backup for the rest of the revision.
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The Goddess should be 2-C for creating the Light World, the Sacred Realm, and other universes that exist (Lorule maybe?).TartaChocholate said:
Not from Link messing with the timeline though.
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I still say they should scale from creating the Hyrule Warriors dimension.
"I have a personal obsession with the Zelda timeline, and when I brought the topic up with Zelda series producer Eiji Aonuma during a recent interview, he didn't need a translator to know what I was asking about. As soon as he heard the word timeline, he began chuckling.
Is Hyrule Warriors canon? Does it fit in the Zelda timeline?
Aonuma: Within the Zelda canon, there is the timeline, but there has always been the sense of the main story and kind of a side story. Like, Majora's Mask might be considered part of that, though it does exist as part of the timeline. With Hyrule Warriors, there is a link between the two, but it exists as a separate dimension, so it doesn't exist as part of the main canon. Lately I have been thinking of it similar to The Avengers.
Each of the characters has their own timeline, so there shouldn't be any crossover there, but maybe they've been brought together as part of that story?
So it doesn't slot anywhere in the timeline that we know of?
Aonuma: Maybe if you force it in somewhere, but that's not something we want to do. The universe of Hyrule Warriors really is sort of a different universe and it is connected to the timeline of the Zelda series, but it is connected to several different games throughout the series. If you try and force this into it here [Aonuma places his hands in the air indicating different levels of the timeline], then…that information might not be complete. We really don't want to put it in the timeline because it has links to the different parts of the timeline."
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/news...ule-warriors-place-in-the-zelda-timeline.aspx
"I have a personal obsession with the Zelda timeline, and when I brought the topic up with Zelda series producer Eiji Aonuma during a recent interview, he didn't need a translator to know what I was asking about. As soon as he heard the word timeline, he began chuckling.
Is Hyrule Warriors canon? Does it fit in the Zelda timeline?
Aonuma: Within the Zelda canon, there is the timeline, but there has always been the sense of the main story and kind of a side story. Like, Majora's Mask might be considered part of that, though it does exist as part of the timeline. With Hyrule Warriors, there is a link between the two, but it exists as a separate dimension, so it doesn't exist as part of the main canon. Lately I have been thinking of it similar to The Avengers.
Each of the characters has their own timeline, so there shouldn't be any crossover there, but maybe they've been brought together as part of that story?
So it doesn't slot anywhere in the timeline that we know of?
Aonuma: Maybe if you force it in somewhere, but that's not something we want to do. The universe of Hyrule Warriors really is sort of a different universe and it is connected to the timeline of the Zelda series, but it is connected to several different games throughout the series. If you try and force this into it here [Aonuma places his hands in the air indicating different levels of the timeline], then…that information might not be complete. We really don't want to put it in the timeline because it has links to the different parts of the timeline."
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/news...ule-warriors-place-in-the-zelda-timeline.aspx
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Aonuma literally states that Hyrule Warrior is non-canon in that quotation.
The GGs aren't scalable from that game.
The GGs aren't scalable from that game.
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- #327
?
No, he only says it's a different universe. That's =/= from non-canon
No, he only says it's a different universe. That's =/= from non-canon
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He says that it, "doesn't exist as apart of the main canon" and that it takes place in it's own seperate universe.TriforcePower1 said:
It's not canon.
Trying to scale using Hyrule Warriors is like trying to scale Smash Brothers characters to their respective franchises because the Smash Brothers world is a separated universe that isn't apart of any of the games main canon.
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@Warren. The Downfall Timeline always existed. Link's time travel separates the Child and Adult timelines.
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It kinda does give that vibe, that he doesn't want it to include it with the main Zelda games but without being blunt about its canonicity (and the way he says universe feels more like "its own story" than "separate space-time location within the verse"). I don't know if we can rely on that. I think the issue is finally demonstrating the universes we have are valid enough.
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Proof?The real cal howard said:
The Downfall Timeline comes from Link falling in his quest to defeat Ganon in OoT.
It's a "What if" alternate universe.
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Yes, the timeline that contains the game that started the series is a "what if" game...
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That doesn't prove anything.The real cal howard said:
Hell, if the Downfall Timeline always existed, then it would be a spereate line parallel to the main timeline - but it isn't, it is connected and created after the event of Ocarina of Time.
