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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

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Mertullah said:
Does it need to be stated that platonic concepts are clearly platonic and platonic concepts 1-A

Can you also explain the contradictions of platonic concepts in detail?
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I don't know what either of those sentences mean.
 
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VeryGoofyToddler said:
Probably the apex of that hierarchy would be 1-A+ due to the sheer amount of anti-feat for the Levithans. So the hierarchy probably won't reach High 1-A, the smallest hint of High 1-A would maybe be the Mother, but I doubt it.
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Hmm, wasn't there also some sort of staircase between the worlds that characters from lower stories could take to travel to higher or lower worlds? I remember this band of anthropomorphic cartoon animals going in a mission to leave their world and travel higher on the staircase to a better world.

Or maybe the context was difference, it had been years since I've read UnWritten. . .
 
Ovy7 said:
Hmm, wasn't there also some sort of staircase between the worlds that characters from lower stories could take to travel to higher or lower worlds? I remember this band of anthropomorphic cartoon animals going in a mission to leave their world and travel higher on the staircase to a better world.

Or maybe the context was difference, it had been years since I've read UnWritten. . .
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There was, but I don't think it's indicative of anything. I believe that's how the hierarchy of the world gets its rating of 1-A for each higher world and 1-A+ for the entire hierarchy. If the lower echelons of Levithan could surpass it then they may get 1-A+ and boost the one to transcend the whole Cetacean hierarchy with High 1-A. however, who fits that notion?

The only way they would get High 1-A by having R>F by a metafictional transcendence over the hierarchy of worlds. Honestly, @Ultima_Reality if you wanna chime in to this issue?
 
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Agnaa said:
I don't know what either of those sentences mean.
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He's saying if a verse mentions platonic, wouldn't it need to be proven to be platonic thus granting 1-A?

The second part is just saying the many contradictions with how platonic is actually used. This goes with his original point of having to prove that platonic concepts are actually “platonic” and not falsely used.

That's what I assume he meant.
 
Can multiple Tier 0s exist within a single verse?

How exactly would a Tier 0 fight play out?between verses?

(It’s interesting because Tier 0 is basically, nothing else is like it and it cannot be described, but then each verse that qualifies for Tier 0. The only differentiating factor, between verses, is that it’s a different way of explaining the same understanding (different stories, same idea)? Does this actually point to something beyond Tier 0?)
 
Lasting900 said:
Can multiple Tier 0s exist within a single verse?
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No. Only a single 0 exist per verse.
Lasting900 said:
How exactly would a Tier 0 fight play out?between verses?
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They won't. They're all equal. They'll just merge in one Unity as a singular being. The only thing separating them is ownership of fiction and that's beyond anyone control inverse.
Lasting900 said:
(It’s interesting because Tier 0 is basically, nothing else is like it and it cannot be described, but then each verse that qualifies for Tier 0. The only differentiating factor, between verses, is that it’s a different way of explaining the same understanding (different stories, same idea)? Does this actually point to something beyond Tier 0?)
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Essentially that's the gist. However, nothing can be beyond 0 or they don't qualify for 0. Unless there's proof they shouldn't be 0, to begin with like false Monadhood.
 
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I don't really care about High 1-A+ verse soloing other lower-tiered verses. I'm just being very blunt, it's straight-up, not funny, and I'm not being subtle or making myself open for some mocking. I just find it childish.
 
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Well isn't Shiki's rating literally because she uses the Root? Or even just being the Root itself?

So Shiki and the Root are kinda one and the same
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Well isn't Shiki's rating literally because she uses the Root? Or even just being the Root itself?

So Shiki and the Root are kinda one and the same
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I mean, if I were to be picky enough in this context, Shiki being the Root kind of makes the "one tier 0 per verse" invalid, but that's just my broken humor, so don't really sweat it
 
MountainWine said:
Would that not prove Root isn’t Tier 0? Or would it be that Root is Tier 0 and Shiki is H1A+?
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Why it should prove that the Root isn't tier 0 when in retrospect they are the same? Ultima made the page (in sandbox that is) for God from Divine Comedy and God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are tier 0, since they are one and the same being - God
 
So….can a tier 0 create exact copies of themselves that are also Tier 0 and can those copies proceed to create more Tier 0? If not, then any verse with such a scenario shouldn’t be Tier 0
 
Karabach-barabach said:
Meanwhile the Root and Shiki: 🤫🧏🏻‍♂️
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Karabach-barabach said:
I mean, if I were to be picky enough in this context, Shiki being the Root kind of makes the "one tier 0 per verse" invalid, but that's just my broken humor, so don't really sweat it
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MountainWine said:
Would that not prove Root isn’t Tier 0? Or would it be that Root is Tier 0 and Shiki is H1A+?
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People should at least do more research or ask someone who is actually knowledgeable on the topic before typing damn

ONwHpgL.png


Ryougi Shiki IS NOT the Root.
Void Shiki IS the Root
Void Shiki IS NOT Ryougi Shiki
 
Karabach-barabach said:
Why it should prove that the Root isn't tier 0 when in retrospect they are the same? Ultima made the page (in sandbox that is) for God from Divine Comedy and God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are tier 0, since they are one and the same being - God
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It follows Divine Simplicity, all of God’s parts are the same as his nature. It follows the Catholic doctrine that Jesus is one and the same with God.
 
