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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

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It'd basically just be a key on the profile but this key would be no different from the actual tier 0 profile or other people who have this tier 0 key since they're all the same being right?
Could be that, sure, or it could also be what Everything said.

I suppose you could also be an incarnation or manifestation through which the Tier 0 acts, or someone who has the graces of the Tier 0 and thus can "tap" into its power (Ask for a favor). Those are coherent, too.
 
So the system change is basically:
High 1-B: Dimensions
1-A: Ontological Superiority
High 1-A: Even more ontological superior
0: Supreme absolute omnipotent entity and it's aspects

With this focus on ontological superiority meaning that R>F, Beyond-Dimensional Existence Type 2, and other such things need a bit of clearing out for those who currently have it but shouldn't.

Which then leads to similar changes in the opposite direction in the tiers so low that only the likes of SCP exist in them.

Am I missing anything?
 
Multiple characters can be the same being, so, if that's the case, it gets a pass.
Yes, I agree with that. I was arguing with deonment and he said multiple different characters could scale to tier 0 in the same verse even if they aren't the same being or have any relations to one another eg a connection to one another.
 
So the system change is basically:
High 1-B: Dimensions
1-A: Ontological Superiority
High 1-A: Even more ontological superior
0: Supreme absolute omnipotent entity and it's aspects

With this focus on ontological superiority meaning that R>F, Beyond-Dimensional Existence Type 2, and other such things need a bit of clearing out for those who currently have it but shouldn't.

Which then leads to similar changes in the opposite direction in the tiers so low that only the likes of SCP exist in them.

Am I missing anything?
Missed Low 1-A (Which is basically absolute infinity, in brief terms), but yeah, you got it.

And you're right, yeah. The revision is gonna result in a lot more pages becoming more detailed, one way or another. The Beyond-Dimensional Existence page is pretty barebones, for instance, and the Omnipotence page is awful. I'd like to rewrite both.
 
indian hinduism based soap operas on their way to get tier 0

 
So what are the current arguments against the system then? That ontological superiority doesn't necessarily make you better than dimensions? That BDE Type 2 alone is too little for 1-A? That Tier 0 should be more inclusive or the requirements are too vague? No actual scientific backing of the logic?
 
So what are the current arguments against the system then? That ontological superiority doesn't necessarily make you better than dimensions? That BDE Type 2 alone is too little for 1-A? That Tier 0 should be more inclusive or the requirements are too vague? No actual scientific backing of the logic?
The Tier 0 is beyond scientific understanding tbh.
 
So what are the current arguments against the system then? That ontological superiority doesn't necessarily make you better than dimensions? That BDE Type 2 alone is too little for 1-A? That Tier 0 should be more inclusive or the requirements are too vague? No actual scientific backing of the logic?
cant believe there is no scientific backing for philosophy and mysticism based tiering
 
So what are the current arguments against the system then? That ontological superiority doesn't necessarily make you better than dimensions? That BDE Type 2 alone is too little for 1-A? That Tier 0 should be more inclusive or the requirements are too vague?
Something like that. The summary of the opposition's points is going to be posted soon enough, so.

indian hinduism based soap operas on their way to get tier 0

Goes veritably hard.
 
this is basically describing a divine essence

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I think the Emperor Beyond the Sea deserves Type 0. As I mentioned, Yahweh's “True Nature” is 0 as well.

I know Aslan is connected with the Emperor and the Christian analogy of God, the Father, and God, the Son. However, the story slightly depicts it differently. While Christianity views them as one and the same with no separation but title. C.S. Lewis views it more like Aslan is an aspect of the Emperor, closely related, but not exactly “one and the same.” Still, I can see an argument for Aslan.

Ultima what's your opinion on Narnia and Lord of the Rings? Should they scale to that perhaps with Eru and the Emperor?
 
I think the Emperor Beyond the Sea deserves Type 0. As I mentioned, Yahweh's “True Nature” is 0 as well.

I know Aslan is connected with the Emperor and the Christian analogy of God, the Father, and God, the Son. However, the story slightly depicts it differently. While Christianity views them as one and the same with no separation but title. C.S. Lewis views it more like Aslan is an aspect of the Emperor, closely related, but not exactly “one and the same.” Still, I can see an argument for Aslan.

Ultima what's your opinion on Narnia and Lord of the Rings? Should they scale to that perhaps with Eru and the Emperor?
Isn't Aslan's true form stated to be more real than anything anyway? Including the mountain
 
Also, wouldn't this new system make beyond-dimensional physiology give immeasurable speed? Since time wouldn't be real to them, and only fictional to their state of existence?
 
Isn't Aslan's true form stated to be more real than anything anyway? Including the mountain
I mean he literally both Narnia and The Country. It's sometimes even called True Narnia where Narnia and the Ocean that leads to the edge are all just part of his design. Which by proxy does mean they're fictional to him. It's more so the analogy that we look for. If that's not going to work then Alsan is not a Tier 0 in his base state. Can't say what Aslan truly is.
 
