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So same as, just wanted to check if it had any new qualities or requirements. This all seems to make sense to me.
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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"
- Thread starter Iamunanimousinthat
- Start date
Tdjwo
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I think I get what you mean now. Also, can multiple different characters scale to tier 0 in a single verse? I ask this question because a character than truly possesses Divine Simplicity is supposed to be unparalleled in its verse. So having multiple characters scaling the same is sorta contradictory imo.
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Multiple characters can be the same being, so, if that's the case, it gets a pass.
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It'd basically just be a key on the profile but this key would be no different from the actual tier 0 profile or other people who have this tier 0 key since they're all the same being right?
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Sometimes the different facets of the supreme entity have distinct enough appearance in the media to warrant different profiles if technically the same being, so that doesn't particularly work.
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Or if a verse has multiple people who gain a sort of enlightenment like nirvana where they return back or realize they were always a undifferentiated state of oneness. This would be notable enough for them to have a key but all these people would be the exact same thing.
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Could be that, sure, or it could also be what Everything said.
I suppose you could also be an incarnation or manifestation through which the Tier 0 acts, or someone who has the graces of the Tier 0 and thus can "tap" into its power (Ask for a favor). Those are coherent, too.
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That would be moreso tier 0 hax/abilities right?
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Of course, yeah.
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So the system change is basically:
High 1-B: Dimensions
1-A: Ontological Superiority
High 1-A: Even more ontological superior
0: Supreme absolute omnipotent entity and it's aspects
With this focus on ontological superiority meaning that R>F, Beyond-Dimensional Existence Type 2, and other such things need a bit of clearing out for those who currently have it but shouldn't.
Which then leads to similar changes in the opposite direction in the tiers so low that only the likes of SCP exist in them.
Am I missing anything?
High 1-B: Dimensions
1-A: Ontological Superiority
High 1-A: Even more ontological superior
0: Supreme absolute omnipotent entity and it's aspects
With this focus on ontological superiority meaning that R>F, Beyond-Dimensional Existence Type 2, and other such things need a bit of clearing out for those who currently have it but shouldn't.
Which then leads to similar changes in the opposite direction in the tiers so low that only the likes of SCP exist in them.
Am I missing anything?
Tdjwo
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Yes, I agree with that. I was arguing with deonment and he said multiple different characters could scale to tier 0 in the same verse even if they aren't the same being or have any relations to one another eg a connection to one another.
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Missed Low 1-A (Which is basically absolute infinity, in brief terms), but yeah, you got it.
And you're right, yeah. The revision is gonna result in a lot more pages becoming more detailed, one way or another. The Beyond-Dimensional Existence page is pretty barebones, for instance, and the Omnipotence page is awful. I'd like to rewrite both.
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indian hinduism based soap operas on their way to get tier 0
vsbattles.fandom.com
Shiva (Devo ke Dev Mahadev)
Shiva (also called Mahadev) is a character from a TV show called Devo ke Dev Mahadev whose plot revolves around the life of Hindu God Lord Shiva. Mahadev is described as the Supreme deity of whole existence with everything just being a part of him. He can be perceived in infinite forms and...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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So what are the current arguments against the system then? That ontological superiority doesn't necessarily make you better than dimensions? That BDE Type 2 alone is too little for 1-A? That Tier 0 should be more inclusive or the requirements are too vague? No actual scientific backing of the logic?
Tdjwo
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The Tier 0 is beyond scientific understanding tbh.
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cant believe there is no scientific backing for philosophy and mysticism based tiering
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Something something absolute infinity and Type 4 Multiverses.
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Something like that. The summary of the opposition's points is going to be posted soon enough, so.
Goes veritably hard.indian hinduism based soap operas on their way to get tier 0
Shiva (Devo ke Dev Mahadev)
Shiva (also called Mahadev) is a character from a TV show called Devo ke Dev Mahadev whose plot revolves around the life of Hindu God Lord Shiva. Mahadev is described as the Supreme deity of whole existence with everything just being a part of him. He can be perceived in infinite forms and...
