The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

[FaxNovuuuuu]

In regards to TES tiers I’m assuming they will go like this

Nirn: 2B (really should be 2-A tbh but whatever)

Mundus: High 1-B

Oblivion: 1-A

Aetherius: 1-A

Aurbis: High 1A

Anu/Anuiel and Padhome/Sithis : High 1-A+

Amaranth: 0

I’m also guessing that Ruling Kings will be High 1-A+ and likely the Numidium?

 

[Agnaa]

So any random statement about "beyond time and space" can vary from nothing to Low 1-C to 1-A?

What's the difference between L1C and 1A in that case?

It wouldn't get Low 1-C.

Lowballing it like that is one of the things Ultima explicitly took issue with during these revisions. All qualifying examples of BDE Type 2 would be Low 1-A at minimum.

 

[Wesker018]

can a High 1-A+ beat the shit out of another High 1-A+? Or will they be considered equal?

 

[Agnaa]

can a High 1-A+ beat the shit out of another High 1-A+? Or will they be considered equal?

I'm not fully sure now that multiple characters can qualify for a tier. I suspected they'd be treated as having equal AP (although potentially unique hax), but idk what would happen if a series showed a High 1-A+ having higher AP than another one.

Halp @Ultima_Reality

 

[Fixxed]

Low 1-C would be "beyond time and space" in the sense that they're beyond conventional 3+1D space-time due to being 4+1D or 3+2D.

1-A would be "beyond time and space" in the sense that they're beyond the very notions of physical composition or the distinctions between points in mathematical space.

Well in ultima thread. I think he say there are no different between transcend time and space and transcend concept/notion of time and space

And he absolutely reject the idea of beyond time and space just will get +1 dimension. I think he say something like "if he above dimension than he above it" also "we cannot put something that literally stated to be above dimension inside a dimension"
Soo if your all nature of existence already transcend time and space, by his logic we cannot put you in time and space anymore therefore you are 1A

 

[Wesker018]

I have another question regarding the new system. I understand that to have Acausality 5 you must be someone impossible to interact with. My question is: if, for example, there is a 2-C being with Acausality 5 in a verse, and then a 1-A character is presented who sees that same character as fiction, will this 1-A character automatically be granted Aca 5? Or should this 1-A guy prove having Aca 5 in the respective meta-qualitative layer in which he is located?

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

I have another question regarding the new system. I understand that to have Acausality 5 you must be someone impossible to interact with. My question is: if, for example, there is a 2-C being with Acausality 5 in a verse, and then a 1-A character is presented who sees that same character as fiction, will this 1-A character automatically be granted Aca 5? Or should this 1-A guy prove having Aca 5 in the respective meta-qualitative layer in which he is located?

prove they have aca type 5

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

It wouldn't get Low 1-C.

Lowballing it like that is one of the things Ultima explicitly took issue with during these revisions. All qualifying examples of BDE Type 2 would be Low 1-A at minimum.

1-A Loop Hero

 

[Iiliminal]

High 1-A+ Backrooms >>> fake high 1-A+ fodders

 

[Seriall001]

I hope there will be a new return for Fire Force after the revisions are fully in place..... There is an r>f situation in that verse as well.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

I hope there will be a new return for Fire Force after the revisions are fully in place..... There is an r>f situation in that verse as well.

The cope is real.

 

[Tdjwo]

I feel like since we know how crazy revisions would be after all new tiering system get implemented, we should make a rule that only 1 or 2 verses at a time should be allowed to make a crt. Otherwise, Ultima and other admins would pass out from the flooding of requests to check out their crt's.

 

[Karabach-barabach]

I feel like since we know how crazy revisions would be after all new tiering system get implemented, we should make a rule that only 1 or 2 verses at a time should be allowed to make a crt. Otherwise, Ultima and other admins would pass out from the flooding of requests to check out their crt's.

Well, that would be a very fair compromise that protects the interests of both parties. And there's no way people ever gonna agree to it!

 

[Tdjwo]

Well, that would be a very fair compromise that protects the interests of both parties. And there's no way people ever gonna agree to it!

I don't see why no one would agree to it. Unless they want their verse to be ignored. If I was a mod and I got 20+ requests at the same time to check out crts, I would ignore every single one.

