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It has a MOVIE and is in FORTNITE just accept our fate
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The Future of FC/OC (Major Changes to Policy and Content Standards)
- Thread starter Phoenks
- Start date
- 16,306
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No. We only allow such things if the original rightsholders retroactively give permission (as happened with Red vs Blue).
ThePrimalHunter
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I get why these changes are happening & where it's coming from, but I idk if it's really the right choice here
Firstly, it seems like almost no active users actually like this rule, but yet staff is still going through with this anyways. This kind of shows to me that the staff at FC/OC really doesn't give a shit about what the community actually wants, just what other staff wants, which is NOT a good look. You have 3 straight pages of nothing but backlash & there hasn't been a single edit to anything to try and find a middle ground. It seems like staff is saying "nope, we don't care if this is unpopular, we're doing it anyways, f*ck you."
If your goal is to just shoot FC/OC in the foot & give it a reputation of "staff only cares about what staff thinks, everyone else can go f*ck themselves" then this is the perfect way to do it. Hell, one of the staff in this very thread said almost exactly "I don't gaf if everyone here hates this, so long as I don't get any more Skibidi Toilet profiles on this wiki." You guys might as well just say "This entire wiki is just a circlejerk for staff to do what they want with it, not for the very people that use it to actually enjoy it, because what we want is far more important than what our users want cause we're staff & we can do that." If you guys want what's best for this wiki, I think that having litteraly everyone leave because they hate your choices isn't better for the wiki than having profiles like The Earwig Creature & Sonic.exe on it
This entire thing also doesn't take into account that the wiki has kind of evolved. The users of the wiki don't see it as just a place for them to put their own self-made FC/OC characters, but also a place to put their favorite FC/OC characters from other works. Example: I really liked Avocado Animation's MrBeast trilogy, so I made a profile of him, and a lot of other users of the wiki have done the same with other works they love. The users of the wiki have changed the wiki itself from just a place to only post their own original OCs to also include other peoples OCs, and I think that the wiki should evolve to what the actual users of it want, rather than staff forcing it to be what they want it to be. (It should be of note that I don't think this means that staff should just let users do whatever they want on the site & have it be a free-reign "post whatever you want" wiki, and that's why stuff such as tier 1/0 evaluations exist, which I fully support. But I think staff should be willing to accept that the users of the site (the very people that keep the site alive & running and the people that the site was made for) don't see it how staff sees it anymore, and the wiki should change to reflect that, rather than the wiki actively going against the wishes of the various people on the site)
One thing that also rubs me wrong is that if the OC comes from something you didn't create, it gets removed, no exceptions, even if you credit the og creator. However, if it's from a fanfiction that you didn't create, it's fair game? Fanfiction you didn't write are allowed so long as it "focus on highlighting the intricacies and complexities of these spin-offs, demonstrating what makes them genuinely unique, interesting, and creative compared to their canon counterparts and inspirations" but if you have an OC that does the exact same thing (is genuinely unique, interesting, creative, has their own full story, ect), but comes from something you didn't make, it's deleted with no exceptions? Even though Avocado Animation's MrBeast Animated Series on YT is plenty unique, has its own story, characters, world, and is heavy as all hell, because I wasn't the one that wrote & made it (even though litteraly in the title I gave credit to the creator), it instantly gets deleted, but stuff like Glitchtale (which afaik the creator isn't active on this wiki & didn't make the profiles) is perfectly okay to be on here because it follows the exact same rules that Avocado Animation's MrBeast series did? That's honestly really f*cking stupid. Why does fan content get such a pass but OC content doesn't? Volt12121 said it best earlier in the thread
I'm going to be really honest here, fanfictions you didn't create still being allowed to be uploaded to the wiki feels like something JohnConquest1 added so that way they could keep Fallout: Equestria on the wiki, which in my eyes, is an abuse of power. Delete all works not made by the author except for one of the staff's favorite projects, that gets to stay. I'm not saying this is what JohnConquest1 actually did, because idk what the decision making being this was (because this decision making didn't involve the users of the wiki at all which is also pretty iffy because we get litteraly no say, which is also not a good look imo), but from a non-staff member looking in, I can't help but feel like Fallout Equestria's biggest supporter being high-level staff had something to do with it getting to stay
I think that if litteraly all of your users of your website are saying that they hate something you're doing, maybe you should stop and reconsider for a second if this is really the right course of action for your site
Firstly, it seems like almost no active users actually like this rule, but yet staff is still going through with this anyways. This kind of shows to me that the staff at FC/OC really doesn't give a shit about what the community actually wants, just what other staff wants, which is NOT a good look. You have 3 straight pages of nothing but backlash & there hasn't been a single edit to anything to try and find a middle ground. It seems like staff is saying "nope, we don't care if this is unpopular, we're doing it anyways, f*ck you."