The fact that there is a timeline for Link dying in his fight with Ganondorf proves that there is a timeline created through actions - not just by time travel shenanigans. That's proof that the Zelda multiverse operates under the Many-Worlds Theory.
In other words, the Downfall Timeline's existence shows that the Zelda verse is 2-B.
Sadly it just doesn't scale to anyone.
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PaChi2 said:
Change of programs. Tomorrow or the day after tomorrow at maximum. And it will just me addressing the idiocy of considering literally everything in a cosmology 4-B sized.
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Popcorn time
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I agree with you about 3-A, but don't make a CRT based on your emotions.
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- #338
Don't worry, I'm not stupid enough to risk one of my chances at this. Also, I'm not doing a 3-A Zelda thread. I'm going to do one about worlds, dimensions and universes.
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- #340
Just create a page about ALTTP's cuccos.
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@Warren: Many worlds theory?
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There is a parallel world created from every possible action that can be made in history.TartaChocholate said:
In Zelda's case - Link dies fighting Ganon, which creates a split in the timeline known as the Downfall Timeline.
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,757
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So I've been working on a revamp for Ganons profile for a little while now (I was inspired by all those marvel profiles like Doctor Doom and Loki getting revamps).
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Dust_Collector/Sandbox2
It's still quite a bit unfinished, I'd say I'm roughly 70% done with it, but I hope it looks like a notable improvement. I've removed some abilities that he doesn't actually have (And what was removed was useless anyway) and added a bunch of abilities he doesn't already have, added keys for his FSA and Calamity Ganon incarnations, expanded his notable techniques section, expanded more on his range and intelligence, and added some quality of life stuff like more quotes, gifs that visually showcase his techniques, and a summary that isn't ripped word for word from the Zelda wiki. Feedback is appreciated.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Dust_Collector/Sandbox2
It's still quite a bit unfinished, I'd say I'm roughly 70% done with it, but I hope it looks like a notable improvement. I've removed some abilities that he doesn't actually have (And what was removed was useless anyway) and added a bunch of abilities he doesn't already have, added keys for his FSA and Calamity Ganon incarnations, expanded his notable techniques section, expanded more on his range and intelligence, and added some quality of life stuff like more quotes, gifs that visually showcase his techniques, and a summary that isn't ripped word for word from the Zelda wiki. Feedback is appreciated.
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Not bad at all! I appreciated that you included Dark Beast Ganon in the profile, really nice job.Dust Collector said:
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Hopefully, Tier 3/2 Zelda will happened eventually, but we're going to have to wait for more source material. Though, Breath of the Wild is confirmed to basically merge all three timelines into one. But the question is who's responsible for it?
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Where was this confirmation?DarkDragonMedeus said:
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It's in Japanese, but official detail is right here. Notice Breath of the Wild takes place at the end of all three timelines. And while not an official detail, this page elaborates further details.
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Nothing proves that BOTW is a timeline convergence.DarkDragonMedeus said:
It can just as easily be the events of BOTW are fated to happen in every timeline.
Aonuma stated that BOTW will never have a place in the timeline at all.
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He just means that he's not going to be specific anytime soon and that it's up to the imagination. It's up to the Imagination who the "Goddess of Time" is though. No one knows if its a 5th Goddess, one of the Golden Goddesses, or Hylia. But either way, Breath of the Wild does legit take place at the end of all three timelines.
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Again, nothing proves that the timelines converged into one.DarkDragonMedeus said:
And Aonuma said he doesn't want to put Breath of the Wild in the timeline because he finds it to limiting to the player or some bullshit like that.
If the creator says it is up to one imagination - than it doesn't matter. Period.
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He confirmed it was after Ocarina of Time, and we also know that it's like more than 10,000 years where as other games typically only have 100 year intervals between each generation. So that proves it would be at the very end for sure. And the game itself gives details and hints of each timeline being a past. There was an ancient sea that covered all of Hyrule and the existence of Korok and Rito; confirming Adult Timeline. Even though Zora and Rito both exist, but covered by other timelines. There's confirmations of Mirror of Twilight's destruction and Midna once living; confirming Child timeline. And there's a whole bunch of stuff confirming Downfall Timeline, with the main one is Ganon being a pure beast rather than a Gerudo.
It's at the end of each and every timeline period however one looks at it.
It's at the end of each and every timeline period however one looks at it.
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- #352
Done it.
Any idea to better this?
Well, this should have been tackled a lot of time ago, but I guess now is a good time to do it.