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Considering Tier 0 is basically Brahman, would not surprise me.
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Tdjwo
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She's glazing him so hard 
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I think the Emperor Beyond the Sea deserves Type 0. As I mentioned, Yahweh's “True Nature” is 0 as well.
I know Aslan is connected with the Emperor and the Christian analogy of God, the Father, and God, the Son. However, the story slightly depicts it differently. While Christianity views them as one and the same with no separation but title. C.S. Lewis views it more like Aslan is an aspect of the Emperor, closely related, but not exactly “one and the same.” Still, I can see an argument for Aslan.
Ultima what's your opinion on Narnia and Lord of the Rings? Should they scale to that perhaps with Eru and the Emperor?
I know Aslan is connected with the Emperor and the Christian analogy of God, the Father, and God, the Son. However, the story slightly depicts it differently. While Christianity views them as one and the same with no separation but title. C.S. Lewis views it more like Aslan is an aspect of the Emperor, closely related, but not exactly “one and the same.” Still, I can see an argument for Aslan.
Ultima what's your opinion on Narnia and Lord of the Rings? Should they scale to that perhaps with Eru and the Emperor?
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Isn't Aslan's true form stated to be more real than anything anyway? Including the mountain
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Also, wouldn't this new system make beyond-dimensional physiology give immeasurable speed? Since time wouldn't be real to them, and only fictional to their state of existence?
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I mean he literally both Narnia and The Country. It's sometimes even called True Narnia where Narnia and the Ocean that leads to the edge are all just part of his design. Which by proxy does mean they're fictional to him. It's more so the analogy that we look for. If that's not going to work then Alsan is not a Tier 0 in his base state. Can't say what Aslan truly is.
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After, Ultima revision I will do some thread about it.
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Technically Narnia just depicts the orthodox Christian view, which is that Father, Son and Spirit are distinct from each other but nevertheless of one essence and substance so that there is no division between them, so, yeah, Aslan and the Emperor are not the same, but they're also one God at the end of the day. That said I'm not terribly sure that Lewis ever elaborates enough on Christian theology to get into the stuff that'd make them Tier 0.
Eru is indeed 0, yeah.
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I AM THAT I AM and True Authors would still count still count for 0? WoD has Type IV Tegmark which was mentioned to be a Low 1-A. I don't really recall this verse or SCP being beyond the concept of dimensionality though.
Your opinion, Ultima? Also, was your Monad proposal from Phsilopshy or Gnostics?
Your opinion, Ultima? Also, was your Monad proposal from Phsilopshy or Gnostics?
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Where would type 4 place under the revisions anyway?
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I AM certainly is 0, yeah. Overall, Tier 0 come the revisions is more or less a totally self-sufficient and cosmology-independent tier. You could have a verse where the only cosmological structure around is the Monad and it'd still be 0. The true authors for sure aren't 0, though, since they're just regular people living in a higher reality.
Technically the latter borrowed that thing from the former, so, yeah.
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Low 1-A.
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If you agree with what I said about the Presence of true nature. Would Michael and Lucifer be High 1-A since they're the only bring that scale to him?
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No, since, as said, you can't downscale from a Tier 0. Tier 0 pretty much transcends all proportion with lower tiers, so there is no such thing as being "right below it," or any of that.
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Right, I still took that you would leave some leeway but I guess not. Did the mids finally agree to go with your proposal?
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Nice to know dc is gonna get upgraded again
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Voting hasn't formally started yet. Will pretty soon, though.
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Is having the powers of a lower form of a tier 0 character enough to scale?
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Bit of a meme here. How is this for Tier 0; an almighty being, transcendent over creation, both part of everything and outside everything. Having emanated all of creation and its concept from its being as aspects of its consciousness it perceived into being.
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I've been looking into this on the side while going forward with my current Ainur revisions, but can you give a brief breakdown on how?
I understand stuff like Eru being infinite compared to the Ainur, Tolkien's ventures into Aristotelian Philosophy, his equalising with literal God and Eru, etc, but I haven't given Him a full look.
Also, do you think the Ainur are 1-A?
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