If your goal is to just shoot FC/OC in the foot & give it a reputation of "staff only cares about what staff thinks, everyone else can go f*ck themselves" then this is the perfect way to do it. Hell, one of the staff in this very thread said almost exactly "I don't gaf if everyone here hates this, so long as I don't get any more Skibidi Toilet profiles on this wiki." You guys might as well just say "This entire wiki is just a circlejerk for staff to do what they want with it, not for the very people that use it to actually enjoy it, because what we want is far more important than what our users want cause we're staff & we can do that." If you guys want what's best for this wiki, I think that having litteraly everyone leave because they hate your choices isn't better for the wiki than having profiles like The Earwig Creature & Sonic.exe on it
This entire thing also doesn't take into account that the wiki has kind of evolved. The users of the wiki don't see it as just a place for them to put their own self-made FC/OC characters, but also a place to put their favorite FC/OC characters from other works. Example: I really liked Avocado Animation's MrBeast trilogy, so I made a profile of him, and a lot of other users of the wiki have done the same with other works they love. The users of the wiki have changed the wiki itself from just a place to only post their own original OCs to also include other peoples OCs, and I think that the wiki should evolve to what the actual users of it want, rather than staff forcing it to be what they want it to be. (It should be of note that I don't think this means that staff should just let users do whatever they want on the site & have it be a free-reign "post whatever you want" wiki, and that's why stuff such as tier 1/0 evaluations exist, which I fully support. But I think staff should be willing to accept that the users of the site (the very people that keep the site alive & running and the people that the site was made for) don't see it how staff sees it anymore, and the wiki should change to reflect that, rather than the wiki actively going against the wishes of the various people on the site)
One thing that also rubs me wrong is that if the OC comes from something you didn't create, it gets removed, no exceptions, even if you credit the og creator. However, if it's from a fanfiction that you didn't create, it's fair game? Fanfiction you didn't write are allowed so long as it "focus on highlighting the intricacies and complexities of these spin-offs, demonstrating what makes them genuinely unique, interesting, and creative compared to their canon counterparts and inspirations" but if you have an OC that does the exact same thing (is genuinely unique, interesting, creative, has their own full story, ect), but comes from something you didn't make, it's deleted with no exceptions? Even though Avocado Animation's MrBeast Animated Series on YT is plenty unique, has its own story, characters, world, and is heavy as all hell, because I wasn't the one that wrote & made it (even though litteraly in the title I gave credit to the creator), it instantly gets deleted, but stuff like Glitchtale (which afaik the creator isn't active on this wiki & didn't make the profiles) is perfectly okay to be on here because it follows the exact same rules that Avocado Animation's MrBeast series did? That's honestly really f*cking stupid. Why does fan content get such a pass but OC content doesn't? Volt12121 said it best earlier in the thread
In stuff like Tier 1/0 threads, it makes sense to have different & more relaxed rules for fanfictions since they're already based off of pre-existing works with pre-existing cosmologies, but this doesn't make much sense. Either treat them equally & delete the Fallout: Equestria series as well since the og creator didn't add them, or let things stay on the wiki
I'm going to be really honest here, fanfictions you didn't create still being allowed to be uploaded to the wiki feels like something JohnConquest1 added so that way they could keep Fallout: Equestria on the wiki, which in my eyes, is an abuse of power. Delete all works not made by the author except for one of the staff's favorite projects, that gets to stay. I'm not saying this is what JohnConquest1 actually did, because idk what the decision making being this was (because this decision making didn't involve the users of the wiki at all which is also pretty iffy because we get litteraly no say, which is also not a good look imo), but from a non-staff member looking in, I can't help but feel like Fallout Equestria's biggest supporter being high-level staff had something to do with it getting to stay
I think that if litteraly all of your users of your website are saying that they hate something you're doing, maybe you should stop and reconsider for a second if this is really the right course of action for your site
Can we quit pretending that FC/OC Vs Battles Wiki is "first and foremost a place to put aspiring writers on the right path to learning about content creation, writing creative fiction as a hobby, and to help them learn the intricacies of mediawiki"? Because that's not how it's used or seen at all.
