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It has a MOVIE and is in FORTNITE just accept our fate
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The Future of FC/OC (Major Changes to Policy and Content Standards)
- Thread starter Phoenks
- Start date
Agnaa
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No. We only allow such things if the original rightsholders retroactively give permission (as happened with Red vs Blue).
ThePrimalHunter
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I get why these changes are happening & where it's coming from, but I idk if it's really the right choice here
Firstly, it seems like almost no active users actually like this rule, but yet staff is still going through with this anyways. This kind of shows to me that the staff at FC/OC really doesn't give a shit about what the community actually wants, just what other staff wants, which is NOT a good look. You have 3 straight pages of nothing but backlash & there hasn't been a single edit to anything to try and find a middle ground. It seems like staff is saying "nope, we don't care if this is unpopular, we're doing it anyways, f*ck you."
If your goal is to just shoot FC/OC in the foot & give it a reputation of "staff only cares about what staff thinks, everyone else can go f*ck themselves" then this is the perfect way to do it. Hell, one of the staff in this very thread said almost exactly "I don't gaf if everyone here hates this, so long as I don't get any more Skibidi Toilet profiles on this wiki." You guys might as well just say "This entire wiki is just a circlejerk for staff to do what they want with it, not for the very people that use it to actually enjoy it, because what we want is far more important than what our users want cause we're staff & we can do that." If you guys want what's best for this wiki, I think that having litteraly everyone leave because they hate your choices isn't better for the wiki than having profiles like The Earwig Creature & Sonic.exe on it
This entire thing also doesn't take into account that the wiki has kind of evolved. The users of the wiki don't see it as just a place for them to put their own self-made FC/OC characters, but also a place to put their favorite FC/OC characters from other works. Example: I really liked Avocado Animation's MrBeast trilogy, so I made a profile of him, and a lot of other users of the wiki have done the same with other works they love. The users of the wiki have changed the wiki itself from just a place to only post their own original OCs to also include other peoples OCs, and I think that the wiki should evolve to what the actual users of it want, rather than staff forcing it to be what they want it to be. (It should be of note that I don't think this means that staff should just let users do whatever they want on the site & have it be a free-reign "post whatever you want" wiki, and that's why stuff such as tier 1/0 evaluations exist, which I fully support. But I think staff should be willing to accept that the users of the site (the very people that keep the site alive & running and the people that the site was made for) don't see it how staff sees it anymore, and the wiki should change to reflect that, rather than the wiki actively going against the wishes of the various people on the site)
One thing that also rubs me wrong is that if the OC comes from something you didn't create, it gets removed, no exceptions, even if you credit the og creator. However, if it's from a fanfiction that you didn't create, it's fair game? Fanfiction you didn't write are allowed so long as it "focus on highlighting the intricacies and complexities of these spin-offs, demonstrating what makes them genuinely unique, interesting, and creative compared to their canon counterparts and inspirations" but if you have an OC that does the exact same thing (is genuinely unique, interesting, creative, has their own full story, ect), but comes from something you didn't make, it's deleted with no exceptions? Even though Avocado Animation's MrBeast Animated Series on YT is plenty unique, has its own story, characters, world, and is heavy as all hell, because I wasn't the one that wrote & made it (even though litteraly in the title I gave credit to the creator), it instantly gets deleted, but stuff like Glitchtale (which afaik the creator isn't active on this wiki & didn't make the profiles) is perfectly okay to be on here because it follows the exact same rules that Avocado Animation's MrBeast series did? That's honestly really f*cking stupid. Why does fan content get such a pass but OC content doesn't? Volt12121 said it best earlier in the thread
I'm going to be really honest here, fanfictions you didn't create still being allowed to be uploaded to the wiki feels like something JohnConquest1 added so that way they could keep Fallout: Equestria on the wiki, which in my eyes, is an abuse of power. Delete all works not made by the author except for one of the staff's favorite projects, that gets to stay. I'm not saying this is what JohnConquest1 actually did, because idk what the decision making being this was (because this decision making didn't involve the users of the wiki at all which is also pretty iffy because we get litteraly no say, which is also not a good look imo), but from a non-staff member looking in, I can't help but feel like Fallout Equestria's biggest supporter being high-level staff had something to do with it getting to stay
I think that if litteraly all of your users of your website are saying that they hate something you're doing, maybe you should stop and reconsider for a second if this is really the right course of action for your site
Firstly, it seems like almost no active users actually like this rule, but yet staff is still going through with this anyways. This kind of shows to me that the staff at FC/OC really doesn't give a shit about what the community actually wants, just what other staff wants, which is NOT a good look. You have 3 straight pages of nothing but backlash & there hasn't been a single edit to anything to try and find a middle ground. It seems like staff is saying "nope, we don't care if this is unpopular, we're doing it anyways, f*ck you."
