the downstreamers vs the timelords

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

time lords

downstreamers: 3 (@Jibz, @Jockey-1337, @HowManyMemes)

Rules:

2-C for downstreamers and Low 2-C for time lords (Last great time war time lords vs Downstreamers/Base Downstreamers)

Spoiler: what it states

Even if a character has the potential to reach a certain tier, the use of any tier between that tier and the one it scales to is not allowed. For example, Avatar of Calamity cannot be used in a vs thread with a tier between High 7-A and 2-A or Unknown and 2-A depending on the used key.


Does this apply to what i said about using a 2-C tier between Low 2-C and to at least Low 1-C

Speed Equalized

The time lords have knowledge of the downstreamers but not vice versa

Battle takes place on gallifrey

in-Character downstreamers but bloodlusted time lords

Victory Conditions: Incapacitation only



also


@Jibz and @Oliver_de_jesus

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Standard Battle Assumptions

The following are the assumptions to be made for battles in versus threads, if no alternative assumptions are specified by the thread creator. Assumptions alternative to these ones can be freely used, are equally legitimate, and threads using different assumptions can be added to profiles just...

vsbattles.fandom.com

should i specify which range they are?

because what is the range for either if i don't mention any range between them.

 

[Confluctor]

Does this apply to what i said about using a 2-C tier between Low 2-C and to at least Low 1-C

Yes. If a tier is not on their file, it can't be used.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Yes. If a tier is not on their file, it can't be used.

okay then low 2-C then

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I don't think that the Timelords can do anything significant to the DS who has High godly regen and Causality type 5, in the best case they would try to seal Downstreamers with a Quatum lock

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I don't think that the Timelords can do anything significant to the DS who has High godly regen and Causality type 5, in the best case they would try to seal Downstreamers with a Quatum lock

should i specify range.

did you look at the SBA link? (Standard battle assumptions)?

i mean what should i say in the OP. since i'm now worried that some of the SBA's might make this unfair

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

okay changed the OP


time lords are low 2-C now. (i'm wondering if it's okay if they can have anything higher than that as long as that is not higher than 2-C)

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

probably technology that is based on block transfer computations are what gives they that level.

It is also likely that The Downstreams will be teleported out of Gallifrey due to the defenses, so range is not a problem

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

probably technology that is based on block transfer computations are what gives they that level.

It is also likely that The Downstreams will be teleported out of Gallifrey due to the defenses, so range is not a problem

so it's fine to not specify range and to restrict anything above low 2-C?

 

[Jibz]

I don't think that the Timelords can do anything significant to the DS who has High godly regen and Causality type 5, in the best case they would try to seal Downstreamers with a Quatum lock

Whats a Quatum lock and how does it work?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

is a complex form of Paralysis that locks the target out of existence (not dead but not alive either) iirc

 

[Jibz]

is a complex form of Paralysis that locks the target out of existence (not dead but not alive either) iirc

"existence" in what sense, because the downstreamers are just, and to quote Manifold:Time "god-type computers"

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

existence in the sense of universe, for example: Weeping Angels are creatures that as long as they are observed it they will be statues but when no one observes them they will be monsters thirsty for energy


is similar to this effect

Quantum Zeno effect - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Jibz]

existence in the sense of universe, for example: Weeping Angels are creatures that as long as they are observed it they will be statues but when no one observes them they will be monsters thirsty for energy


is similar to this effect

Quantum Zeno effect - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I see, and how do the time lords use this ability? Is it in character? How long does it take to do. Also would this even work on a being with Acausality type 5

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

see, and how do the time lords use this ability? Is it in character? How long does it take to do. Also would this even work on a being with Acausality type 5

I don't know, they usually prefer to use Time Locks which I don't think will work here

 

[Jibz]

I don't know, they usually prefer to use Time Locks which I don't think will work here

i see, do they have any defence to Downstreamers just going back in time and killing them?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

i see, do they have any defence to Downstreamers just going back in time and killing them?

Yes, aside from the Transduction barriers and the quantum fields, Downstreaners would need to get past several time locks that are put on the time lord's history, that means that while the Time lords can't seal them, they themselves are sealed.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I see, and how do the time lords use this ability? Is it in character? How long does it take to do. Also would this even work on a being with Acausality type 5

they’re bloodlusted and have knowledge here.

the time lords

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

hey oliver so the SBA range you mentioned

does that also apply to the Xeelee thread as well? something about kicking them out if they are on gallifrey thingy.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

probably technology that is based on block transfer computations are what gives they that level.

It is also likely that The Downstreams will be teleported out of Gallifrey due to the defenses, so range is not a problem

also since i said low 2-C time lords


does that mean anything higher gets restricted? (cause colonel krukov said if any attacks are higher than the tier you are talking about. it gets restricted something like that)

quote:

"Any attacks that are over the tier you're debating about are restricted."

it turns out that includes weapons and magic

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

also since i said low 2-C time lords


does that mean anything higher gets restricted? (cause colonel krukov said if any attacks are higher than the tier you are talking about. it gets restricted something like that)

quote:

"Any attacks that are over the tier you're debating about are restricted."

it turns out that includes weapons and magic

It's fine, everything i discuss is more Hax

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

hey oliver so the SBA range you mentioned

does that also apply to the Xeelee thread as well? something about kicking them out if they are on gallifrey thingy.

yes basically anything that is not authorized, will be teleported a beyond gallifrey's moons

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

bump

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

yes basically anything that is not authorized, will be teleported a beyond gallifrey's moons

how does time lord conceptual manipulation work?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Some weapons directly destroy the concept, others modify it so that something is always limited to being certain things, they could also become a concept independent of time and reality since the celestis are Time lords who deserted to escape the War on heaven

 

[Jibz]

Personally i think the Downstreamers High-Godly regen + Acausality type 5 would be enough for the time lords to not be able to do anything. And are forced to incap rather than kill, because killing them (well as Micheal puts it "leaving the husk" although the reference to that always confused me. It's irrelevant anyways) just allows them to become the tier 0 versions of themselves.