I hate to say this but to most people, powerscaling is seen as a loser & virgin hobby (at least when it comes to stuff like tiering & doing math for the characters. Everyone & their mother has wondered who would win between character X & Y, but most people don't give it much more though other than "Character X seems stronger so they win", it's when you start to get into tiering & battleboarding that people start thinking its weird). I know this firsthand. Everytime I tell someone, even super close friends I've known for almost my entire life, that I'm super into powerscaling & it's my hyperfixation, I'm typically met with not so positive feedback. The internet sees powerscaling as a neckbeard, lives in his moms basement type activity. And while that's not true because powerscaling is just a hobby and anyone can enjoy it, that's the stereotype people think of when they see or hear something along the lines of powerscaling. Bring up powerscaling to one of your less nerdy friends & watch them immidietley not give a shit.
Most amature writers not into powerscaling aren't going to look at this site & say "Wow! A place where I can upload my own OCs and have people look at them!" because there's a million different websites where they can do that. They'll think "ew, powerscaling, who cares about that" and move onto one of the other million different sites where people can post their OCs and have people look at them.
This is pretty evident because a good chunk of the people that are members of FC/OC are also active members of Vs Battles Wiki, because this site is for powerscalers who also enjoy writing stories, not just amature authors that want to get better at writing. If this site really was "first and foremost a place to put aspiring writers on the right path to learning about content creation, writing creative fiction as a hobby, and to help them learn the intricacies of mediawiki", it wouldn't be a powerscaling site. Not only that, but if the main goal of the wiki is so that aspiring writers can learn about content creation, maybe the FIRST WORDS of the FRONT PAGE OF THE WIKI shouldn't be "DO YOU LIKE VS DEBATING?" Or, you know, maybe don't have the words VS BATTLES WIKI in the TITLE OF THE WEBSITE, and if it was a site mainly about getting better at writing, it wouldn't be a sister site to ONE OF IF NOT THE BIGGEST & MOST WELL KNOWN POWERSCALING SITE EVER. This is either really shitty marketing or staff doesn't even know the main use of their own site, another tally on the not a good look for staff board.
Now yeah, it's not like this site is just a VS Site & nothing more, but you guys are acting like its main pourpose is a writing advice website. It's not. Most of the writing advice I see happen for peoples characters happens on the Discord. You guys are pretending like the site is something its not. It has always been a powerscaling site, just with peoples own characters rather than official characters. If people wanted to just get writing advice on their verses & characters, there are 10,000,000 different better sites than this one that don't involve them having to learn or get into powerscaling
I hate to say this but to most people, powerscaling is seen as a loser & virgin hobby (at least when it comes to stuff like tiering & doing math for the characters. Everyone & their mother has wondered who would win between character X & Y, but most people don't give it much more though other than "Character X seems stronger so they win", it's when you start to get into tiering & battleboarding that people start thinking its weird). I know this firsthand. Everytime I tell someone, even super close friends I've known for almost my entire life, that I'm super into powerscaling & it's my hyperfixation, I'm typically met with not so positive feedback. The internet sees powerscaling as a neckbeard, lives in his moms basement type activity. And while that's not true because powerscaling is just a hobby and anyone can enjoy it, that's the stereotype people think of when they see or hear something along the lines of powerscaling. Bring up powerscaling to one of your less nerdy friends & watch them immidietley not give a shit.
Most amature writers not into powerscaling aren't going to look at this site & say "Wow! A place where I can upload my own OCs and have people look at them!" because there's a million different websites where they can do that. They'll think "ew, powerscaling, who cares about that" and move onto one of the other million different sites where people can post their OCs and have people look at them.
