The Great Odyssean Quest to Downgrade God of War ⌈Part 3⌋

[DarkGrath]

Resistance to Memory Manipulation & Mind Manipulation [Kratos, Demigod Key]

At the end of the first God of War, Kratos attempts to free himself from the nightmares that plague his mind by killing himself with the intent to erase his memories in the river Lethe. His profile says he resisted this (or that he should resist it, but who cares), which is made evident by the fact that he retains his memories after Athena raises him from the body of water he jumped into. The obvious problem is that Kratos never entered the Lethe. The novel specifies that he fell into the Aegean sea (presumably, he would’ve killed himself, and then erase his memories in the Lethe after he arrived in the Underworld).

There is the argument that the Lethe is a part of the river Styx, and Kratos is shown to resist the Styx's negative effects with the soul of Hades. The problem with that is that the Lethe is merely a subsection of the Styx, and we have no way to confirm if Kratos actually entered that specific part of it. It'd be like saying someone who goes to Ukraine must logically resist radiation manipulation, because Chernobyl is a part of Ukraine.

This is fine. If the river Lethe is what erases memories, and this ability is indexed due to erroneous information that he entered the river Lethe, then it should be removed.

Mind BFR/Resistance to Mind BFR [Persephone & Kratos, Demigod Key]

This is from how Persephone can supposedly banish Kratos’ mind to another world. Looking at the in-game context though… She tells Kratos to leave the world behind and be with his wife. I believe most people would view this as something akin to a daydream or hallucination, where Kratos “leaves behind this world” (in a metaphorical sense) and enters a better world found within his imagination. I do not think many people would assume that this involves Persephone banishing Kratos’ consciousness to an alternate reality. All the language used in regards to leaving this world behind is equally applicable when it comes to experiencing some kind of vision, hallucination, or other mental influence that makes it appear as though you are no longer a part of the world (for example, a statement such as this could apply if one were high on some sort of hallucinogenic drug).

If this were truly BFR, then it would imply the existence of an alternate dimension where Kratos’ wife never died, and this is something that is never brought up again even though Persephone can apparently just send people there at will. That seems like a far more extreme conclusion to come to than “Persephone made Kratos see his dead wife to put him at ease so he’d let his guard down”.

Yes, this should be fine to remove. It's not a completely implausible interpretation of the ability, but it'd be a pretty substantial and largely unfounded stretch.

Resistance to Status Effect Inducement [Kratos, God Key]

This stems from Kratos “resisting” Helios’ light. Which he does not actually do. He is explicitly pushed back and stunned by it, and can only walk forward if he blocks out the light with his hands (if he ever lowers his hands, he is immediately pushed back and stunned again).

Considering that the effect of Helios' light seems to be tied to being blinded by it, and Kratos can only defend against it by blocking the light out from his vision, this should not constitute a resistance and should be fine to remove.

Body Puppetry & Death Manipulation [Sirens]

Sirens are assumed to be able to control one's body physically due to this scan. For further context, sirens are able to induce emotions, particularly lust, in those who hear their song. What is interpreted as them puppeteering Kratos' body directly is moreso him acting on his emotions, being driven by his lust to seek out the sirens and presumably have sex with them. This is a common consequence of manipulating one's emotions, as an individual's actions are of course governed by their state of mind; Making someone depressed and causing them to commit suicide, making someone angry and causing them to physically lash out at an ally, or making someone calm and causing them to stop fighting and drop their weapons are all possible examples of empathic manipulation "manipulating" one's physical body, though this is not body puppetry and is, again, merely how the human mind works.

There is, however, the argument that the author specified that Kratos' body was being affected, so it cannot merely be empathic manipulation. However, describing one's body as acting on its own is a common way of depicting intense feelings of lust and desire in a character, and isn't even incongruent with real life. You can see this depicted in a substantial amount of written erotica, particularly fanfiction (though I will avoid quoting any here for obvious reasons; just know that I am well versed on this matter), and the author is likely aware of this and merely wrote the scene in this way to depict how ravenously horny Kratos is (the phrase "wanting them as he had never wanted another before" makes this clear).

Death manipulation is even more straightforward. The source shows sirens screeching at such a precise pitch that they made people's heads explode. This is explicitly a form of explosion manipulation, yet it is erroneously listed as death manipulation at the same time. They do not kill through some ability to just make things die without explanation; The explanation is that they make people's heads explode, which kills them (as things tend to die without their heads [citation needed]). I have read through the various manuals, guidebooks, and novelizations that exist, and none provide support for death hax beyond the instance of sirens blowing people up. This is a simple matter of a mislabeled ability.

Those who are accepted as resisting the effects of sirens (Kratos and Zeus) would lose resistance to these abilities, or at least have the justifications altered so that any references to sirens are removed. Death manipulation would be replaced with explosion manipulation, where applicable.

This should be fine to remove. It just sounds like Empathic Manipulation affecting Kratos' body, not direct puppetry. And I have no idea why that would have been listed as Death Manipulation.

However, describing one's body as acting on its own is a common way of depicting intense feelings of lust and desire in a character, and isn't even incongruent with real life. You can see this depicted in a substantial amount of written erotica, particularly fanfiction (though I will avoid quoting any here for obvious reasons; just know that I am well versed on this matter)

(I will leave the erotic fanfiction claim to the expert on the matter.)

In summary, I agree with all proposed removals.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

This should be fine to remove. It just sounds like Empathic Manipulation affecting Kratos' body, not direct puppetry. And I have no idea why that would have been listed as Death Manipulation.

Death manipulation comes from this scan, actually. Apologies if I didn't make it clear that the claims for body puppetry and death manipulation were from two different sources.

 

[DarkGrath]

Death manipulation comes from this scan, actually. Apologies if I didn't make it clear that the claims for body puppetry and death manipulation were from two different sources.

No, you did. I was aware they were two different topics with different justifications - my phrasing was just ambiguous. My apologies for the confusion.

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

I have took the full time to read. I agree. Im not even sure how these were accepted #tbh

 

[Omnificence]

I have took the full time to read. I agree. Im not even sure how these were accepted #tbh

Probably abusing the FRA train.

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

Probably abusing the FRA train.

i mean i guess its possible but i wouldnt think its wise to make an baseless assumption. Please know that.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

We've entered grace (well, we will in 20 minutes), and there are no objections to the thread. Is it fine if I apply the edits now?

 

[Deagonx]

We've entered grace (well, we will in 20 minutes), and there are no objections to the thread. Is it fine if I apply the edits now?

Yes, that's fine.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Edits have been applied, I'll wait a week before posting the next one. This can be closed now.