• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

VeryGoofyToddler said:
Eğer Yüksek 1-A+ varsa, o zaman büyük olan tüm aralık aksiyomları, olası dünyaları ve olası olasılıkları kapsayan ve bunların ötesinde bir kademe 0 da mevcut olacaktır.

Yanlış bir Monad, tüm şerit aksiyom kümelerinin aksine yalnızca bir dizi aksiyom ve tek bir olasılığa bağlanabilir. Yani gerçek bir Monad bile sahte bir Monad'ı kapsar. Tabi bu ayette 0'ın var olabileceğine dair bir delil
Click to expand...

Ultima_Reality said:
Daha spesifik olarak, sahte Monad'lara sahip ayetler gerçekten herhangi bir seviyede olabilir, ancak eğer şey düzgün bir şekilde tanımlanmışsa (Farklılaşmamış, transdual, yada yada yada), 0'dır. Seviyenin temel tanımı gerekiyorsa, her şeyi tam olarak hecelemenize gerek yoktur. elbette karşılanır.


Bunun bir özellikten ziyade bir hata olduğunu söyleyemem. Seviye 0'ın tamamen kozmolojiden bağımsız olması gerçekten bir sorun değil. Aksi takdirde 3-A veya Düşük 2-C olan bir ayetin Seviye 0'a sahip olmasında yanlış bir şey yoktur.
Click to expand...
Ultima, what I want to ask is that we already know that a character that conforms to monadicity in a similar way to the transcendental and Hebrew theories can actually be 0 if it encompasses a construct such as Modal reality, but in order for monadicity and aperion not to be fully violated, this entity must be completely eternal, that is, it must be suitable for a singular beginning, not as a character that is later encompassed and elevated, so wouldn't this already restrict cosmologies at levels 1a or higher?
 
Ultima, I have a question. If there is a character "A" with Aca 5 and Transudality type 3, and then a character "B" is presented who sees the previous one as fiction, will the latter also have the previous hax by transcending character "A"?
 
Ultima_Reality said:
More specifically, verses with fake Monads can really be at any tier, but if the thing is properly defined (Undifferentiated, transdual, yada yada), it's 0. You don't exactly need to spell out everything if the basic definition for the tier is met, of course.


Wouldn't say that's a bug so much as a feature. Tier 0 being totally cosmology-independent isn't really an issue. Nothing wrong with a verse that's otherwise 3-A or Low 2-C having a Tier 0.
Click to expand...
In the case you are talking about then, if the instance of a character that does not have a singular origin, i.e. a primordial being, can only contain the Mr contained in a fictional layer higher than the hierarchy at level 2^n, this makes it 0. Doesn't it have a singular origin for this, so there is no problem for the ichiban in this case?
 
The_forgetten said:
Ultima, what I want to ask is that we already know that a character that conforms to monadicity in a similar way to the transcendental and Hebrew theories can actually be 0 if it encompasses a construct such as Modal reality, but in order for monadicity and aperion not to be fully violated, this entity must be completely eternal, that is, it must be suitable for a singular beginning, not as a character that is later encompassed and elevated, so wouldn't this already restrict cosmologies at levels 1a or higher?
Click to expand...
The "modal reality" doesn't need to be there, but minor nitpick aside: Yeah, a verse can end up locked beneath Tier 0 if its supreme reality ends up demonstrating such limitations.

Wesker018 said:
Ultima, I have a question. If there is a character "A" with Aca 5 and Transudality type 3, and then a character "B" is presented who sees the previous one as fiction, will the latter also have the previous hax by transcending character "A"?
Click to expand...
I won't speak for Transduality, since I plan to revise that whole thing. For Acausality, the answer is no.

The_forgetten said:
In the case you are talking about then, if the instance of a character that does not have a singular origin, i.e. a primordial being, can only contain the Mr contained in a fictional layer higher than the hierarchy at level 2^n, this makes it 0. Doesn't it have a singular origin for this, so there is no problem for the ichiban in this case?
Click to expand...
I don't understand the question. Can you rephrase?
 
Ultima_Reality said:
More specifically, verses with fake Monads can really be at any tier, but if the thing is properly defined (Undifferentiated, transdual, yada yada), it's 0. You don't exactly need to spell out everything if the basic definition for the tier is met, of course.


Wouldn't say that's a bug so much as a feature. Tier 0 being totally cosmology-independent isn't really an issue. Nothing wrong with a verse that's otherwise 3-A or Low 2-C having a Tier 0.
Click to expand...
You talk about a specific tabim, but you still don't say whether non-primitive entities will be 0 when they scale cosmologically, as required by monadism and the aperion principle?
 