This is pretty evident because a good chunk of the people that are members of FC/OC are also active members of Vs Battles Wiki, because this site is for powerscalers who also enjoy writing stories, not just amature authors that want to get better at writing. If this site really was "first and foremost a place to put aspiring writers on the right path to learning about content creation, writing creative fiction as a hobby, and to help them learn the intricacies of mediawiki", it wouldn't be a powerscaling site. Not only that, but if the main goal of the wiki is so that aspiring writers can learn about content creation, maybe the FIRST WORDS of the FRONT PAGE OF THE WIKI shouldn't be "DO YOU LIKE VS DEBATING?" Or, you know, maybe don't have the words VS BATTLES WIKI in the TITLE OF THE WEBSITE, and if it was a site mainly about getting better at writing, it wouldn't be a sister site to ONE OF IF NOT THE BIGGEST & MOST WELL KNOWN POWERSCALING SITE EVER. This is either really shitty marketing or staff doesn't even know the main use of their own site, another tally on the not a good look for staff board.
Now yeah, it's not like this site is just a VS Site & nothing more, but you guys are acting like its main pourpose is a writing advice website. It's not. Most of the writing advice I see happen for peoples characters happens on the Discord. You guys are pretending like the site is something its not. It has always been a powerscaling site, just with peoples own characters rather than official characters. If people wanted to just get writing advice on their verses & characters, there are 10,000,000 different better sites than this one that don't involve them having to learn or get into powerscaling
ThePrimalHunter
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Side Note:
I do think verses like Skibidi Toilet should be removed, but that's because by this point Skibidi Toilet is an official thing on its own. It was in Fortnite for gods sake. It's not an FC anymore, it's something else entirely
Death Battle I've always been super iffy on if they should stay here, but honestly, with the amount of work & detication put into them, I think that at the very least moving them to another site would be best, that way we're not just spitting in the face of everyone that put hours upon hours of work into them and saying "womp womp, sucks to suck"
I do think verses like Skibidi Toilet should be removed, but that's because by this point Skibidi Toilet is an official thing on its own. It was in Fortnite for gods sake. It's not an FC anymore, it's something else entirely
Death Battle I've always been super iffy on if they should stay here, but honestly, with the amount of work & detication put into them, I think that at the very least moving them to another site would be best, that way we're not just spitting in the face of everyone that put hours upon hours of work into them and saying "womp womp, sucks to suck"
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For the record the Earwing Creature can just be on vs wiki since Pleasant Inn has 2.6 million views
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I've been allowed to make a 5th wiki where the deleted profiles can still be indexed and used for interwiki matchups, (Similairly to alt battles) so that at least makes both sides happy. But while phoenks has cleared some of this up on discord (Mostly the quality changes) i'm still heavily against this going through as well. Getting rid of a good chunk of your community by deleting all these popular verses still isn't a good move at all, and it's clear that staff hasn't considered how this will only harm our already small community. I think us users care about this wiki more than they do, most of these changes won't be worth it at all. Without the 5th wiki this site will be basically done for.
Funny how this was basically ignored...
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Me personally I am excited for the 6th wiki one day.
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Nah, joke battles is too dead to get an archive wiki
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There are only 3 currently
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Alt Battles Wiki is a thing, so there's 4 atm
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Don't forget about Outlier Battles Wiki!
ThePrimalHunter
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The compromise is litteraly "get the f*ck out of here if you don't like it"
That's not a compromise, that's just getting rid of people that don't like your choices
ThePrimalHunter
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I've been told it doesn't qualify, but if it can go to Vs Battles Wiki, I'd be happy with that as it always has been more of a main site character imo
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Well, i mean, this is still far better than without the 5th wiki, cause the FC's that are going to be deleted make up a lot of the debating side of this community. We'll still be allowed to use the deleted profiles in interwiki matchups so long as they aren't indexed on the main fc/oc.
It's also better than peoples' work just being lost which is also a huge problem with these changes. Unless the mods listen to us users and don't do anything other than up the page quality standards a bit, I think this is the best outcome for us users who want the community to actually, y’know, live
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Why not just allow the new wiki to host all the profiles that arent being allowed anymore? if a large amount of the community is being alienated why not just give all the profiles that are being lost a home.