If your goal is to just shoot FC/OC in the foot & give it a reputation of "staff only cares about what staff thinks, everyone else can go f*ck themselves" then this is the perfect way to do it. Hell, one of the staff in this very thread said almost exactly "I don't gaf if everyone here hates this, so long as I don't get any more Skibidi Toilet profiles on this wiki." You guys might as well just say "This entire wiki is just a circlejerk for staff to do what they want with it, not for the very people that use it to actually enjoy it, because what we want is far more important than what our users want cause we're staff & we can do that." If you guys want what's best for this wiki, I think that having litteraly everyone leave because they hate your choices isn't better for the wiki than having profiles like The Earwig Creature & Sonic.exe on it
This entire thing also doesn't take into account that the wiki has kind of evolved. The users of the wiki don't see it as just a place for them to put their own self-made FC/OC characters, but also a place to put their favorite FC/OC characters from other works. Example: I really liked Avocado Animation's MrBeast trilogy, so I made a profile of him, and a lot of other users of the wiki have done the same with other works they love. The users of the wiki have changed the wiki itself from just a place to only post their own original OCs to also include other peoples OCs, and I think that the wiki should evolve to what the actual users of it want, rather than staff forcing it to be what they want it to be. (It should be of note that I don't think this means that staff should just let users do whatever they want on the site & have it be a free-reign "post whatever you want" wiki, and that's why stuff such as tier 1/0 evaluations exist, which I fully support. But I think staff should be willing to accept that the users of the site (the very people that keep the site alive & running and the people that the site was made for) don't see it how staff sees it anymore, and the wiki should change to reflect that, rather than the wiki actively going against the wishes of the various people on the site)
One thing that also rubs me wrong is that if the OC comes from something you didn't create, it gets removed, no exceptions, even if you credit the og creator. However, if it's from a fanfiction that you didn't create, it's fair game? Fanfiction you didn't write are allowed so long as it "focus on highlighting the intricacies and complexities of these spin-offs, demonstrating what makes them genuinely unique, interesting, and creative compared to their canon counterparts and inspirations" but if you have an OC that does the exact same thing (is genuinely unique, interesting, creative, has their own full story, ect), but comes from something you didn't make, it's deleted with no exceptions? Even though Avocado Animation's MrBeast Animated Series on YT is plenty unique, has its own story, characters, world, and is heavy as all hell, because I wasn't the one that wrote & made it (even though litteraly in the title I gave credit to the creator), it instantly gets deleted, but stuff like Glitchtale (which afaik the creator isn't active on this wiki & didn't make the profiles) is perfectly okay to be on here because it follows the exact same rules that Avocado Animation's MrBeast series did? That's honestly really f*cking stupid. Why does fan content get such a pass but OC content doesn't? Volt12121 said it best earlier in the thread
In stuff like Tier 1/0 threads, it makes sense to have different & more relaxed rules for fanfictions since they're already based off of pre-existing works with pre-existing cosmologies, but this doesn't make much sense. Either treat them equally & delete the Fallout: Equestria series as well since the og creator didn't add them, or let things stay on the wiki
I'm going to be really honest here, fanfictions you didn't create still being allowed to be uploaded to the wiki feels like something JohnConquest1 added so that way they could keep Fallout: Equestria on the wiki, which in my eyes, is an abuse of power. Delete all works not made by the author except for one of the staff's favorite projects, that gets to stay. I'm not saying this is what JohnConquest1 actually did, because idk what the decision making being this was (because this decision making didn't involve the users of the wiki at all which is also pretty iffy because we get litteraly no say, which is also not a good look imo), but from a non-staff member looking in, I can't help but feel like Fallout Equestria's biggest supporter being high-level staff had something to do with it getting to stay
I think that if litteraly all of your users of your website are saying that they hate something you're doing, maybe you should stop and reconsider for a second if this is really the right course of action for your site
Can we quit pretending that FC/OC Vs Battles Wiki is "first and foremost a place to put aspiring writers on the right path to learning about content creation, writing creative fiction as a hobby, and to help them learn the intricacies of mediawiki"? Because that's not how it's used or seen at all.
