The Future of FC/OC (Major Changes to Policy and Content Standards)

[Phoenks]

What I mean is that there’s some people who can’t even follow the current site rules, but if the quality standards is something like insane sonic then that seems fine to me.

Why the heck would we cater to people who won't even follow the site rules and formatting? That doesn't even have much to do with writing quality or page quality. That is purely just the unwillingness to even try at all.

Insane Sonic isn't something I find immediately delete-worthy, though I would say users should strive for more.

And, this isn't to say that the Jeff page is the bare minimum or anything. I'm just saying it is a good example.

 

[Flowerguy2]

Question; Since DB! Verse is getting booted and moved to an another wiki, will hosts like Wiz and Boomstick stayed on FCOC or do they get booted along too? Since while they are the host of the show... they're also original characters on their own.

 

[Rayfire]

Why the heck would we cater to people who won't even follow the site rules and formatting? That doesn't even have much to do with writing quality or page quality. That is purely just the unwillingness to even try at all.

Insane Sonic isn't something I find immediately delete-worthy, though I would say users should strive for more.

And, this isn't to say that the Jeff page is the bare minimum or anything. I'm just saying it is a good example.

I never said we should cater to people who break the rules… I’m just saying that setting the bar TOO high would be a bad idea considering how many people either break the current ones, or do the bare minimum when it comes to profiles. (Not saying that’s everyone, just, like, some.)

If insane sonic is alright then I think that’s my concern gone, to me that looks just fine as a profile

I have also updated the Standard Format to give an outline on things that could be written on the page. I believe this could help people who are very new to character development. Asking a number of questions that users can ponder upon and explore when making a page.

I’ll take a look in a sec

 

[Phoenks]

Question; Since DB! Verse is getting booted and moved to an another wiki, will hosts like Wiz and Boomstick stayed on FCOC or do they get booted along too? Since while they are the host of the show... they're also original characters on their own.

I might make exceptions for Wiz and Boomstick, since there is actually a LOT more you could add to them. They have nearly 200 episodes where a lot of their lore and history is indirectly explored. They also have unique and established personalities and character. There's even an entire Wiz vs Boomstick podcast which is probably "canon."

Though, in their current states, they definitely need to be edited. Profiles aren't very good atm, nor are they up to date on stuff.

Yeah, I'd have no problem with Wiz and Boomstick being on here.

 

[Phoenks]

I’m just saying that setting the bar TOO high would be a bad idea considering how many people either break the current ones, or do the bare minimum when it comes to profiles. (Not saying that’s everyone, just, like, some.)

That's just catering, though.

You're saying "standards shouldn't be higher because of the people that don't even follow the current standards."

Why should standards have anything to do with the people who don't even want to follow them in the first place?

Also, the standards aren't even high, smh. Rayfire, I promise you most people could get up to standard. It's not that frightening.

It's when you get to Tiers 2, 1, and 0 that things are reasonably "tough." I'd say.

 

[Flowerguy2]

I might make exceptions for Wiz and Boomstick, since there is actually a LOT more you could add to them. They have nearly 200 episodes where a lot of their lore and history is indirectly explored. They also have unique and established personalities and character. There's even an entire Wiz vs Boomstick podcast which is probably "canon."

Though, in their current states, they definitely need to be edited. Profiles aren't very good atm, nor are they up to date on stuff.

Yeah, I'd have no problem with Wiz and Boomstick being on here.

Aight, got it.

 

[El_rapero_de_tf2]

I don't think this is something most minors could do

ay man (first of all i made the changes in the pastra's jeff profile) not to be that guy but i'm 15, and when i made the page from which i got the information i was 14

but i will say something, the standard format says "optional, but reccomended", and the way it's presented by phoenks makes it look like it's an obligatory field to add. Of course this could be easily fixed by the format being uploaded to make the fields obligatory or just keeping them as entirely optional instead of "optional but reccomended"

a lot of characters wouldn't even have that much to be written in their profiles. Let's take Forsaken characters as an example, who don't have much lore and that only have their personalities shown in very few ocassions, just being fun characters that one uses to escape a killer or kill as one.

 

[Phoenks]

a lot of characters wouldn't even have that much to be written in their profiles. Let's take Forsaken characters as an example, who don't have much lore and that only have their personalities shown in very few ocassions, just being fun characters that one uses to escape a killer or kill as one.

