Agnaa
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I don't know what either of those sentences mean.
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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"
- Thread starter Iamunanimousinthat
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Ovy7
He/Him- 2,629
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Hmm, wasn't there also some sort of staircase between the worlds that characters from lower stories could take to travel to higher or lower worlds? I remember this band of anthropomorphic cartoon animals going in a mission to leave their world and travel higher on the staircase to a better world.
Or maybe the context was difference, it had been years since I've read UnWritten. . .
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There was, but I don't think it's indicative of anything. I believe that's how the hierarchy of the world gets its rating of 1-A for each higher world and 1-A+ for the entire hierarchy. If the lower echelons of Levithan could surpass it then they may get 1-A+ and boost the one to transcend the whole Cetacean hierarchy with High 1-A. however, who fits that notion?
The only way they would get High 1-A by having R>F by a metafictional transcendence over the hierarchy of worlds. Honestly, @Ultima_Reality if you wanna chime in to this issue?
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He's saying if a verse mentions platonic, wouldn't it need to be proven to be platonic thus granting 1-A?
The second part is just saying the many contradictions with how platonic is actually used. This goes with his original point of having to prove that platonic concepts are actually “platonic” and not falsely used.
That's what I assume he meant.
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Can multiple Tier 0s exist within a single verse?
How exactly would a Tier 0 fight play out?between verses?
(It’s interesting because Tier 0 is basically, nothing else is like it and it cannot be described, but then each verse that qualifies for Tier 0. The only differentiating factor, between verses, is that it’s a different way of explaining the same understanding (different stories, same idea)? Does this actually point to something beyond Tier 0?)
How exactly would a Tier 0 fight play out?between verses?
(It’s interesting because Tier 0 is basically, nothing else is like it and it cannot be described, but then each verse that qualifies for Tier 0. The only differentiating factor, between verses, is that it’s a different way of explaining the same understanding (different stories, same idea)? Does this actually point to something beyond Tier 0?)
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No. Only a single 0 exist per verse.
They won't. They're all equal. They'll just merge in one Unity as a singular being. The only thing separating them is ownership of fiction and that's beyond anyone control inverse.
Essentially that's the gist. However, nothing can be beyond 0 or they don't qualify for 0. Unless there's proof they shouldn't be 0, to begin with like false Monadhood.
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Not very funny, but sure.
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haha high 1-a+ backrooms no diffs high 1-A and 1-A fodders
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I don't really care about High 1-A+ verse soloing other lower-tiered verses. I'm just being very blunt, it's straight-up, not funny, and I'm not being subtle or making myself open for some mocking. I just find it childish.
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Elder Scrolls absolutely DEMOLISHES Baki no debate.
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That I have no problem with.
Karabach-barabach
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Well isn't Shiki's rating literally because she uses the Root? Or even just being the Root itself?
So Shiki and the Root are kinda one and the same
So Shiki and the Root are kinda one and the same
Karabach-barabach
Username Only- 301
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I mean, if I were to be picky enough in this context, Shiki being the Root kind of makes the "one tier 0 per verse" invalid, but that's just my broken humor, so don't really sweat it
MountainWine
He/Him- 96
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Would that not prove Root isn’t Tier 0? Or would it be that Root is Tier 0 and Shiki is H1A+?
Karabach-barabach
Username Only- 301
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Why it should prove that the Root isn't tier 0 when in retrospect they are the same? Ultima made the page (in sandbox that is) for God from Divine Comedy and God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are tier 0, since they are one and the same being - God
MountainWine
He/Him- 96
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So….can a tier 0 create exact copies of themselves that are also Tier 0 and can those copies proceed to create more Tier 0? If not, then any verse with such a scenario shouldn’t be Tier 0
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The Former.
Tdjwo
He/Him- 3,180
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Meanwhile the Root and Shiki:
People should at least do more research or ask someone who is actually knowledgeable on the topic before typing damn
Ryougi Shiki IS NOT the Root.
Void Shiki IS the Root
Void Shiki IS NOT Ryougi Shiki
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It follows Divine Simplicity, all of God’s parts are the same as his nature. It follows the Catholic doctrine that Jesus is one and the same with God.
