The Heretic Faces The Nether's Ultimate Mob (Heretical Priest vs Wither)

[Flashlight237]

So out of pure curiosity thanks to the Heretical Priest vs Tricky thread (See here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/a-heretical-crusade-on-the-clown-kills-you-4-0-0.147245 )), I wanted to see if it's possible for the Heretical Priest to go up against the Wither. So from what I've read in the thread...

Heretical Priest's death manip is instantaneous, bypasses the idea of being undead, and has a range of 30 feet (9.144 meters). In-character, Heretical Priest starts invisible and goes right for death manip. It can also become intangible, making it hard to hit. Also, the Priest can make undead creatures bow down to it based on a Morale check aka random chance (yeah, it came from a DnD game; what else is new?). If nothing else, it has Fate Manipulation. That's broken, right? Right?

As for the Wither, he outright resists Death Manipulation (https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Wither_(effect)#Unaffected_mobs ), is unaffected by attacks from the undead, can see invisible beings and in pitch-black darkness, can harm intangible beings, and cannot be banished due to its resistance to BFR. At the same time, it, like other undead beings, can be harmed by healing and purification. Also, unlike the Priest, the Wither is basically a wild animal. He typically starts by exploding, destroying the ground around it after 11 seconds of trying to spawn in (the spawning period of which he is outright invulnerable), so basically priest has 11 free seconds to strategize. I wonder how this would go...

1. Range is set to 10 meters.
2. Priest is at his best key.
3. Speed is Equalized
4. Battle takes place within and in the general vicinity of St. Peter's Basilica
5. Priest has prior knowledge of the Wither

Here are their profiles:

Heretical Priest's Profile (He Looks Like He Snorted a Pint of Cocaine)
The Wither's Profile

I legitimately hope this is fair.

Heretical Priest: 0
Wither: 0
Inconclusive: 1 (AThe1412)

 

[Flashlight237]

Hmm, wow. Can't believe I made this thread. Was this match even valid?

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Welp, I don't know if it is valid, but it is an interesting match, for sure!

I am comparing things on their profile, and I'll adopt Saman's method of comparing what they have and say how much of a problem it is for the other.

Wither

• Vastly superior physical prowess: oh hell nah. The Priest will get vaporized by ANYTHING the Wither does. Best-case scenario, their bodies fade in time to avoid an attack, but not only that can't be spammed, but the Wither has long-lasting, explosive continuous attacks. Funnily enough, this makes the Wither's usual durability-negating effects pretty much redundant, as if the Priest is hit by anything, they die.
• Regeneration (Mid): This is also redundant, I've genuinely checked the Priest's entire profile and I can already tell you that any wincons that they might have are not due to physical harm.
• Summoning: Same as Regeneration, but it is the kind of icing on the cake because if somehow the Priest even manages to injure it seriously, it gets even more screwed up.
• Massive range advantage and Flight: Sort of nullified since the fight starts at ten meters, but this means that whatever the Priest will do, he must do it fast, or the Wither will use the fully in-character strategy of flying the heck away and blast him at range.

Everything else I kind of covered up - the durability-negating stuff would only be relevant if the Priest could tank anything.

Priest
First off, the greatest advantage and what makes this match even possible is prior knowledge on how the Wither works and what to exactly avoid doing, because I can already tell you - about 90% of everything the Priest has outright doesn't work. So, any scenario will be following the best course of action. Also, I won't even consider any powers that lessen the target's durability or increases the Priest and his allies' physical abilities, nor any summoning unless it is of a haxxed creature, as - I must reiterate - any physical confrontation is already a losing proposition.

