Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
- 12,447
I'm regretting not calling this "The Great Sisyphean Quest to Downgrade God of War", but I think it's too late to change it. I'm also doing a few more abilities this time around, since most of them save for one are pretty straightforward.
Soul Manipulation [Hermes]
Hermes can escort souls to the Underworld. He doesn't destroy them, control them, or otherwise interact with them in a manner that could be described as "manipulation"; He merely guides them to a location.
BFR [Sisters of Fate]
The Sisters of Fate can send souls to the Underworld. By killing people. That’s what happens when people die (an event which is orchestrated by the Fates), they go to the Underworld. This isn’t BFR at all, it’s just how the afterlife works.
Transmutation & Durability Negation [Spear of Destiny]
The Spear of Destiny can turn people purple and make them explode. For starters, making a thing purple isn’t transmutation; It’s not turning their flesh to crystal, it’s not shooting a beam that turns enemies into candy, it just… makes them purple. Explosions also don’t negate durability by default, they can be tanked with sufficient durability just fine. Like, a not insubstantial number of durability feats on the site are from surviving explosions. This would also necessitate the removal of resistance to these abilities on the appropriate profiles.
Probability Manipulation & Causality Manipulation [Sisters of Fate]
Let me just post the justification and work my way down from there.
The only thing I could find that would support either ability is a statement that one of the sisters could change Kratos’ past. This is fine in a vacuum, but it’s been established that the sisters possess the ability to travel into the past. Kratos himself uses this power to avert his fate; This is likely what was meant by “changing his past”. Not changing it through some magic power to warp the past, but by going there physically and doing the dirty work yourself. This would be a basic function of time travel, and in no way attributable to some sort of causality hax.
Miscellaneous Stuff
Just some things that Planck accepted in the original downgrade thread, but were never applied. These are all straightforward.
Soul Manipulation [Hermes]
Hermes can escort souls to the Underworld. He doesn't destroy them, control them, or otherwise interact with them in a manner that could be described as "manipulation"; He merely guides them to a location.
BFR [Sisters of Fate]
The Sisters of Fate can send souls to the Underworld. By killing people. That’s what happens when people die (an event which is orchestrated by the Fates), they go to the Underworld. This isn’t BFR at all, it’s just how the afterlife works.
Transmutation & Durability Negation [Spear of Destiny]
The Spear of Destiny can turn people purple and make them explode. For starters, making a thing purple isn’t transmutation; It’s not turning their flesh to crystal, it’s not shooting a beam that turns enemies into candy, it just… makes them purple. Explosions also don’t negate durability by default, they can be tanked with sufficient durability just fine. Like, a not insubstantial number of durability feats on the site are from surviving explosions. This would also necessitate the removal of resistance to these abilities on the appropriate profiles.
Probability Manipulation & Causality Manipulation [Sisters of Fate]
Let me just post the justification and work my way down from there.
The easy debunk is that everything described here is just fate manipulation, and only resembles probability and causality manipulation due to these abilities sharing some surface level similarities (such as the ability to cause different events and outcomes through indirect manipulation). The more difficult debunk is taking these statements one at a time, which I will do right now.
- Causality Manipulation and Probability Manipulation (The Sisters can cause war on the slightest vibration of their threads,[84] being able to create brand new possibilities on a whim[85] and being able to change the outcomes of wars.[82] They can easily create whatever outcomes they wish for their mortal and God subjects just by slight tugs and strokes on their Threads of Fate.[87] They also regularly detect vibrations in said threads and counter them with their own to produce their own desired outcome for their subjects.[90] Their tinkering with Iris's fate caused dissension on Olympus as a mere side-effect.[91] Disrupting the Loom of Fate would free mankind from their bondage to Fate and Destiny[89])
Causing war does not require altering the past, especially not in this case, where Atropos plots out a series of events that would occur in the future. It also does not alter the odds of something happening, instead decreeing a set outcome (a “fate”, if you will), which is merely fate manipulation.The Sisters can cause war on the slightest vibration of their threads,[84]
This one is interesting, because altering possibilities is the one thing written here that sounds like it could be probability hax. Unfortunately, the context shoots this possibility (heh) in the foot. Atropos brings up the topic of Kratos and how they ought to observe him. Clotho refutes this by noting that he isn’t very interesting, stating that they could instead create some new monster for gods and humans to couple with, start a war, or spread diseases to alleviate their boredom. In essence, the “so many possibilities” line merely represents the vast range of options the fates have at their disposal for keeping things interesting, just as I could say there are “so many possibilities” for what I’m having for lunch. That doesn’t mean I’m warping probability to my will, of course, and neither are the fates.being able to create brand new possibilities on a whim[85]
Nothing here describes probability or causality manipulation; Yes, these are potentially mechanisms through which events can be manipulated, but the problem is that the fates already possess such a mechanism in the form of fate manipulation. That is how they accomplish more or less everything they do, so it is reasonable to conclude that they manipulate outcomes by changing fate (because the Sisters of Fate typically operate by changing fate).and being able to change the outcomes of wars.[82]
I would say that this is just fate manipulation again, but I don’t even need to do that. The scan itself literally says that Lahkesis was manipulating fate/destiny.They can easily create whatever outcomes they wish for their mortal and God subjects just by slight tugs and strokes on their Threads of Fate.[87]
So they can counteract fates they don’t like and replace them with those of their own design. This is fine, of course, but it also isn’t probability or causality manipulation. This is also another scan where it is explicitly said that fate manipulation, and not some other force, is at play here.They also regularly detect vibrations in said threads and counter them with their own to produce their own desired outcome for their subjects.[90]
This is, yet again, a description of fate manipulation being misconstrued as probability and causality manipulation. It literally says they’re tinkering with fate in the scan, I don’t know how you could possibly get anything but fate manipulation from that.Their tinkering with Iris's fate caused dissension on Olympus as a mere side-effect.[91]
This one’s just funny. Even the justification itself acknowledges this is fatehax, yet somehow pivots to “but it totally isn’t fatehax for some reason!”.Disrupting the Loom of Fate would free mankind from their bondage to Fate and Destiny[89]
The only thing I could find that would support either ability is a statement that one of the sisters could change Kratos’ past. This is fine in a vacuum, but it’s been established that the sisters possess the ability to travel into the past. Kratos himself uses this power to avert his fate; This is likely what was meant by “changing his past”. Not changing it through some magic power to warp the past, but by going there physically and doing the dirty work yourself. This would be a basic function of time travel, and in no way attributable to some sort of causality hax.
Miscellaneous Stuff
Just some things that Planck accepted in the original downgrade thread, but were never applied. These are all straightforward.
- Oceanus' Life Manipulation/Creation - He has this because he has 3000 children. Sex is not an ability on this wiki.
- Persephone's Telekinesis - She can make energy pillars, which has nothing to do with telekinesis.
- Kratos' Resistance to Advanced Non-Physical Interaction - Do I really need to explain this one?