 

[Karabach-barabach]

I don't see why no one would agree to it. Unless they want their verse to be ignored. If I was a mod and I got 20+ requests at the same time to check out crts, I would ignore every single one.

(well, guess my humor really sucks)

 

[Tanin_iver]

If I was a mod and I got 20+ requests at the same time to check out crts, I would ignore every single one.

I currently have 69 threads in my "to-evaluate" backlog, I've added this to the list, and will get to it eventually.

The polite way to do it.

 

[Ovy7]

1 or 2 CRTs at a time would be nice. The problem would be the order.

 

[Deagonx]

It's not a bad idea, but it's not without its downsides. Not everyone who makes threads like that writes in an organized way, not all the verses have much staff interest, so it seems likely that the process will get jammed by a couple of threads like that.

 

[Tdjwo]

1 orn2 CRTs at a time would be nice. The problem would be the order.

Start from the easier tiering. I think crts on tier 0 would be easier than crts on tier 1 because the tier 0 is more straightforward. And as for the verses, I think verses that were already tier 0 should be re-evaluated to see if they still qualify, and from that they could move downwards to lower tiers that now qualify for tier 0. Same should be done for the tier 1 crts.

 

[Trigger]

After not being here for 5 months y'all gone a long way. Everything seems to be up Utima

But I gotta ask, Toddler, what ya think dc's tiering will be?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

After not being here for 5 months y'all gone a long way. Everything seems to be up Utima

But I gotta ask, Toddler, what ya think dc's tiering will be?

Vertigo is under work since Ultima and I can't agree on some stuff.

For Matteis, 0 for God(Divine Presence and The Magician). High 1-A+ for Pralaya and Maya. Maybe High 1-A for Lords of Order and Chaos. High 1-A for CU. I don't know where Heaven will scale though.

For Crisis, since BDE is accepted at least to being Low 1-A, Hands level and upstart from there. Light and Darkness are 1-A.

Hopefully, Ultima chimes in.

 

[The_forgetten]

That's sucks bro I don't like the new system

 

[DOOMSLAYER127]

That's sucks bro I don't like the new system

What's the reason?

 

[The_forgetten]

What's the reason?

The cosmological and ontological difference includes the lower layers that can be given 0 because a character fits the monad, but there is a situation like this, there were situations that violated the monad in cosmology such as ichiban, although when we look at the lower hierarchy, even in the real world before after life, there are infinite levels of differential fiction, although the bike that opens infinite possibilities in a higher state does not make it somehow dead in the monad, because of the aperion principle, tloi was also victimized by this situation because of akuto.

 

[The_forgetten]

The cosmological and ontological difference includes the lower layers that can be given 0 because a character fits the monad, but there is a situation like this, there were situations that violated the monad in cosmology such as ichiban, although when we look at the lower hierarchy, even in the real world before after life, there are infinite levels of differential fiction, although the bike that opens infinite possibilities in a higher state does not make it somehow dead in the monad, because of the aperion principle, tloi was also victimized by this situation because of akuto.

In fact, it is ridiculous that a character that can be higher than 0 cannot be 0 because of aperion and the monad principle, because it leaves a big gap in cosmology.

 

[The_forgetten]

In fact, it is ridiculous that a character that can be higher than 0 cannot be 0 because of aperion and the monad principle, because it leaves a big gap in cosmology.

Because after higher levels, fiction be cosmo gets blocked because of monad and aperion

 

[Tdjwo]

What's bro waffling about?

 

[Wesker018]

The cosmological and ontological difference includes the lower layers that can be given 0 because a character fits the monad, but there is a situation like this, there were situations that violated the monad in cosmology such as ichiban, although when we look at the lower hierarchy, even in the real world before after life, there are infinite levels of differential fiction, although the bike that opens infinite possibilities in a higher state does not make it somehow dead in the monad, because of the aperion principle, tloi was also victimized by this situation because of akuto.

Bro, I tried my best to understand what you wrote but I failed

 

[Karabach-barabach]

The cosmological and ontological difference includes the lower layers that can be given 0 because a character fits the monad, but there is a situation like this, there were situations that violated the monad in cosmology such as ichiban, although when we look at the lower hierarchy, even in the real world before after life, there are infinite levels of differential fiction, although the bike that opens infinite possibilities in a higher state does not make it somehow dead in the monad, because of the aperion principle, tloi was also victimized by this situation because of akuto.