I hate to say this but to most people, powerscaling is seen as a loser & virgin hobby (at least when it comes to stuff like tiering & doing math for the characters. Everyone & their mother has wondered who would win between character X & Y, but most people don't give it much more though other than "Character X seems stronger so they win", it's when you start to get into tiering & battleboarding that people start thinking its weird). I know this firsthand. Everytime I tell someone, even super close friends I've known for almost my entire life, that I'm super into powerscaling & it's my hyperfixation, I'm typically met with not so positive feedback. The internet sees powerscaling as a neckbeard, lives in his moms basement type activity. And while that's not true because powerscaling is just a hobby and anyone can enjoy it, that's the stereotype people think of when they see or hear something along the lines of powerscaling. Bring up powerscaling to one of your less nerdy friends & watch them immidietley not give a shit.
Most amature writers not into powerscaling aren't going to look at this site & say "Wow! A place where I can upload my own OCs and have people look at them!" because there's a million different websites where they can do that. They'll think "ew, powerscaling, who cares about that" and move onto one of the other million different sites where people can post their OCs and have people look at them.
This is pretty evident because a good chunk of the people that are members of FC/OC are also active members of Vs Battles Wiki, because this site is for powerscalers who also enjoy writing stories, not just amature authors that want to get better at writing. If this site really was "first and foremost a place to put aspiring writers on the right path to learning about content creation, writing creative fiction as a hobby, and to help them learn the intricacies of mediawiki", it wouldn't be a powerscaling site. Not only that, but if the main goal of the wiki is so that aspiring writers can learn about content creation, maybe the FIRST WORDS of the FRONT PAGE OF THE WIKI shouldn't be "DO YOU LIKE VS DEBATING?" Or, you know, maybe don't have the words VS BATTLES WIKI in the TITLE OF THE WEBSITE, and if it was a site mainly about getting better at writing, it wouldn't be a sister site to ONE OF IF NOT THE BIGGEST & MOST WELL KNOWN POWERSCALING SITE EVER. This is either really shitty marketing or staff doesn't even know the main use of their own site, another tally on the not a good look for staff board.
Now yeah, it's not like this site is just a VS Site & nothing more, but you guys are acting like its main pourpose is a writing advice website. It's not. Most of the writing advice I see happen for peoples characters happens on the Discord. You guys are pretending like the site is something its not. It has always been a powerscaling site, just with peoples own characters rather than official characters. If people wanted to just get writing advice on their verses & characters, there are 10,000,000 different better sites than this one that don't involve them having to learn or get into powerscaling
I hate to say this but to most people, powerscaling is seen as a loser & virgin hobby (at least when it comes to stuff like tiering & doing math for the characters. Everyone & their mother has wondered who would win between character X & Y, but most people don't give it much more though other than "Character X seems stronger so they win", it's when you start to get into tiering & battleboarding that people start thinking its weird). I know this firsthand. Everytime I tell someone, even super close friends I've known for almost my entire life, that I'm super into powerscaling & it's my hyperfixation, I'm typically met with not so positive feedback. The internet sees powerscaling as a neckbeard, lives in his moms basement type activity. And while that's not true because powerscaling is just a hobby and anyone can enjoy it, that's the stereotype people think of when they see or hear something along the lines of powerscaling. Bring up powerscaling to one of your less nerdy friends & watch them immidietley not give a shit.
Most amature writers not into powerscaling aren't going to look at this site & say "Wow! A place where I can upload my own OCs and have people look at them!" because there's a million different websites where they can do that. They'll think "ew, powerscaling, who cares about that" and move onto one of the other million different sites where people can post their OCs and have people look at them.
This is pretty evident because a good chunk of the people that are members of FC/OC are also active members of Vs Battles Wiki, because this site is for powerscalers who also enjoy writing stories, not just amature authors that want to get better at writing. If this site really was "first and foremost a place to put aspiring writers on the right path to learning about content creation, writing creative fiction as a hobby, and to help them learn the intricacies of mediawiki", it wouldn't be a powerscaling site. Not only that, but if the main goal of the wiki is so that aspiring writers can learn about content creation, maybe the FIRST WORDS of the FRONT PAGE OF THE WIKI shouldn't be "DO YOU LIKE VS DEBATING?" Or, you know, maybe don't have the words VS BATTLES WIKI in the TITLE OF THE WEBSITE, and if it was a site mainly about getting better at writing, it wouldn't be a sister site to ONE OF IF NOT THE BIGGEST & MOST WELL KNOWN POWERSCALING SITE EVER. This is either really shitty marketing or staff doesn't even know the main use of their own site, another tally on the not a good look for staff board.