• Fate Manipulation: The thing about this is that the Wither does not exactly resist Fate Manipulation, but it does resist effects that would give it bad luck and warp probability. We can discuss semantics and consider that Fate is different for the sake of the argument, but in my opinion, this negates part of the effect of this ability... and the sole useful one, because all the others increase the Priest's hit chance, damage and dodge, which... really won't help here.
• Invisibility and Camouflage: I was pretty sure the Wither could see invisible creatures and it checked out on the profile, and to my surprise upon checking MC history and wiki, it doesn't! It did in certain versions, though, which is from where my memory comes from. This is very good, as the Priest can start out invisible and the Wither will spawn mostly docile and close to the ground, only levitating a bit. Hilariously, this only applies to invisibility given by the sacred item and by (a phrase I hope never have to utter again on this website) cover himself with baby intestines - their other method of invisibility attracts undead, which the Wither is, and wouldn't help. Also, the INSTANT the Wither suspects of the Priest's location, he is dead by continuous, rapid bombardment. ADDENDUM: If we consider the profile and the versions in which they could detect invisible players, this entire match gets much dicier - they will need to start with a Mind/Sleep/Madness effect and possibly need to avoid one or two skulls, which should be doable, despite everything.
• Mind, Sleep and Madness Manipulation: Okay, so there are a lot of ways the Priest can achieve this, and each is rather specific. They can make the Wither bow and go away for a bit, buying them time. They can confuse and befuddle it, which is useful. They can make the Wither obey a single command blindly, which is great, but the Wither cannot damage itself, so suicide isn't an option. Maybe they can order the Wither to go away indefinitely? The Wither can't even be ordered to suffocate itself, it destroys most forms of matter instantaneously. They can make the Wither go to sleep. Can they even sleep? If they can, well, there's maybe a way to incapacitation wincon.
• Intangibility: It may be able to save his ass if it gets blasted, but I wouldn't count on it thanks to the method by which the Wither fights.
• Body Manipulation: The Wither does not need to eat, so it can't be made to starve.
• Absorption: It is made pretty clear in Minecraft that the Wither does not possess lifeforce, and is actually injured by it, as with all the undead. I don't know if it would work here.
• Healing: The Water of Life and the other healing items will actually work here, as they should deal significant damage to the Wither, but not nearly enough. Even the strongest healing potions in MC does not do that much damage to the Wither. Despite being effective, even pursuing this avenue is ill-advised, as the Wither will summon Wither Skeletons if it ever gets close to death, Mid Regeneration is at full play here, they get the Wither armor, and worse of all, they zero in the Priest's direction and bombard him.
• Petrification: The way it is worded, the dagger may need to injure the target to actually take effect. This is a very looney tunes sounding theory, but I suppose that the dagger, covered by healing fluids might cause enough chip damage to petrify the Wither. I'll consider this a... possible wincon. Maybe.
• Furiously, a lot of the durability negating/wincons stuff, such as turning blood into acid, poisoning, freezing the target's blood and BFR, or the nastier effects, are all outright resisted by the Wither, either due to their undead nature or natural resistances.

So, what we end up with?

The Wither is an absolute physical menace that the Priest cannot hope to match, nor can he even hope of engaging in combat at all with the thing, no matter how much he buffs himself and debuffs the Wither.

The Heretic Priest has very few options. Healing items may be used to damage them, but it won't be nearly enough and will immediately call attention to himself. Sleep Manipulation does not seem to work, as the undead in Minecraft do not seem to even be able to sleep, but if it does, maybe it counts as a wincon, or at least incapacitates it enough that the priest can, I dunno, stab the Wither with the petrifying knife enough to eventually petrify it? The petrification plan is a genuine wincon, but the sheer durability of the Wither and the fact that it will immediately take notice of the Priest the moment he lands a hit makes this very dicey. Mind and Madness Manipulation seem to be the ticket here, as they could ward off the Wither with a fleeing command or set up this so the Priest maybe, just maybe, can pull something out of his ass.

This all is very outlandish, and the odds are very much against the Priest. And this is all assuming the invisibility would work - if it doesn't, this becomes a lot tougher and more uncertain. The only thing that even makes a victory possible here is that the Priest has previous knowledge of the Wither.

My assessment is:

• If the improbable plan of healing potion-dunked petrifying dagger works, if the Wither can be put to sleep, if it is considered a victory if the Wither is ordered to go away, or if just chipping away at the Wither works, the Priest would win. Any other scenario ends up with an inconclusive at best.
• If the mind control ends at any point and the Priest cannot re-establish it quick enough, he loses, and loses badly. In fact, if they were ordered to go away, the Wither wins 100% of the time because the massive range advantage will nullify anything the Priest comes up with.
• If the invisibility does not work, well, I'll say it is inconclusive. It really depends on how and what the Priest can do with his mind influencing powers, and if they can survive even one or two skulls, as their explosive characteristic makes it really difficult for the Priest to avoid it.