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You're missing the point
You're still effectively kicking majority of the community out by nuking all these pages. This is like saying "Well I called an ambulance, so me shooting you is water under the bridge yah?"
There would be no need for a fifth wiki if there was an actual compromise.
Now what that compromise is, I have no clue, since evidently this is "staff and the user base have different views on what this site is"
But this fifth wiki idea is highly dismissive of people. If you delete a pages just to shove them into some other place that doesn't encourage people to keep working on their stuff or interact with the remains of the community (And as a SCP supporter, I can tell you this type of action is insanely demotivating)
Eden_Warlock99
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Don't know how bad or good the current SMG4 pages are, but I don't see why we'd ban the verse itself from here, modern SMG4 content is pretty story-focused, from what've seen at least (My knowledge basically just extends to the Mr. Puzzle antics).
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If staff don't want to listen to the community maybe just effectively defecting and moving the profiles over that are getting removed is the play? They seem to be interested more in storytelling/writing part of it and there seems to be a good amount of people who are interested in power scaling/indexing and the staff have a very rigid view of what they want the wiki to be and that doesnt fit into that.
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It’s not like it would be exactly like alt battles, just somewhat similair
I don’t see why they can’t be updated if the staff are allowing them to still be used for versus matchups, that’s kind of an important part of that. If they just aren’t on the main wiki then that doesn’t stop new death battle profiles from being made there, for example. It’s not even seperate in the sense that it has its own discord or anything either, it’s pretty much shared with fc/oc. I say that still being able to have these profiles and also still use them for half their purpose (Versus threads) is far better than not having these profiles indexed and updated at all, and having staff destroy it’s own wiki.
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the movie likely will be allowed on, as they'll change stuff like g toilet, fortnite's already on vsbw so its version of that is fine too.
THE ORIGINAL THO.
no
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I do think the official ones and the derivatives that are of a high enough quality (like, the ones with an actual game attached to them and aren't just Twitter OCs that were featured in a Friday Night Funkin' mod) should be allowed to stay.
Same goes for the more serious or serialized Newgrounds Flash animations like with SMBZ which have an actual narrative behind it. It would be very silly if those got moved to another wiki.
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- Thread starter
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I'm uncertain what the compromise could be in this case.
I feel it's not really possible to enforce any level of standard for fan fiction without removing a lot of popular verses like Death Battle in the process.
Our proposed FC standards basically amount to:
1. The work has to have a sufficient amount of context for it to be notable enough for indexing. (At least to the point that it fulfils the second standard)
2. The work must differ significantly from what it's original base was. It can't just be the same character but weaker/stronger. There has to be some big differences in their history, personality, and character.
3. Pages must give us an idea of how they differ and what makes them unique.
These are what I'd consider to be extremely low bar standards for fan fiction indexing on the wiki.
And, in fact, these standards were basically ripped from the old front page. Just elaborated on and highlighted here.
Unfortunately, if we are to equally enforce such a standard, things like Death Battle (Despite me very much enjoying that series), simply do not reach that bar. Being limited to 3-4 minutes of fighting animation where characters are meant to be in-character with their canon-counterparts doesn't exactly allow that.
Anyway, I'll leave this next part to the community here. What should the compromise be? Staff want both content and quality standards, and we want them equally enforced across the entire wiki. We want the site to be smaller, easier to manage, and more focused on specific categories.
I haven't really seen a post here which attempts to give an idea of what the standards should actually be if you want to satisfy both the staff and community.
I'll leave that to the replies.
Also, I am willing to find compromise, but it has to be a compromise. No standards is not a compromise.
Thanks for all the feedback.
I feel it's not really possible to enforce any level of standard for fan fiction without removing a lot of popular verses like Death Battle in the process.
Our proposed FC standards basically amount to:
1. The work has to have a sufficient amount of context for it to be notable enough for indexing. (At least to the point that it fulfils the second standard)
2. The work must differ significantly from what it's original base was. It can't just be the same character but weaker/stronger. There has to be some big differences in their history, personality, and character.
3. Pages must give us an idea of how they differ and what makes them unique.
These are what I'd consider to be extremely low bar standards for fan fiction indexing on the wiki.