Tdjwo said:
People should at least do more research or ask someone who is actually knowledgeable on the topic before typing damn

ONwHpgL.png


Ryougi Shiki IS NOT the Root.
Void Shiki IS the Root
Void Shiki IS NOT Ryougi Shiki
Click to expand...
Well, I did say that Shiki is the Root, not Ryougi Shiki exactly. See the difference? wink-wink

VeryGoofyToddler said:
It follows Divine Simplicity, all of God’s parts are the same as his nature. It follows the Catholic doctrine that Jesus is one and the same with God.
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I mean, I used this analogy primarily as a way to explain how Shiki and the Root are one and the same, so therefore it is not really a downplay on the Root side not being tier 0, so I don't understand the reason this was pointed out
 
Karabach-barabach said:
I mean, I used this analogy primarily as a way to explain how Shiki and the Root are one and the same, so therefore it is not really a downplay on the Root side not being tier 0, so I don't understand the reason this was pointed out
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I was not giving context behind that because I thought you were downplaying the Roots. I was just providing information on the relationship between God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit(Ghost) because the relationship between this example and the Roots aren't the same nor analogous.

The Roots can be achievable and used. When you get there you can access that Void and become one with it. God is just God with different faces for the same entity ie Father, Son, Holy Ghost. A better example for the Roots would be the Godhead from Elder Scroll or God from Seekers, they follow the same premise.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
I was not giving context behind that because I thought you were downplaying the Roots. I was just providing information on the relationship between God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit(Ghost) because the relationship between this example and the Roots aren't the same nor analogous.
Click to expand...
Well then, I think getting new cracks in the brain is better than being scolded on the Internet for using religious concepts in powerscaling. But my thought process is apparently impossible to understand for most of the people, so I better leave this discussion at what it currently is
 
Tdjwo said:
So why would Shiki and Root not be Tier 0 according to you?
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Let me get this straight:
Karabach-barabach said:
Meanwhile the Root and Shiki: 🤫🧏🏻‍♂️
Click to expand...
this comment made you think that I doubt the Root and Shiki aren't tier 0? Even though later on I wrote this:
Karabach-barabach said:
Why it should prove that the Root isn't tier 0 when in retrospect they are the same?
Click to expand...
?
I mean, if I was an avid Nasuverse hater (which I'm not btw, just had unfortunate encounters with the fans in my life, and even then I'm at best neutral), I would've understood the thought process, but this entire assumption just simply falls off the moment you reread the message above, because there I proooobably stated that the Root and Shiki being one and the same isn't a disqualifier for the Root's tier 0
 
Karabach-barabach said:
Let me get this straight:

this comment made you think that I doubt the Root and Shiki aren't tier 0? Even though later on I wrote this:

?
I mean, if I was an avid Nasuverse hater (which I'm not btw, just had unfortunate encounters with the fans in my life, and even then I'm at best neutral), I would've understood the thought process, but this entire assumption just simply falls off the moment you reread the message above, because there I proooobably stated that the Root and Shiki being one and the same isn't a disqualifier for the Root's tier 0
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I never said you were a hater. I simply pointed out where and why you were wrong when you said this
Karabach-barabach said:
I mean, if I were to be picky enough in this context, Shiki being the Root kind of makes the "one tier 0 per verse" invalid, but that's just my broken humor, so don't really sweat it
Click to expand...
You implied that Shiki being the root makes the tier 0 requirements invalid. In order words, they shouldnt be tier 0. That's how I interpreted it. Maybe I interpreted it wrong, idk.
 
Tdjwo said:
You implied that Shiki being the root makes the tier 0 requirements invalid. In order words, they shouldnt be tier 0. That's how I interpreted it. Maybe I interpreted it wrong, idk.
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Everyone makes mistakes, man. But really, even in the recent comment I pointed out that I don't think the Root is disqualified from being tier 0 cuz of Shiki. If I were to agree with this assumption (of the Root not being tier 0), then I would've either ignored the comment or worded it differently
Karabach-barabach said:
Why it should prove that the Root isn't tier 0 when in retrospect they are the same?
Click to expand...
I mean, again, here I wrote this to point out that "just because Shiki is the Root (I think I don't have to specify about which Shiki I'm talking about here) that doesn't mean that the Root isn't tier 0". Hell, I wouldn't have gone with the comparison with God from Divine Comedy to further expand on this point if I were to think otherwise (that the Root isn't tier 0, I mean)

But maybe that's just my language and writing style, I dunno 🗿
 
Karabach-barabach said:
Everyone makes mistakes, man. But really, even in the recent comment I pointed out that I don't think the Root is disqualified from being tier 0 cuz of Shiki. If I were to agree with this assumption (of the Root not being tier 0), then I would've either ignored the comment or worded it differently

I mean, again, here I wrote this to point out that "just because Shiki is the Root (I think I don't have to specify about which Shiki I'm talking about here) that doesn't mean that the Root isn't tier 0". Hell, I wouldn't have gone with the comparison with God from Divine Comedy to further expand on this point if I were to think otherwise (that the Root isn't tier 0, I mean)

But maybe that's just my language and writing style, I dunno 🗿
Click to expand...
I guess I just misinterpreted you. My bad.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
He's saying if a verse mentions platonic, wouldn't it need to be proven to be platonic thus granting 1-A?

The second part is just saying the many contradictions with how platonic is actually used. This goes with his original point of having to prove that platonic concepts are actually “platonic” and not falsely used.

That's what I assume he meant.
Click to expand...
iirc one wouldn't need to prove it, but it would need to not have noteworthy contradictions.
Lasting900 said:
Can multiple Tier 0s exist within a single verse?
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Only if they're ultimately the same being.
Lasting900 said:
How exactly would a Tier 0 fight play out?between verses?
Click to expand...
It wouldn't.
Lasting900 said:
and it cannot be described
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It can.
Lasting900 said:
Does this actually point to something beyond Tier 0?
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Yeah but it's too speculative/contradictory for us to actually include in our system.
 
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