 

[Flashlight237]

Welp, I don't know if it is valid, but it is an interesting match, for sure!

I am comparing things on their profile, and I'll adopt Saman's method of comparing what they have and say how much of a problem it is for the other.

Wither

• Vastly superior physical prowess: oh hell nah. The Priest will get vaporized by ANYTHING the Wither does. Best-case scenario, their bodies fade in time to avoid an attack, but not only that can't be spammed, but the Wither has long-lasting, explosive continuous attacks. Funnily enough, this makes the Wither's usual durability-negating effects pretty much redundant, as if the Priest is hit by anything, they die.
• Regeneration (Mid): This is also redundant, I've genuinely checked the Priest's entire profile and I can already tell you that any wincons that they might have are not due to physical harm.
• Summoning: Same as Regeneration, but it is the kind of icing on the cake because if somehow the Priest even manages to injure it seriously, it gets even more screwed up.
• Massive range advantage and Flight: Sort of nullified since the fight starts at ten meters, but this means that whatever the Priest will do, he must do it fast, or the Wither will use the fully in-character strategy of flying the heck away and blast him at range.

Everything else I kind of covered up - the durability-negating stuff would only be relevant if the Priest could tank anything.

Priest
First off, the greatest advantage and what makes this match even possible is prior knowledge on how the Wither works and what to exactly avoid doing, because I can already tell you - about 90% of everything the Priest has outright doesn't work. So, any scenario will be following the best course of action. Also, I won't even consider any powers that lessen the target's durability or increases the Priest and his allies' physical abilities, nor any summoning unless it is of a haxxed creature, as - I must reiterate - any physical confrontation is already a losing proposition.

• Fate Manipulation: The thing about this is that the Wither does not exactly resist Fate Manipulation, but it does resist effects that would give it bad luck and warp probability. We can discuss semantics and consider that Fate is different for the sake of the argument, but in my opinion, this negates part of the effect of this ability... and the sole useful one, because all the others increase the Priest's hit chance, damage and dodge, which... really won't help here.
• Invisibility and Camouflage: I was pretty sure the Wither could see invisible creatures and it checked out on the profile, and to my surprise upon checking MC history and wiki, it doesn't! It did in certain versions, though, which is from where my memory comes from. This is very good, as the Priest can start out invisible and the Wither will spawn mostly docile and close to the ground, only levitating a bit. Hilariously, this only applies to invisibility given by the sacred item and by (a phrase I hope never have to utter again on this website) cover himself with baby intestines - their other method of invisibility attracts undead, which the Wither is, and wouldn't help. Also, the INSTANT the Wither suspects of the Priest's location, he is dead by continuous, rapid bombardment. ADDENDUM: If we consider the profile and the versions in which they could detect invisible players, this entire match gets much dicier - they will need to start with a Mind/Sleep/Madness effect and possibly need to avoid one or two skulls, which should be doable, despite everything.
• Mind, Sleep and Madness Manipulation: Okay, so there are a lot of ways the Priest can achieve this, and each is rather specific. They can make the Wither bow and go away for a bit, buying them time. They can confuse and befuddle it, which is useful. They can make the Wither obey a single command blindly, which is great, but the Wither cannot damage itself, so suicide isn't an option. Maybe they can order the Wither to go away indefinitely? The Wither can't even be ordered to suffocate itself, it destroys most forms of matter instantaneously. They can make the Wither go to sleep. Can they even sleep? If they can, well, there's maybe a way to incapacitation wincon.
• Intangibility: It may be able to save his ass if it gets blasted, but I wouldn't count on it thanks to the method by which the Wither fights.
• Body Manipulation: The Wither does not need to eat, so it can't be made to starve.
• Absorption: It is made pretty clear in Minecraft that the Wither does not possess lifeforce, and is actually injured by it, as with all the undead. I don't know if it would work here.
• Healing: The Water of Life and the other healing items will actually work here, as they should deal significant damage to the Wither, but not nearly enough. Even the strongest healing potions in MC does not do that much damage to the Wither. Despite being effective, even pursuing this avenue is ill-advised, as the Wither will summon Wither Skeletons if it ever gets close to death, Mid Regeneration is at full play here, they get the Wither armor, and worse of all, they zero in the Priest's direction and bombard him.
• Petrification: The way it is worded, the dagger may need to injure the target to actually take effect. This is a very looney tunes sounding theory, but I suppose that the dagger, covered by healing fluids might cause enough chip damage to petrify the Wither. I'll consider this a... possible wincon. Maybe.
• Furiously, a lot of the durability negating/wincons stuff, such as turning blood into acid, poisoning, freezing the target's blood and BFR, or the nastier effects, are all outright resisted by the Wither, either due to their undead nature or natural resistances.