The_forgetten said:
Dostum demek istediğim monad ve aperion ilkesine göre varoluşun temeli ve başlangıcı olan bir aşkın olması gerektiği gibi, sonattan bu güne kadar ortaya çıkan bir karakter için de aşkın tanımı yapılabilir mi? seviye, örneğin 2^n seviyeli bir hiyerarşi, yani mantıksal düzlemleri ve olasılık seviyelerini içeren l1a'dan daha yüksek bir kurgu katmanını içeren bir Mr. Eğer öyleyse (bu tekil olarak değil sonradan oluşan bir durumdur) 0 olması için yeterli olur mu yoksa h1a ile mi sınırlı kalır çünkü aperion ilkelerinde temel bir varlık olduğunu inkar eden bir durumdur Bildiğiniz gibi, bildiğiniz gibi ichiban'da yaşam öncesi öncesi ve sonrası, gerçek dünyada bile kurgunun farklı seviyeleri var, aslında bunu pek mantıklı bulmuyorum çünkü kozmolojiyi biraz kilitliyor.
Click to expand...
Speak English.

The_forgetten said:
I think what you want to do with trandualty is to give these features 1a or higher tiers in the 2020 system, am I wrong?
Click to expand...
No, I'm moreso beginning to think Transduality is defined awfully and the only decent way to redefine it would leave it as a meaningless and redundant power to anything other than Tier 0s.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
Speak English.


No, I'm moreso beginning to think Transduality is defined awfully and the only decent way to redefine it would leave it as a meaningless and redundant power to anything other than Tier 0s.
Click to expand...
I dont follow these whatever new tier 1 and 0 stuff is going now but if according to new changes if R>F is now 1-A how will qualitative superiority and hde work?
 
Woomica said:
I dont follow these whatever new tier 1 and 0 stuff is going now but if according to new changes if R>F is now 1-A how will qualitative superiority and hde work?
Click to expand...
HDE works the same as it did then. We're just not calling it "qualitative superiority" anymore. That term is 1-A-exclusive.

Ben_CleverName said:
Q: "How can there be multiple --"
A: "There can be."
(y)
Click to expand...
8op2q7.png
 
Hey Ultima, did you answer this?
Agnaa said:
I'm not fully sure now that multiple characters can qualify for a tier. I suspected they'd be treated as having equal AP (although potentially unique hax), but idk what would happen if a series showed a High 1-A+ having higher AP than another one.

Halp @Ultima_Reality
Click to expand...
 
Ben_CleverName said:
You have no point. Their question was about "How", not "Can". You relied on Ultima to give his answer again.

Edit: This might be coming off as meaner than I intend it, I'm not trying to antagonize anyone or make them feel bad, I just think the question could've been responded a bit better.
Click to expand...
It was mainly a joke. So no offense taken. I answered it so quickly, that I forgot to link the response from the thread to which Ultima explained it. Though, given he himself answered it, my response was treated more of a retort than anything else.
 
I'm very smart FYI. I wanted to clear that up and I just so happened to read it wrong. So I am very much intellectually capable of answering the question “the right way”. wink wink hint hint
 
Tdjwo said:
I don't see why no one would agree to it. Unless they want their verse to be ignored. If I was a mod and I got 20+ requests at the same time to check out crts, I would ignore every single one.
Click to expand...
Just set yourself up a pace and you can get through all fairly quick, I once speedran through 90+ notifications just to get back at a DB revision
 
Agnaa said:
Yeah, but Ultima doesn't think we should assume that they have strange explanations by default. That's why "above dimensions" without any additional context would be Low 1-A, and it would only need a little more context to be 1-A.

Potential contradictions aside, it could. Just as how "They're from a more real world" or "They're from a more fundamental world" would.

idk why y'all're surprised; I repeatedly said "HEY EVERYONE, ULTIMA'S TRYING TO LOWER THE STANDARDS AND I THINK THAT SUCKS", to which Ultima responded "Yeah, they should be lowered" and other staff went "Seems reasonable".
Click to expand...
Does it need to be stated that platonic concepts are clearly platonic and platonic concepts 1-A


Can you also explain the contradictions of platonic concepts in detail?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

demonwarrior2266
Application of Ultima's CRT
Replies
4
Views
1K
Hypertornado099
Hypertornado099
  • Locked
VS Battles Is Nonsense / Delete My Account
Replies
6
Views
2K
Dragonite007
Dragonite007
The Boundless tier can be defined as "Transcending Modern Mathematics"
Replies
1
Views
1K
demonwarrior2266
demonwarrior2266
Ultima_Reality
  • Locked
On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System
12 13 14
Replies
530
Views
160K
Ultima_Reality
Ultima_Reality
  • Locked
How many of you guys believe in the tiering system?
Replies
14
Views
3K
Planck69
Planck69
Back
Top