We're probably going to move away from indexing verses that simply lack anything to really index.

I'm okay with verses having characters who are more developed, and then some others who are one-offs or simply not that involved. Like, if there's some monsters that people face one time and things of that nature. I don't care if those kinds of profiles are more vsbw-esque in nature.

Though, if that applies to whole verse, especially in the realm of stuff that isn't user-made (Where the user themselves can't develop said profiles), we'll probably pass on indexing things of that nature.

 

[Rayfire]

ay man (first of all i made the changes in the pastra's jeff profile) not to be that guy but i'm 15, and when i made the page from which i got the information i was 14

I’m not saying newcomers or minors can’t make good profiles at all lol, but in general the younger or newer you are to this sort of thing, the more likely you are to not meet the profile standards, and i know 13 year old me can’t make something like Jeff lol, so it’s down to the person. You and I are 2 out of thousands of examples.

But that’s kind of why I think something like insane sonic is fitting for an acceptable profile quality, it ticks all the boxes, at least for me, and isn’t too difficult for anyone to do. Phoenks seems to agree that something that is alright so I’m not really that concerned about the quality standards right now.

 

[Rayfire]

That's just catering, though.

You're saying "standards shouldn't be higher because of the people that don't even follow the current standards."

Why should standards have anything to do with the people who don't even want to follow them in the first place?

Also, the standards aren't even high, smh. Rayfire, I promise you most people could get up to standard. It's not that frightening.

It's when you get to Tiers 2, 1, and 0 that things are reasonably "tough." I'd say.

I never said “we shouldn’t raise the standards at all” either, in fact I supported it to some degree in my first reply here iirc. I just think the standards should be to a reasonable enough degree that anyone can make a profile that’s deemed acceptable, even if they are new, otherwise our already small wiki isn’t gonna grow at all. I was referring to people not following the current standards because a lot of newcomers here don’t put in much effort into profiles to begin with. They want to do the bare minimum so we shouldn’t expect too much out of them. I suppose I could have worded it better though.

For the third time, if something like insane sonic is acceptable, then I don’t really have a problem with the quality of profiles

 

[Sinpokefan]

Anyways. From what I'm seeing I'm likely gonna be able to do the characters that I wanted. Since it seemingly fits the new rules. (Vastly differently from the original ones. And with settings far from the original settings.) As they took either far in the past (Jonathan's journal). Or far into the future (Maxification II) from the original ones.

 

[Phoenks]

Edited the Site Rules page a bit, going into some more detail on the quality standards and some exceptions.

Also, added a standard for scans and references for pages that aren't user-made.

This won't immediately affect all profiles that do not have scans (Not gonna just delete everything that doesn't have scans on it right this moment). However, going forward, we'd like for pages where the Creator's word of god doesn't apply to have those as evidence.

If you have any profiles for characters that aren't of your own creation which don't currently have scans, I recommend you add them as soon as possible.

They're going to be treated more like VSBW pages from now on. Since they're within the public eye, other people will also be able to edit and contribute to them if they have evidence to back up changes they want to make and such.

Obviously, this doesn't apply to stuff created by users, since Word of God is used to make those profiles typically. And some stuff may be private / not fully actualized into a real work of fiction yet.

Though, this isn't to say you can't add scans to that stuff if you want to. DMUA has done this for a lot of his pages and I think that makes them look more professional. (Makes up for some of them not having the most character info, I think)

-

On the topic of non-user made original characters being fully banned. I've changed my mind on that.

I think the higher quality and content standards will effectively root out all the stuff we don't really want to index on here anyways.

Still gotta ask staff for opinion though. I'd like it to be unanimous.

@JohnConquest1 I'd prefer our decisions on this to be done in the public eye for right now. Transparency is better here.

@Kanogami @Another_Council

 

[JohnConquest1]

Thats fine.

My lack of replies on this issue has stemmed from the worst timing of personal issues and illnesses happening right after these policies were announced, my apologies for that.

 

[Vyfourthaccount]

There goes my plans to scaling all of Creepypasta fan shit

 

[Agnaa]

There goes my plans to scaling all of Creepypasta fan shit

You can still do that on VsDebating Wiki!

