The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

[ProfectusInfinity]

Anyone else feel like tier 1 is getting more difficult to obtain?

It’s not just you. I feel like any “higher plane beyond space-time” could grant you tier 1 with a few extra statements before, but now there’s a lot of stipulations about an uncountably infinite gap, to the point where even viewing space-time as specks or something akin won’t cut it for supporting evidence.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

mf prob gonna try and argue that 8-D moon cell = 5 layers into outer

And no it doesn't really since it's an analogy and not literally seeing the lower reality as if it was unreal but instead past present and future are all displayed in front of the person like it was a book and seeing lower dimension as if it was "a flat scroll".

the moon cell records them as simulations.

 

[Phoenks]

1-A is definitely easier to obtain.

High 1-A, it depends what Ultima defines the exact gap between 1-A and High 1-A as. If a series has to actually depict and explain a "meta" quality, then it will be harder. If it can just be the same as how 1-A and High 1A are right now, then it will be equally hard to obtain.

0 will be impossible ASF.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

It’s not just you. I feel like any “higher plane beyond space-time” could grant you tier 1 with a few extra statements before, but now there’s a lot of stipulations about an uncountably infinite gap, to the point where even viewing space-time as specks or something akin won’t cut it for supporting evidence.

It almost feels like its getting to a point of absolutely nothing can get you tier 1 anymore aside from RFD.

Unless, a series straight up states an uncountably infinity without using it fot any hyperbolic reasons.

Edit
Like almost every single method used in the past to get 5D at the minimum is now obsolete

Infinite multiverses/uncountably infinite universes? Nah no longer works

Using sizes of universes (specks, stars, galaxies, atoms, etc)? Nah no longer works

Being infinitely larger than the multiverse? Nah no longer works (though I always found this one a bit odd and disagreed with it being a 5D thingy)

Physically being the Gao between worlds? Nope, won't work.

Hypertimeline logic? That's like trying to pull a healthy tooth out and requires a novel to prove and get passed.

Calling something or someone 5th dimensional and then saying their "infinitely beyond the multiverse?" Nah by current standards that wouldn't even work.

Like..... is there actually any legitimate way to get 5D anymore? Without using RFD?

 

[Iiliminal]

BlBlablalblalbla k goku solos

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

It almost feels like its getting to a point of absolutely nothing can get you tier 1 anymore aside from RFD.

Unless, a series straight up states an uncountably infinity without using it fot any hyperbolic reasons.

Edit
Like almost every single method used in the past to get 5D at the minimum is now obsolete

Infinite multiverses/uncountably infinite universes? Nah no longer works

Using sizes of universes (specks, stars, galaxies, atoms, etc)? Nah no longer works

Being infinitely larger than the multiverse? Nah no longer works (though I always found this one a bit odd and disagreed with it being a 5D thingy)

Physically being the Gao between worlds? Nope, won't work.

Hypertimeline logic? That's like trying to pull a healthy tooth out and requires a novel to prove and get passed.

Calling something or someone 5th dimensional and then saying their "infinitely beyond the multiverse?" Nah by current standards that wouldn't even work.

Like..... is there actually any legitimate way to get 5D anymore? Without using RFD?

I am pretty sure the bolded will still work.

Dimensional scaling still exists. Its just that qualitive superiority won't work any more. But quantitative superiority will.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I am pretty sure the bolded will still work.

Dimensional scaling still exists. Its just that qualitive superiority won't work any more. But quantitative superiority will.

Thought I saw something somewhere a couple days ago that basically said their all apart of the same 2-A multiverse thus not uncountably infinite but 1 single infinity

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Crazy how nobody here actually understands the tiering system but they complain about it anyways

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Thought I saw something somewhere a couple days ago that basically said their all apart of the same 2-A multiverse thus not uncountably infinite but 1 single infinity

That's not the current case. But who knows, since quantitative superiority and qualitative superiority were decided to no longer be equivalent, someone may argue that number of universes is not equivalent to dimensional axes.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

That's not the current case. But who knows, since quantitative superiority and qualitative superiority were decided to no longer be equivalent, someone may argue that number of universes is not equivalent to dimensional axes.

Here it is

Bigger than a Single 2-A Structure being a Low 1-C Standard - Clarification

Bump... I have a thread waiting for the conclusion of this

vsbattles.com

"Infinite 2-A multiverses have the same number of universes as a single one, so the first part adds nothing to size. " - DT

 

[Iiliminal]

anos on very existent misfit 1AH INFINITY BOUNDLANDS LOD FROM solos weak tier system

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

anos on very existent misfit 1AH INFINITY BOUNDLANDS LOD FROM solos weak tier system

Backrooms victim tho.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Here it is

Bigger than a Single 2-A Structure being a Low 1-C Standard - Clarification

Bump... I have a thread waiting for the conclusion of this

vsbattles.com

"Infinite 2-A multiverses have the same number of universes as a single one, so the first part adds nothing to size. " - DT

This is only applies to infinity^n universes. Once a multiverse has uncountably infinite universe or infinity^infinity then it will be low 1-c.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Saint seiya overe here with transduality statements, and with 3 RFD showings and statements each transcending the other and the next

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

This is only applies to infinity^n universes. Once a multiverse has uncountably infinite universe or infinity^infinity then it will be low 1-c.

Isn't Infinite multiverses the same as uncountably infinite universes?