And, in fact, these standards were basically ripped from the old front page. Just elaborated on and highlighted here.
Unfortunately, if we are to equally enforce such a standard, things like Death Battle (Despite me very much enjoying that series), simply do not reach that bar. Being limited to 3-4 minutes of fighting animation where characters are meant to be in-character with their canon-counterparts doesn't exactly allow that.
Anyway, I'll leave this next part to the community here. What should the compromise be? Staff want both content and quality standards, and we want them equally enforced across the entire wiki. We want the site to be smaller, easier to manage, and more focused on specific categories.
I haven't really seen a post here which attempts to give an idea of what the standards should actually be if you want to satisfy both the staff and community.
I'll leave that to the replies.
Also, I am willing to find compromise, but it has to be a compromise. No standards is not a compromise.
Thanks for all the feedback.
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We made the changes for reasons like this to begin with. You say that it's because we don't care about the creators that use wiki the wiki to post their works, that isn't the case at all, popular or unpopular. Our goal is to encourage more creative writing amongst our users. I'll draw back to the Death Battle comparison I made earlier. By design that series takes great effort to do a composite of the characters that get featured in the show. The way they are featured in the shows animations are meant to convey the characters in a way that composites the character. This presents a problem in the sense that the character doesn't develop. They stay in a state of limbo in order to accomidate the audiences perception of them. Past the concept of vs debating, what discussions one can have about the character are stringintly limited. All the same you have content such as .EXE OCs which are on the complete opposite ends of the spectrum for Fan Characters. The writer is clearly attempting to make something not specific to a character sheet or bible. However in doing so they often find themselves in failings with regards to originality that could be avoided if more thought were given to fleshing out their character. past Sonic with shark teeth, black irisies, and spooky glitches. It's all the same as any unpopular content that fails to be descriptive past just writing a two sentence description of the character, or content in question.
This is a rock and hard place issue. Any amount of standards changes would've resulted in immediate feedback. It isn't as if our viewers are stagnant but rather they evolve differently through the positions we're in. We do not want the wiki to be a dumping ground for uninspired, unfinished content. Any proposed change to that was going to be met with immediate backlash. It isn't as if we're unaware of our audiences views either. We can see the analytics data Fandom provides to wiki members and among our top pages are Sonic.EXE and Skibiddi. This is because of how most first time users are forced to see the site, and why we have that as announcement in the first place. Even VS Battles Wiki, with everything linked on that wiki's front page, is saddled with this problem. Again it isn't as if we're unaware of this problem but there are factors entirely outside of our control with regards to dealing with it.
Our goal with doing this is to properly credit authors where possible and to not have the pages be treated as an absolute bible or something that can over shadow the creators work. This is something that maybe we can be more open to changing so long as the creator and status of the articles as a whole are fully clarified in some way that's applicable to the work in question. Bear in mind this issue also dabbles heavily into media ownership as well. We want to keep things as above water as possible with regards to OC content and ownership.
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I think at this point all the profiles and verses being removed should just start there own wiki and just counite business as normal on the forums as they are rarely used expect versus threads, every other convo just gets move to discord. Its clear that staff isnt willing to look past there mulish idea of what the wiki should look like. If the staff isn't willing to work with those invested then I dont see why they shouldn't just move on. Its upsetting to see so much work deleted.
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Lmao is clear everyone outside of mods hate this. Honestly this is likely gonna explote in the mods faces
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For those feeling attached to their FC/OC content, Hop understands. They could delete everything under Hop's name and it wouldn't be a problem. Then again, does it count as YouTube original based content? As most of the characters, lore and feats are written on another wiki (which is currently being transitioned to a new website). If others are in a similar ARG-esque position, it may be best to leave those alone.
Then again, as for the amount of content from users, as well as the low effect/variance of the OC's in question, a mass deletion of the slop would please Hop. That stuff wasn't on the wiki back in the day, and it was removed with prejudice for good reason.
All said, Hop is an old head and just wanted to share these thoughts. There are not many people in the same position, and Hop is not involved in those fandoms to the same degree as invested FC/OC users defending against the proposed changes.