Personally i believe the Downstreamers just have too many wincons:

Analyze the time lords and create a perfect copy. Which would then fight for them. These don't have to be one might i add, despite not showing it they have the capability to do this as much as they'd like. (albiet if iirc they must pass through a portal beforehand, but ig standard just watching an adapting would work aswell)

I don't believe any incap methods the time lords have would effect beings with Acauslity type 5, but correct me if i'm wrong.

Causality Manip, void manip, subjective reality , reality warping are insane hax they have at their disposal.

With mathematics and technology manip dealing with the Time Lords attacks.

Voting for Downstreamers, for now atleast.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Personally i think the Downstreamers High-Godly regen + Acausality type 5 would be enough for the time lords to not be able to do anything. And are forced to incap rather than kill, because killing them (well as Micheal puts it "leaving the husk" although the reference to that always confused me. It's irrelevant anyways) just allows them to become the tier 0 versions of themselves.


Personally i believe the Downstreamers just have too many wincons:

Analyze the time lords and create a perfect copy. Which would then fight for them. These don't have to be one might i add, despite not showing it they have the capability to do this as much as they'd like. (albiet if iirc they must pass through a portal beforehand, but ig standard just watching an adapting would work aswell)

I don't believe any incap methods the time lords have would effect beings with Acauslity type 5, but correct me if i'm wrong.

Causality Manip, void manip, subjective reality , reality warping are insane hax they have at their disposal.

With mathematics and technology manip dealing with the Time Lords attacks.

Voting for Downstreamers, for now atleast.

do the time lords still have a chance?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I really don't think so, it's probably a stomp, unless the dark times count as Acasuality type 5 negation feat

 

[Jibz]

do the time lords still have a chance?

i'm not knowledgeable enough on the verse to give a definitive comment, but from what i'm seeing they have good hax. It's just the downstreamers have gooder hax.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I really don't think so, it's probably a stomp, unless the dark times count as Acasuality type 5 negation feat

at least a tiny chance?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I really don't think so, it's probably a stomp, unless the dark times count as Acasuality type 5 negation feat

i looked up the word probably. it basically means almost 100% but not 100%

so i guess the time lords do have a small chance. (so i guess not) it's not impossible.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

in the best of cases they would force an incon

Analyze the time lords and create a perfect copy. Which would then fight for them. These don't have to be one might i add, despite not showing it they have the capability to do this as much as they'd like. (albiet if iirc they must pass through a portal beforehand, but ig standard just watching an adapting would work aswell)

although the WarTardis cannot be analyzed, so they would not be able to copy correctly as such.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

in the best of cases they would force an incon


although the WarTardis cannot be analyzed, so they would not be able to copy correctly as such.

so you think this matchup could work as an incon.


so it's basically close to a stomp but not? (so incon yes?)

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

i mean if you look at the OP

it says the downstreamers do not have knowledge of the time lords but the time lords do.

plus the time lords are bloodlusted here but the downstreamers are in-character

 

[Jibz]

although the WarTardis cannot be analyzed, so they would not be able to copy correctly as such.

The downstreamers have "omniscience" (uhhh how the **** do they have this lol) on their ability page, so would this even be an issue? They can't NOT truly not be analysed and for how you describe it, it sounds like an inverse thing. Correct?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

The downstreamers have "omniscience" (uhhh how the **** do they have this lol) on their ability page, so would this even be an issue? They can't NOT truly not be analysed and for how you describe it, it sounds like an inverse thing. Correct?

it actually says nigh-omniscience (They don't have full omniscience jibz)

 

[Jibz]

it says the downstreamers do not have knowledge of the time lords but the time lords do.

they'd naturally gain knowledge over time, by watching the time lords at work. This mimicing comes from the analysis they've gain, so despite not actually creating a composite character it is within the line of reasoning that they'd be able to make one. So they'll learn and mimic and create a being even greater then that of the Time Lords.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

they'd naturally gain knowledge over time, by watching the time lords at work. This mimicing comes from the analysis they've gain, so despite not actually creating a composite character it is within the line of reasoning that they'd be able to make one. So they'll learn and mimic and create a being even greater then that of the Time Lords.

oh okay jibz

though i ask you something. would changing the victory condition to Incap only make any difference?

 

[Jibz]

it actually says nigh-omniscience (They don't have full omniscience jibz)

They have it on their ability part for some reason. (i seriously have no idea why it's there) so it should be applicable (although it really shouldn't...Micheal himself admitted he didn't know what will occur after the true vacuum universe were to occur), but hey it's on their profile so it should be allowed untill a CRT is made to remove it, right?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

They have it on their ability part for some reason. (i seriously have no idea why it's there) so it should be applicable (although it really shouldn't...Micheal himself admitted he didn't know what will occur after the true vacuum universe were to occur), but hey it's on their profile so it should be allowed untill a CRT is made to remove it, right?

i guess so. i'm not knowledgeable in the series or anything or whatever


but jibz i'm asking you if changing the victory condition to Incap only helps make it better or anything?