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

You can still do that on VsDebating Wiki!

Staff: Only Bambu and one random.

Lmao

 

[Vyfourthaccount]

You can still do that on VsDebating Wiki!

The scaling was done badly there and I prefer vsbw tiering system over vs debating one

 

[Ebihara]

Staff: Only Bambu and one random.

looks like bambu is inactive on it according to his last post on it. and the other staff member hasnt seemed to do anything in months.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

yeah probably don't direct anybody there. it was my VSBW dump when I was banned, it's left only as an emergency dump (and if people need to test things).

I'd give people staff capabilities if they wanted to take over for whatever purpose but on its own, it's pretty bad.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Question, I've asked this on a Q&A thread, but how does comedic and funny verses degrade the wiki? Why can't people write well written comedy verses on here if the purpose of these changes is like, good writing when even as stated, SMG4 also has bad writing.

And since I'm not really staff, I would like to get an overview of how hard it would be to try and hold quality control in this area.

 

[JohnConquest1]

Question, I've asked this on a Q&A thread, but how does comedic and funny verses degrade the wiki? Why can't people write well written comedy verses on here if the purpose of these changes is like, good writing when even as stated, SMG4 also has bad writing.

This is admittedly pretty tough to answer.

It isn't that we want to outright discourage silliness but rather that said silliness be more tempered and mindful of Joke Battles Wiki. The latter being extremely relevant for SEO issues that are almost entirely outside of our ability to influence.

Another slightly more straightforward reason is properly delineating the narratives "true focus" isn't something that's in our best interest to do for every story. ala having an approval thread.

And since I'm not really staff, I would like to get an overview of how hard it would be to try and hold quality control in this area.

It's a vast subjective spectrum that isn't beholden to one clear cut example for very long.

 

[Withersoul_235]

Yeah, sorry but this is silly for reasons mentioned before. It seems like a pretty self-destructive plan that, clearly, very little people actually like. I find it difficult to understand why this is still being pushed for in wake of such opposition.

A fifth wiki? Eh, sure, I guess. But if FC/OC goes quiet and grinds to a halt, don't blame that wiki's existence.
Either way, I completely disagree with shaving off half of the site.

On the topic of non-user made original characters being fully banned. I've changed my mind on that.

I think the higher quality and content standards will effectively root out all the stuff we don't really want to index on here anyways.

@Phoenks That's good to see in principle, but what would these higher quality standard entail? What will be the legal distinction between "this gets to stay" and "this gets booted"?

 

[ExSENNA]

Wow. I wasn't aware of this existing until now. It seems I am really not active.

The changes seem fine and in line with what the staff wishes to do and aspire to and what this site they believe is intended to be.

Staff is willing to go with it even at the expense of its possible demise due to already existing heavy backlash and likely abandonment by a large chunk of its already small community caused by the backlash.

Since there doesn't seem to be a way to keep the pages that are now not up to standards (A major example is DEATH BATTLE!), the only alternative is the 5th wiki.

 

[Vyfourthaccount]

Wow. I wasn't aware of this existing until now. It seems I am really not active.

The changes seem fine and in line with what the staff wishes to do and aspire to and what this site they believe is intended to be.

Staff is willing to go with it even at the expense of its possible demise due to already existing heavy backlash and likely abandonment by a large chunk of its already small community caused by the backlash.

Since there doesn't seem to be a way to keep the pages that are now not up to standards (A major example is DEATH BATTLE!), the only alternative is the 5th wiki.

What the heck is a 5th wiki? Don't we already have alt battles?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

This is admittedly pretty tough to answer.

It isn't that we want to outright discourage silliness but rather that said silliness be more tempered and mindful of Joke Battles Wiki. The latter being extremely relevant for SEO issues that are almost entirely outside of our ability to influence.

Another slightly more straightforward reason is properly delineating the narratives "true focus" isn't something that's in our best interest to do for every story. ala having an approval thread.

I meant SMG4 having good writing (even in it's early memey days). Brain fart. Still doesn't change the outcome. Thanks for the answer.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Jokes on you community leavers. I'm still staying for the gacha cringe and memes that technically have good writing in it.