I think I got cognitive dissonance while reading this

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

He's referring to another scaling site that uses Aperion as the max. However, he's forgetting a Monad can be false and reduced to 1-A.

 

[The_forgetten]

Bro, I tried my best to understand what you wrote but I failed

I have a bit of a problem with my English, man, but if you wanted to understand, I'm sure you would understand.

 

[The_forgetten]

What's bro waffling about?

Something you can't understand is a problem with the monad.

 

[The_forgetten]

What's bro waffling about?

Don't talk to me about babbling, brother, it's not like you all blindly believe in ultima

 

[Woomica]

Don't talk to me about babbling, brother, it's not like you all blindly believe in ultima

how bro felt after saying that

 

[The_forgetten]

He's referring to another scaling site that uses Aperion as the max. However, he's forgetting a Monad can be false and reduced to 1-A.

What I'm talking about, my friend, is that the monad is problematic in some cosmologies because it leaves too big gaps.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

What I'm talking about, my friend, is that the monad is problematic in some cosmologies because it leaves too big gaps.

It has already been explained how it works. A Monad being 0 has to be proven to be true. Some verse may not even have a true Monad, so there wouldn't be a gap unless there's nothing to suggest the existence of Modal possible worlds or a framework of a 0 twt originated and encompasses some hierarchy. Some verses with a Mond would still cap at 1-A.

 

[The_forgetten]

It has already been explained how it works. A Monad being 0 has to be proven to be true. Some verse may not even have a true Monad, so there wouldn't be a gap unless there's nothing to suggest the existence of Modal possible worlds or a framework of a 0 twt originated and encompasses some hierarchy. Some verses with a Mond would still cap at 1-A.

Why limit the verses because of the monad when they can be at a higher level? The monad is like limiting a cosmology that includes higher levels of fiction, since layers like h1a are dependent on the monad, and even in basic cosmology, the character that emerges at h1a is curtailed towards the middle of the cosmology because of the monad and aperion, and this cosmological and ontological detail is overlooked. what ultiman is doing is just collapsing the system, as you said, for the monad to be supported, the lower layers need to be proven, but if a cosmology that already has higher layers is blocked in the monad, there is a problem, if a td3 trait is Mr or Emr will die, if there is no character that does not fit in the monad, it is blocked in the h1a or h1a+ layers.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Why limit the verses because of the monad when they can be at a higher level? The monad is like limiting a cosmology that includes higher levels of fiction, since layers like h1a are dependent on the monad, and even in basic cosmology, the character that emerges at h1a is curtailed towards the middle of the cosmology because of the monad and aperion, and this cosmological and ontological detail is overlooked. what ultiman is doing is just collapsing the system, as you said, for the monad to be supported, the lower layers need to be proven, but if a cosmology that already has higher layers is blocked in the monad, there is a problem, if a td3 trait is Mr or Emr will die, if there is no character that does not fit in the monad, it is blocked in the h1a or h1a+ layers.

If a High 1-A+ exists then in probability a tier 0 would also exist encompassing and being beyond all logical axioms, possible worlds, and possible contingency.

A false Monad can be connected to just one set of axioms and one probability as opposed to all sets of logical axioms. So even a true Monad would encompass a false one. Unless, there's no proof that a 0 can exist in that verse.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

It has already been explained how it works. A Monad being 0 has to be proven to be true. Some verse may not even have a true Monad, so there wouldn't be a gap unless there's nothing to suggest the existence of Modal possible worlds or a framework of a 0 twt originated and encompasses some hierarchy. Some verses with a Mond would still cap at 1-A.

More specifically, verses with fake Monads can really be at any tier, but if the thing is properly defined (Undifferentiated, transdual, yada yada), it's 0. You don't exactly need to spell out everything if the basic definition for the tier is met, of course.

What I'm talking about, my friend, is that the monad is problematic in some cosmologies because it leaves too big gaps.

Wouldn't say that's a bug so much as a feature. Tier 0 being totally cosmology-independent isn't really an issue. Nothing wrong with a verse that's otherwise 3-A or Low 2-C having a Tier 0.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

This guy decides to pop out of nowhere. Elder Scroll will have both a 0 and a High 1-A+?