"Great care we must take." -Master Yoda
Then again, as for the amount of content from users, as well as the low effect/variance of the OC's in question, a mass deletion of the slop would please Hop. That stuff wasn't on the wiki back in the day, and it was removed with prejudice for good reason.
All said, Hop is an old head and just wanted to share these thoughts. There are not many people in the same position, and Hop is not involved in those fandoms to the same degree as invested FC/OC users defending against the proposed changes.
"Great care we must take." -Master Yoda
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In my case I have two things. One I'm not worried about and one that worries me.
For the one I'm not worried.
It's Jonathans journal. A series with over 3 million views in its first chapter and over 100k in the most recent one.
It started as a fanfic of adventure time and it evolved from there into its own thing.
And that last part is what makes me feel safe about it. Because while the audio series version my not be allowed here.
The creator has started a manga. That removed the fanfic part of it. So the manga version is likely gonna be able to enter vs battles itself.
The one I'm worried about is Maxification II as the main character, Abaddon, is ******* cool. And the series has a lot of lore and the big chapter is estimated to be 45 minutes long. But because new rules he may not be able to enter.
For the one I'm not worried.
It's Jonathans journal. A series with over 3 million views in its first chapter and over 100k in the most recent one.
It started as a fanfic of adventure time and it evolved from there into its own thing.
And that last part is what makes me feel safe about it. Because while the audio series version my not be allowed here.
The creator has started a manga. That removed the fanfic part of it. So the manga version is likely gonna be able to enter vs battles itself.
The one I'm worried about is Maxification II as the main character, Abaddon, is ******* cool. And the series has a lot of lore and the big chapter is estimated to be 45 minutes long. But because new rules he may not be able to enter.
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I feel like making the 5th wiki makes everyone happy, but i do want to add that maybe we should be a bit more relaxed on comedic verses like SMG4, for one? At that point we're just deleting them just because they're funny. In fact, in the OP, SMG4 is being deleted simply because it's "Far too memetic and unserious" even though they still have a story of their own like i've previously mentioned, and it even gets deep at times with characters dying.
Unless it's full of memes completely which is more of a joke battles thing, i heavily disagree with having all the comedic verses moved to the archive wiki. You don't need to be serious all the time to have a good story.
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Does it? I feel there was quite a bit of push back to that idea.
I'll see what some of the others have to say on it, though.
It originally started out as and often still is a very YouTube-poop type of series.
Anyway, I could probably adjust it a bit. Though, bare in mind the pages would still need to be changed to reach quality standard.
On the note of compromises, I've been revaluating the decision to ban all non-user made OC content.
I might go back on that choice, and I'll run it by our other staff. Since Alt Battles probably won't and doesn't even want to take a lot of our OC content, it's probably fine to still index them. Though they'll still have to meet new quality standards.
As for FC standards, a user posted on the discord today of a profile he updated to fit our policy:
Jeff the Killer (Pastra's Rewrite)
Jeffrey Woods, often shortened to Jeff, and also known as Jeff the Killer and the Ghost Stalker, is the main antagonist of the 2024 rewrite of the Creepypasta of the same name by Pastra. He is a disturbed, psychopathic, arsonist individual who desires nothing more than to kill his entire family...
fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com
I thought the changes he made were great and very representative of what we want the site to become overall. Adding some of our recommended sections alongside multiple scans and quotes. And it seems it wasn't too difficult to do this, either.
I'd recommend for FC creators to try and do the same.
ShockingPsychic
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I feel it's important to note that the Pastra Jeff page is fanfiction of a fanfiction, as it's essentially a rewrite of a fanfiction (that also happens to be the most famous Jeff story)
I don't know if that passes the new quality standards regardless
I don't know if that passes the new quality standards regardless
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They can pass the standards it just means they are going to be looked at with more scrutiny.
We even gave some examples of verses like Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons or Remains, which are also fan fictions of fan fiction.
Please read the entire Site Rules page. I still feel as though many of these statements/questions could be avoided if people did.
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Not really, a lot of people including staff support the idea, but if there is any opposition to it, that doesn't really compute for me. Like, why don't you want all this work that's gone into these profiles to be saved so that the debating side of FC/OC stays alive, it makes zero sense to oppose it, it's either save the profiles and still use them for versus threads and development, or delete them
Respectable Decision, that also seemed dumb to me because i don't think we've had any issues with the creators of oc's outside of the wiki with hosting them here. As long as they got all the basic information on them, why delete them?