I know Aslan is connected with the Emperor and the Christian analogy of God, the Father, and God, the Son. However, the story slightly depicts it differently. While Christianity views them as one and the same with no separation but title. C.S. Lewis views it more like Aslan is an aspect of the Emperor, closely related, but not exactly “one and the same.” Still, I can see an argument for Aslan.
Technically Narnia just depicts the orthodox Christian view, which is that Father, Son and Spirit are distinct from each other but nevertheless of one essence and substance so that there is no division between them, so, yeah, Aslan and the Emperor are not the same, but they're also one God at the end of the day. That said I'm not terribly sure that Lewis ever elaborates enough on Christian theology to get into the stuff that'd make them Tier 0.

Ultima what's your opinion on Narnia and Lord of the Rings? Should they scale to that perhaps with Eru and the Emperor?
Eru is indeed 0, yeah.
 
I AM THAT I AM and True Authors would still count still count for 0? WoD has Type IV Tegmark which was mentioned to be a Low 1-A. I don't really recall this verse or SCP being beyond the concept of dimensionality though.

Your opinion, Ultima? Also, was your Monad proposal from Phsilopshy or Gnostics?
 
I AM THAT I AM and True Authors would still count still count for 0? WoD has Type IV Tegmark which was mentioned to be a Low 1-A. I don't really recall this verse or SCP being beyond the concept of dimensionality though.
I AM certainly is 0, yeah. Overall, Tier 0 come the revisions is more or less a totally self-sufficient and cosmology-independent tier. You could have a verse where the only cosmological structure around is the Monad and it'd still be 0. The true authors for sure aren't 0, though, since they're just regular people living in a higher reality.

Your opinion, Ultima? Also, was your Monad proposal from Phsilopshy or Gnostics?
Technically the latter borrowed that thing from the former, so, yeah.
 
If you agree with what I said about the Presence of true nature. Would Michael and Lucifer be High 1-A since they're the only bring that scale to him?
 
If you agree with what I said about the Presence of true nature. Would Michael and Lucifer be High 1-A since they're the only bring that scale to him?
No, since, as said, you can't downscale from a Tier 0. Tier 0 pretty much transcends all proportion with lower tiers, so there is no such thing as being "right below it," or any of that.
 
No, since, as said, you can't downscale from a Tier 0. Tier 0 pretty much transcends all proportion with lower tiers, so there is no such thing as being "right below it," or any of that.
Right, I still took that you would leave some leeway but I guess not. Did the mids finally agree to go with your proposal?
 
No, since, as said, you can't downscale from a Tier 0. Tier 0 pretty much transcends all proportion with lower tiers, so there is no such thing as being "right below it," or any of that.
Nice to know dc is gonna get upgraded again kinda find it funny they got downgraded massively only for them to possibly be upgraded to a higher tier than before
 
Bit of a meme here. How is this for Tier 0; an almighty being, transcendent over creation, both part of everything and outside everything. Having emanated all of creation and its concept from its being as aspects of its consciousness it perceived into being.
 
Eru is indeed 0, yeah.
I've been looking into this on the side while going forward with my current Ainur revisions, but can you give a brief breakdown on how?

I understand stuff like Eru being infinite compared to the Ainur, Tolkien's ventures into Aristotelian Philosophy, his equalising with literal God and Eru, etc, but I haven't given Him a full look.

Also, do you think the Ainur are 1-A?
 
Bit of a meme here. How is this for Tier 0; an almighty being, transcendent over creation, both part of everything and outside everything. Having emanated all of creation and its concept from its being as aspects of its consciousness it perceived into being.
Impressive. Very nice.

Does its name start with an "A" and end with a "S," perchance?
 
That does bring me to another question that bothers me, Arceus (avatar) and it's realm, they are both beyond the concepts of space (dimensions) and time, being beyond the reach of the rest of creation, problem is that both things exist for the sole purpose of allowing Arceus to interact with lesser beings on their level. So not 1-A, but would we just stick with the current Low 1-C, or would this change somehow?
 
That does bring me to another question that bothers me, Arceus (avatar) and it's realm, they are both beyond the concepts of space (dimensions) and time, being beyond the reach of the rest of creation, problem is that both things exist for the sole purpose of allowing Arceus to interact with lesser beings on their level. So not 1-A, but would we just stick with the current Low 1-C, or would this change somehow?
Looking at the profile, it seems we treat Avatar Arceus as being higher-dimensional and the Original Spirit as the one who exists beyond dimensions altogether. Seems only the latter would be 1-A come the revisions.
 
Looking at the profile, it seems we treat Avatar Arceus as being higher-dimensional and the Original Spirit as the one who exists beyond dimensions altogether. Seems only the latter would be 1-A come the revisions.
Awkward mistake here. So because Arceus is the mind behind avatar Arceus I made a thread to upgrade it's profile to showcase, it accepted and I then added Limited Higher-Dimensional Existence as the avatar can physically be effected by Pokemon and trainers and it's only its true form mind that is outside interaction... but it probably should have been Limited Beyond-Dimensional Existence because it's from it's true form. In reality neither of them should have Higher-Dimensional Existence because they are beyond dimensions altogether, or at least the avatar is able to travel and exist in the realm it created that is beyond dimensions. whoops.
 
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