Now yeah, it's not like this site is just a VS Site & nothing more, but you guys are acting like its main pourpose is a writing advice website. It's not. Most of the writing advice I see happen for peoples characters happens on the Discord. You guys are pretending like the site is something its not. It has always been a powerscaling site, just with peoples own characters rather than official characters. If people wanted to just get writing advice on their verses & characters, there are 10,000,000 different better sites than this one that don't involve them having to learn or get into powerscaling
ThePrimalHunter
He/Him- 3,849
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Side Note:
I do think verses like Skibidi Toilet should be removed, but that's because by this point Skibidi Toilet is an official thing on its own. It was in Fortnite for gods sake. It's not an FC anymore, it's something else entirely
Death Battle I've always been super iffy on if they should stay here, but honestly, with the amount of work & detication put into them, I think that at the very least moving them to another site would be best, that way we're not just spitting in the face of everyone that put hours upon hours of work into them and saying "womp womp, sucks to suck"
I do think verses like Skibidi Toilet should be removed, but that's because by this point Skibidi Toilet is an official thing on its own. It was in Fortnite for gods sake. It's not an FC anymore, it's something else entirely
Death Battle I've always been super iffy on if they should stay here, but honestly, with the amount of work & detication put into them, I think that at the very least moving them to another site would be best, that way we're not just spitting in the face of everyone that put hours upon hours of work into them and saying "womp womp, sucks to suck"
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For the record the Earwing Creature can just be on vs wiki since Pleasant Inn has 2.6 million views
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I've been allowed to make a 5th wiki where the deleted profiles can still be indexed and used for interwiki matchups, (Similairly to alt battles) so that at least makes both sides happy. But while phoenks has cleared some of this up on discord (Mostly the quality changes) i'm still heavily against this going through as well. Getting rid of a good chunk of your community by deleting all these popular verses still isn't a good move at all, and it's clear that staff hasn't considered how this will only harm our already small community. I think us users care about this wiki more than they do, most of these changes won't be worth it at all. Without the 5th wiki this site will be basically done for.
Funny how this was basically ignored...
Ebihara
Any/All- 151
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Me personally I am excited for the 6th wiki one day.
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Nah, joke battles is too dead to get an archive wiki
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There are only 3 currently
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Alt Battles Wiki is a thing, so there's 4 atm
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Agnaa
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Don't forget about Outlier Battles Wiki!
ThePrimalHunter
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The compromise is litteraly "get the f*ck out of here if you don't like it"
That's not a compromise, that's just getting rid of people that don't like your choices
ThePrimalHunter
He/Him- 3,849
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I've been told it doesn't qualify, but if it can go to Vs Battles Wiki, I'd be happy with that as it always has been more of a main site character imo
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Well, i mean, this is still far better than without the 5th wiki, cause the FC's that are going to be deleted make up a lot of the debating side of this community. We'll still be allowed to use the deleted profiles in interwiki matchups so long as they aren't indexed on the main fc/oc.
It's also better than peoples' work just being lost which is also a huge problem with these changes. Unless the mods listen to us users and don't do anything other than up the page quality standards a bit, I think this is the best outcome for us users who want the community to actually, y’know, live
Ebihara
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Why not just allow the new wiki to host all the profiles that arent being allowed anymore? if a large amount of the community is being alienated why not just give all the profiles that are being lost a home.
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You're missing the point
You're still effectively kicking majority of the community out by nuking all these pages. This is like saying "Well I called an ambulance, so me shooting you is water under the bridge yah?"
There would be no need for a fifth wiki if there was an actual compromise.
Now what that compromise is, I have no clue, since evidently this is "staff and the user base have different views on what this site is"
But this fifth wiki idea is highly dismissive of people. If you delete a pages just to shove them into some other place that doesn't encourage people to keep working on their stuff or interact with the remains of the community (And as a SCP supporter, I can tell you this type of action is insanely demotivating)
Eden_Warlock99
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Don't know how bad or good the current SMG4 pages are, but I don't see why we'd ban the verse itself from here, modern SMG4 content is pretty story-focused, from what've seen at least (My knowledge basically just extends to the Mr. Puzzle antics).
Ebihara
Any/All- 151
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If staff don't want to listen to the community maybe just effectively defecting and moving the profiles over that are getting removed is the play? They seem to be interested more in storytelling/writing part of it and there seems to be a good amount of people who are interested in power scaling/indexing and the staff have a very rigid view of what they want the wiki to be and that doesnt fit into that.
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It’s not like it would be exactly like alt battles, just somewhat similair
I don’t see why they can’t be updated if the staff are allowing them to still be used for versus matchups, that’s kind of an important part of that. If they just aren’t on the main wiki then that doesn’t stop new death battle profiles from being made there, for example. It’s not even seperate in the sense that it has its own discord or anything either, it’s pretty much shared with fc/oc. I say that still being able to have these profiles and also still use them for half their purpose (Versus threads) is far better than not having these profiles indexed and updated at all, and having staff destroy it’s own wiki.