Worlds and Dimensions are words generally used to describe places outside of the main universe, and universe is, well, an universe.
My problem comes from the lack of standards for size for the former two. We sometimes consider worlds to mean universe without much more context, like with JoJo's cosmology which is 2-A for having "Infinite Worlds", but not once it is stated that there are "infinite universes". Something similar happens with Pokémon. Currently they scale to several countless dimensions * 300 millions. The problem, once again, is that many of those aren't explicitly stated to be universes, like Bronzong's dimensions, Ultra Space etc.
Still, many series like Castlevania or Zelda scale their 4-A or High 4-C from the creation, respectively, of worlds in Dracula's castle or from Demise's Demon World.
Now, before continuing, I want to make something clear. I'm NOT trying to upgrade nor downgrade any of the series presented above. Rather, I'm merely analyzing them in order to create a definite standard that we can use to evaluate other verses.
Obviously the difference between the first example and the second one is that we consider worlds or dimensions that are created alongside the original universe, especially if they're created by an already confirmed Tier 2, to be universal in size, whereas worlds or dimensions created later on by a character need proof. Also, as we partially see from DMC, parallel dimensions of an established universe are also generally considered universes.
Conclusions
We should write a standard, something like this:
"Worlds or Dimensions that are created alongside the main universe, especially if it's done by an established Tier 2 or higher and/or are parallel dimensions of an established universe should be considered universal in size. Instead, dimensions or worlds that are created later on, especially if they're created by a character in the setting of the story, are to be considered pocket dimensions and, as such, fall under the already established standards for them"
I've merely analyzed what most verses in the wiki do, and created a standard for the evaluation of other verses.
Any idea to better this?
Well, this should have been tackled a lot of time ago, but I guess now is a good time to do it.
Worlds and Dimensions are words generally used to describe places outside of the main universe, and universe is, well, an universe.
My problem comes from the lack of standards for size for the former two. We sometimes consider worlds to mean universe without much more context, like with JoJo's cosmology which is 2-A for having "Infinite Worlds", but not once it is stated that there are "infinite universes". Something similar happens with Pokémon. Currently they scale to several countless dimensions * 300 millions. The problem, once again, is that many of those aren't explicitly stated to be universes, like Bronzong's dimensions, Ultra Space etc.
Still, many series like Castlevania or Zelda scale their 4-A or High 4-C from the creation, respectively, of worlds in Dracula's castle or from Demise's Demon World.
Now, before continuing, I want to make something clear. I'm NOT trying to upgrade nor downgrade any of the series presented above. Rather, I'm merely analyzing them in order to create a definite standard that we can use to evaluate other verses.
Obviously the difference between the first example and the second one is that we consider worlds or dimensions that are created alongside the original universe, especially if they're created by an already confirmed Tier 2, to be universal in size, whereas worlds or dimensions created later on by a character need proof. Also, as we partially see from DMC, parallel dimensions of an established universe are also generally considered universes.
Conclusions
We should write a standard, something like this:
"Worlds or Dimensions that are created alongside the main universe, especially if it's done by an established Tier 2 or higher and/or are parallel dimensions of an established universe should be considered universal in size. Instead, dimensions or worlds that are created later on, especially if they're created by a character in the setting of the story, are to be considered pocket dimensions and, as such, fall under the already established standards for them"
I've merely analyzed what most verses in the wiki do, and created a standard for the evaluation of other verses.
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Goodness, this is really, really good.Dust Collector said:
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,757
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"Worlds or Dimensions that are created alongside the main universe, especially if it's done by an established Tier 2 or higher and/or are parallel dimensions of an established universe should be considered universal in size. Instead, dimensions or worlds that are created later on, especially if they're created by a character in the setting of the story, are to be considered pocket dimensions and, as such, fall under the already established standards for them"
I agree with this, looks like a good standard to have, also thanks for the compliment on my Ganon profile.
I agree with this, looks like a good standard to have, also thanks for the compliment on my Ganon profile.
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Thank you @Dust
Anyway, does anyone have any more example that I can use? I haven't posted it yet because I feel like there aren't enough examples.
Anyway, does anyone have any more example that I can use? I haven't posted it yet because I feel like there aren't enough examples.
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,757
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Well we do already have a statement that Demise "conquered time", should be enough to make him Low 2-C ovo.
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- #359
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3127395
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One step closer to 3-A TLoZ.TriforcePower1 said:
- Status