I don't think this is something most minors could do (Which make up a lot of FC/OC's community) but apparently Insane Sonic was fine on discord from what i remember, and seems much more within the abilities of what the younger side of the wiki could make, so i don't have much commentAs for FC standards, a user posted on the discord today of a profile he updated to fit our policy:
I thought the changes he made were great and very representative of what we want the site to become overall. Adding some of our recommended sections alongside multiple scans and quotes. And it seems it wasn't too difficult to do this, either.Jeff the Killer (Pastra's Rewrite)
Jeffrey Woods, often shortened to Jeff, and also known as Jeff the Killer and the Ghost Stalker, is the main antagonist of the 2024 rewrite of the Creepypasta of the same name by Pastra. He is a disturbed, psychopathic, arsonist individual who desires nothing more than to kill his entire family...
I'd recommend for FC creators to try and do the same.
ShockingPsychic
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I did read them, that's why I brought this up.
"Additionally, any content that is sourced from the original fan-fiction must be significantly altered in plot, personality, and other substantial information from the original in order to be allowed on the wiki as its own page."
I'm unsure if this rewrite of Jeff is altered enough, as major plot beats and character traits are still the same between the two. That isn't to say they're identical, Pastra's is definitely more refined, but I am unsure of where the line is drawn. I am unfamiliar with Fallout Equestria and why one is eligible but the other isn't. Perhaps a more detailed explanation would help?
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Could you define "minor" and explain to me why they couldn't? I feel like that opinion really puts down a lot of this community. Saying they're incapable of even doing such a thing.
I was a minor when I joined the wikis in general. 14-15 when I was first on FC/OC. My first page had Summary, Appearance, and Personality. All at least a paragraph.
The writing wasn't what I consider to be amazing (Or even "good"), but it was at least something.
All I'm asking for is that something. Even if you think 14 year old me shouldn't be compared to the average FC/OC user, I still have hope that everyone can achieve that level if they put in the effort.
People seem to be conflating "amateur writing" with "no writing at all." These ideas are not the same whatsoever.
Even if you aren't the best at writing, you should still be able to conceptualize character traits and write them to whatever the best of your ability is. Not having the best writing ability doesn't suddenly make you unable to explain a character at all :/
I have also updated the Standard Format to give an outline on things that could be written on the page. I believe this could help people who are very new to character development. Asking a number of questions that users can ponder upon and explore when making a page.
Sure. I will ask John about this. He tends to manage the FC-side of this wiki.
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Well, I don’t mean ALL minors, I said most for that reason, but I think we’ve seen our fair share of poorly made profiles in the bad page report channel on the discord that were likely made by kids. Heck, I highly doubt 13 year old me could pull off something like the Jeff the killer profile on their own. I think something like insane sonic is way more achievable for younger people or just people who are new to the things this wiki does in general, and it looks just fine to me in terms of detail. I just don’t want the standards for quality to be TOO high otherwise we’ll wind up having most people turned away. Some people just won’t be willing to put in work for something like the Jeff profile
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Most "poorly made" profiles were poorly made because they weren't made with the intention of any writing in the first place. They were just statistics and bad formatting. Had nothing to do with the actual quality of writing or anything like that. Just a lack of effort and fundamental understanding of the wiki.
"Most minors" does not change the statement nor does it alter my response.
I'd say... have more faith in minors being able to write and get up to that level, not less.
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Presumably because they don't want to compromise like that, and would instead fight for them to stay on the FC/OC wiki itself.Not really, a lot of people including staff support the idea, but if there is any opposition to it, that doesn't really compute for me. Like, why don't you want all this work that's gone into these profiles to be saved so that the debating side of FC/OC stays alive, it makes zero sense to oppose it, it's either save the profiles and still use them for versus threads and development, or delete them
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That’d be preferable definitely, although it doesn’t seem like these changes will be withdrawn, so we may as well keep them around somehow
What I mean is that there’s some people who can’t even follow the current site rules, but if the quality standards is something like insane sonic then that seems fine to me.
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