Infinite multiverses each with Infinite universes

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Isn't Infinite multiverses the same as uncountably infinite universes?

Infinite multiverses each with Infinite universes

No, that's 2-A.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

No, that's 2-A.

Huh, so I misunderstood then.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Isn't Infinite multiverses the same as uncountably infinite universes?

Infinite multiverses each with Infinite universes

No. Infinite multiverses each with infinite universes is just infinifty^2

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Huh, so I misunderstood then.

Don't worry,it happens to everyone when dealing with this stuff lol.

But basically, afaik the logic behind this is that countable infinities multiplied by anything, even countable infinity, are still countable.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Don't worry,it happens to everyone when dealing with this stuff lol.

But basically, afaik the logic behind this is that countable infinities multiplied by anything, even countable infinity, are still countable.

Ah that makes sense I didn't think about it that way

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

So if Ultimas thread passes. Who would be the strongest 1-A's, H1-A's and 0's?

 

[wwereymy235]

So if Ultimas thread passes. Who would be the strongest 1-A's, H1-A's and 0's?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

So if Ultimas thread passes. Who would be the strongest 1-A's, H1-A's and 0's?

Who knows? Since all Qualitive Superiority is going to equalized, we are going to have to compare feats and abilities again. I am actually excited.

Even thought I disagree with R>F transcendence, I do think an end to "my cosmology is a bigger and better so my character wins" will be fun to watch. Now, characters will have to prove what they can do. There's going to be a lot of fodder 1-A

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Looks like tiers at 2 and up will have a lot if free spots lmao

 

[Phoenks]

So if Ultimas thread passes. Who would be the strongest 1-A's, H1-A's and 0's?

All 0s will be equivalent in Ultima's system.

The strongest 1-As will be stuff with infinite R>F layers. Probably some Umineko characters, or SCP-3812/SCP-682

Strongest High 1-As are extremely interesting.

There's two types of hierarchies in High 1-A.

You could have High 1-As that are just layers into a singular meta-qualitative hierarchy, and then High 1-As that have more "meta" hierarchies (Such as "meta-meta-meta-meta-qualitative hierarchies"). The latter are far stronger.

As it stands now, I have no idea which verse has the most "meta hierarchies." Or in other words, the most "meta-" added onto "meta-quality."

I thought it would be SCP, but honestly, probably not.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

The flood gates of the amount smurfs and 1-A there is about to be....

 

[Iiliminal]

sinbad solos

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

High 1-A Homestuck becomes real

 

[Rikimarox2]

Kinda confused about the tier 0 stuff. So like, if the verse is like tier 2 cosmology, but there is a character that is unchanging and the other stuff, would that dude be tier 0 regardless of the cosmology?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Kinda confused about the tier 0 stuff. So like, if the verse is like tier 2 cosmology, but there is a character that is unchanging and the other stuff, would that dude be tier 0 regardless of the cosmology?

You don't really need some god tier cosmology for a character to tier really really high.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Yeah. From what I'm gathering if you fit the qualifications of Tier 0 well enough (All 7 of Ultima's qualifications for it), you won't need a High 1-A Cosmology or something to be it. Not saying fitting those qualifications won't be ridiculously difficult, but it's possible to do it without some ridiculous cosmology.

For example, I'm almost completely certain from what I understand of Tier 0 that [ ] from Nasuverse fits the bill despite the fact they'll have at most a 1-A cosmology with these revisions (if their R>F qualifies) and their current Tier 1 ratings at worst

 

[Lynieryz]

About only having one tier 0, what if a character who qualifies gives his strength and existential state to another character?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

About only having one tier 0, what if a character who qualifies gives his strength and existential state to another character?

Pretty sure that counts as the whole 'Tier 0s cannot experience change' thing. So, that would disqualify it.

 

[Lynieryz]

Pretty sure that counts as the whole 'Tier 0s cannot experience change' thing. So, that would disqualify it.

No, what I meant was that this character did this without changing and remained as he always was.

That's why the question was about having just one tier 0.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Oh. Hm. I want to say that disqualified it due to the more than one Tier 0 thing is a no-go, since the Tier 0 is separate from them and not like an Avatar or something similar.

I do genuinely want to know where God / The Magician from Seeker into the Mystery plays into this. Ultima indirectly said he was one of the characters affected by the change, but I wonder to what extent, since some of the statements about God [specifically being beyond the very concept of Limitations itself] is one of the core defining traits God has, and from what I remember reading of the series, he doesn't have any antifeats of being placed at higher tier levels, and DeMatteis seems to heavily lean towards him being a Monad within the story .

 

[Phoenks]

I'm still confused on how the Root could be Tier 0 while having multiple people scale to it, including Shiki Tohno, Michael Roa, etc...

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

sinbad solos

Considering that character created a lower universe and it existed inside a aquarium, would that disqualify it from R>F since the universe isn’t exactly an empty set to higher characters?

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I'm still confused on how the Root could be Tier 0 while having multiple people scale to it, including Shiki Tohno, Michael Roa, etc...

They dont directly scale to it, thats the reason

 

[Phoenks]

They dont directly scale to it, thats the reason

So what exactly do they scale to?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

From what I'm gathering people scale to the Root , but not [ ] , since it by pure definition of what it is isn't really possible for anyone to scale to it by pure definition.