Tdjwo
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Karabach-barabach
Username Only- 301
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Well, I did say that Shiki is the Root, not Ryougi Shiki exactly. See the difference? wink-winkPeople should at least do more research or ask someone who is actually knowledgeable on the topic before typing damn
Ryougi Shiki IS NOT the Root.
Void Shiki IS the Root
Void Shiki IS NOT Ryougi Shiki
I mean, I used this analogy primarily as a way to explain how Shiki and the Root are one and the same, so therefore it is not really a downplay on the Root side not being tier 0, so I don't understand the reason this was pointed out
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I was not giving context behind that because I thought you were downplaying the Roots. I was just providing information on the relationship between God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit(Ghost) because the relationship between this example and the Roots aren't the same nor analogous.
The Roots can be achievable and used. When you get there you can access that Void and become one with it. God is just God with different faces for the same entity ie Father, Son, Holy Ghost. A better example for the Roots would be the Godhead from Elder Scroll or God from Seekers, they follow the same premise.
Tdjwo
He/Him- 3,180
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So why would Shiki and Root not be Tier 0 according to you?
Karabach-barabach
Username Only- 301
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Well then, I think getting new cracks in the brain is better than being scolded on the Internet for using religious concepts in powerscaling. But my thought process is apparently impossible to understand for most of the people, so I better leave this discussion at what it currently is
Karabach-barabach
Username Only- 301
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Let me get this straight:
this comment made you think that I doubt the Root and Shiki aren't tier 0? Even though later on I wrote this:Meanwhile the Root and Shiki:
?
I mean, if I was an avid Nasuverse hater (which I'm not btw, just had unfortunate encounters with the fans in my life, and even then I'm at best neutral), I would've understood the thought process, but this entire assumption just simply falls off the moment you reread the message above, because there I proooobably stated that the Root and Shiki being one and the same isn't a disqualifier for the Root's tier 0
Tdjwo
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I never said you were a hater. I simply pointed out where and why you were wrong when you said this
You implied that Shiki being the root makes the tier 0 requirements invalid. In order words, they shouldnt be tier 0. That's how I interpreted it. Maybe I interpreted it wrong, idk.
Karabach-barabach
Username Only- 301
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Everyone makes mistakes, man. But really, even in the recent comment I pointed out that I don't think the Root is disqualified from being tier 0 cuz of Shiki. If I were to agree with this assumption (of the Root not being tier 0), then I would've either ignored the comment or worded it differently
I mean, again, here I wrote this to point out that "just because Shiki is the Root (I think I don't have to specify about which Shiki I'm talking about here) that doesn't mean that the Root isn't tier 0". Hell, I wouldn't have gone with the comparison with God from Divine Comedy to further expand on this point if I were to think otherwise (that the Root isn't tier 0, I mean)
But maybe that's just my language and writing style, I dunno
Trigger
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Ha, I remember this as my proposal that one time~~~ Damn, I miss earlier this year when I didn't have to serve some stupid country of mine.
Tdjwo
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I guess I just misinterpreted you. My bad.Everyone makes mistakes, man. But really, even in the recent comment I pointed out that I don't think the Root is disqualified from being tier 0 cuz of Shiki. If I were to agree with this assumption (of the Root not being tier 0), then I would've either ignored the comment or worded it differently
I mean, again, here I wrote this to point out that "just because Shiki is the Root (I think I don't have to specify about which Shiki I'm talking about here) that doesn't mean that the Root isn't tier 0". Hell, I wouldn't have gone with the comparison with God from Divine Comedy to further expand on this point if I were to think otherwise (that the Root isn't tier 0, I mean)
But maybe that's just my language and writing style, I dunno
Karabach-barabach
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It's ok, don't sweat it. I'm used to being misinterpreted for a very long time anyway
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From what I hear Low 1-A/1-A.
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I'm not against the Atzmus being 0 and I asked Ultima and he said maybe after a reread.
Agnaa
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iirc one wouldn't need to prove it, but it would need to not have noteworthy contradictions.
Only if they're ultimately the same being.
It wouldn't.
It can.
Yeah but it's too speculative/contradictory for us to actually include in our system.
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Same difference.
Agnaa
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It's quite the difference! It changes the default case with minimal information.
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Well if it's not used right ie contradictions then it's just not useable. So my point stands.
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