So, what we end up with?

The Wither is an absolute physical menace that the Priest cannot hope to match, nor can he even hope of engaging in combat at all with the thing, no matter how much he buffs himself and debuffs the Wither.

The Heretic Priest has very few options. Healing items may be used to damage them, but it won't be nearly enough and will immediately call attention to himself. Sleep Manipulation does not seem to work, as the undead in Minecraft do not seem to even be able to sleep, but if it does, maybe it counts as a wincon, or at least incapacitates it enough that the priest can, I dunno, stab the Wither with the petrifying knife enough to eventually petrify it? The petrification plan is a genuine wincon, but the sheer durability of the Wither and the fact that it will immediately take notice of the Priest the moment he lands a hit makes this very dicey. Mind and Madness Manipulation seem to be the ticket here, as they could ward off the Wither with a fleeing command or set up this so the Priest maybe, just maybe, can pull something out of his ass.

This all is very outlandish, and the odds are very much against the Priest. And this is all assuming the invisibility would work - if it doesn't, this becomes a lot tougher and more uncertain. The only thing that even makes a victory possible here is that the Priest has previous knowledge of the Wither.

My assessment is:

• If the improbable plan of healing potion-dunked petrifying dagger works, if the Wither can be put to sleep, if it is considered a victory if the Wither is ordered to go away, or if just chipping away at the Wither works, the Priest would win. Any other scenario ends up with an inconclusive at best.
• If the mind control ends at any point and the Priest cannot re-establish it quick enough, he loses, and loses badly. In fact, if they were ordered to go away, the Wither wins 100% of the time because the massive range advantage will nullify anything the Priest comes up with.
• If the invisibility does not work, well, I'll say it is inconclusive. It really depends on how and what the Priest can do with his mind influencing powers, and if they can survive even one or two skulls, as their explosive characteristic makes it really difficult for the Priest to avoid it.

Thinking about it, MORK BORG seems to be a Dungeons and Dragons-styled campaign book. Given how the latter can be molded within reason, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of a Heretical Priest imbuing a dagger with healing potions, which is a strategy I believe depends on whether the GM of the campaign allows it or not. That is my take on the idea, although it would make things even dicier than they already are.

Also, interesting assessment. Based on the tally, it seems without a win-con for the Priest, it would either be an inconclusive or a stomp in the Wither's favor, which makes things a little finicky, ngl.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

The thing is, this isn't exactly a simple match. The Priest can genuinely, in any scenario, ward off the Wither, and the problem is that the possible wincons are really dubious. I personally consider the petrifying method valid, and it would be a very interesting victory, because while it would seem the Priest had win handily to an outside perspective, it just barely works - any deviations from that scenario spells death for the Priest.

Kinda thematic, really. Reminds me of the mythology folklore about what happens when warlocks deal with powerful entities. They will get massacred unless they perform a very specific rite that seemingly bypasses everything the entity does.

 

[Flashlight237]

Kinda thematic, really. Reminds me of the mythology folklore about what happens when warlocks deal with powerful entities. They will get massacred unless they perform a very specific rite that seemingly bypasses everything the entity does.

Yeah, what is up with that?

 

[Flashlight237]

Okay, so the one singular assessment made for this match should still be valid as neither the Priest nor the Wither had their profiles changed since the last post of the thread. May as well necro it. That was how I got someone to assess the situation last time.

 

[AThe1412]

From what I have read, I'll vote Inconclusive for Venom's reasons.

 

[Flashlight237]

From what I have read, I'll vote Inconclusive for Venom's reasons.

Okie-dokie!

 

[Peppersalt43]

Huh, surprised to see this thread back

Incon FRA