I'll play devil's advocate and hopefully not accidentally do ragebait shenanigans in a reasonable manner. Anyways, as a person that lacks staff experience, I don't think I have too much of a say on how I could really suggest to improve things in the comedy front. If this going in some other direction most people wouldn't like, I think that's the point? Like, would the staff want a community that involves themselves in profiles that are lower quality or make the wiki lower in quality, or even stray from what the wiki is supposed to be? Don't get me wrong, I love this "haha basement dweller" hobby even in fan fics. Like if the point of all of this powerscaling and debating stuff is "just for fun", then what's exactly wrong with moving some of that fun to another wiki? The rules are here to keep everything in order and safety.

I intentionally remastered Composite Human and Composite Tree on joke battles just to make a point; they're still there (and not gone unlike people during each profile's deletion would like you to believer), you can clog up as many fair matches on each respective profile. It's just people don't care about composites for some reason because "they're deleted on the main site they're from" when in actuallity, they could continue to the main point of why they're invested in composites (matches, making an OP profile, etc). I can make the same point for each of these booted profiles. I don't see why we should keep some profiles that are more detrimental to the site if the staff intentionally doesn't want the same community that would keep said profiles (comedic profiles are the exception to my opinions, but I'm pretty sure JBW would get more attention than it has now with these changes).

 

[ExSENNA]

What the heck is a 5th wiki? Don't we already have alt battles?

It was referred to as 5th wiki previously by other people

 

[Vyfourthaccount]

It was referred to as 5th wiki previously by other people

Oh

 

[Agnaa]

What the heck is a 5th wiki? Don't we already have alt battles?

Alt Battles doesn't want to include some of the stuff that's getting nuked from FC/OC, and stuff from it isn't really used in on-site matches.

An FC/OC user is setting up a 5th wiki to host things that would get deleted, and to enable matches on FC/OC with them.

 

[Vyfourthaccount]

Alt Battles doesn't want to include some of the stuff that's getting nuked from FC/OC, and stuff from it isn't really used in on-site matches.

An FC/OC user is setting up a 5th wiki to host things that would get deleted, and to enable matches on FC/OC with them.

Insane. Alt battles was literally Made for things that Got deleted from vsbw or FC/OC. Why not accept?

 

[Agnaa]

Insane. Alt battles was literally Made for things that Got deleted from vsbw or FC/OC. Why not accept?

Apparently, it was meant for official content that VSBW doesn't want because of some silly standards.

Fanfiction-type stuff like DB isn't something they want.

 

[Ebihara]

Apparently, it was meant for official content that VSBW doesn't want because of some silly standards.

Fanfiction-type stuff like DB isn't something they want.

feels really silly when basically the whole reason it was created IIRC was for SCP stuff which isnt any different in my eyes. (fan fiction)

 

[Vyfourthaccount]

Apparently, it was meant for official content that VSBW doesn't want because of some silly standards.

Fanfiction-type stuff like DB isn't something they want.

I remember they were transferring stuff like Minecraft mods and skibidi toilet (before it become more official) into alt battles. Honestly I think a fifth wiki is unnecessary. It'd just put more work for admins

 

[Vyfourthaccount]

I remember they were transferring stuff like Minecraft mods and skibidi toilet (before it become more official) into alt battles. Honestly I think a fifth wiki is unnecessary. It'd just put more work for admins

They also have verses Such as AVA which have Minecraft as some of the settings so also fan fiction

 

[Agnaa]

They apparently think AVA's Minecraft episode is a bad reason to consider it fanfiction, but that DB's premise makes it fine to consider it fanfiction.

 

[Vyfourthaccount]

They apparently think AVA's Minecraft episode is a bad reason to consider it fanfiction, but that DB's premise makes it fine to consider it fanfiction.

Vsbw and their shenanigans smh

 

[Phoenks]

I still don't know what Joke Battles is for so...

 

[Vyfourthaccount]

I still don't know what Joke Battles is for so...

for Jokes. I honestly find it useless.it should just become a Sandbox version of vsbw instead

 

[Agnaa]

I still don't know what Joke Battles is for so...

Jokes about battleboarding/indexing or members of the community. Also for topics which are funny due to being taken seriously, but I think they may be wanting to phase those out.

 

[Phoenks]

Cool, so just completely useless, then. Great. Guess they really will need that wiki.