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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

Karabach-barabach said:
Speaking of, would Ruphas Mafahl benefit from the tiering system changes in any way? The same goes for Alovenus or maybe even Benetnash
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Already talked to Ultima about this, if Alovenus' mana was what used to allow them to ascend. Then that is an anti-feat to the mana being a higher reality substance because lower reality beings interacted with it by absorbing it.

If the mana is not a higher reality substance then that means Alovenus' realm is not a higher reality because lower reality beings were able to cross over to it without the assistance of a higher reality power, which is a massive anti-feat.

Also Alovenus and Ruphas ascending the higher levels under their own power during their fight, also massive anti-feat to those higher levels being higher realties for the same reason.
 
Everything12 said:
Already talked to Ultima about this, if Alovenus' mana was what used to allow them to ascend. Then that is an anti-feat to the mana being a higher reality substance because lower reality beings interacted with it by absorbing it.

If the mana is not a higher reality substance then that means Alovenus' realm is not a higher reality because lower reality beings were able to cross over to it without the assistance of a higher reality power, which is a massive anti-feat.

Also Alovenus and Ruphas ascending the higher levels under their own power during their fight, also massive anti-feat to those higher levels being higher realties for the same reason.
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So no 1-A Ruphas-Alovenus-Benetnash? That's sad news for me
 
I mean their is a chance on a more in-depth look that their might be an explanation on how they absorbed the mana attributed to Dina or some other goddess avatar thing and that might make it not an anti-feat, but as of now it doesn't look good.
 
An infinite multiverse has infinite insignificant 5D spaces. You can essentially argue, all tier 2 (aside from low 2-c) require some 5D range. This was acknowledged, but because the space between universes are seen as insignificant, it wouldn’t warrant anything with higher tier due to the lack of qualitive superiority. But now that qualitative superiority is 1-A and above, do we still just treat it as something too insignificant to bother tier?
 
This is funny because of a recent CRT I made.

But anyway, I'm pretty sure Tier 2 range is basically 5D range that is too insignificant to affect an actual 5D structure, as the range needed to effect even an infinite number of 4D objects is insignificant compared to a proper 5D object, and how much space divides these objects is pretty much never clarified enough to have any clue if it would make it significant or not, so we just default with the low ball.

Basically Tier 2-C to 2-A is basically not quite 4D but not anywhere close to quite 5D and exists because multiverses are just so popular, but it just doesn't have the evidence needed to prove that it can cross the significant size difference that is fundamental to Higher-Dimensional Existence's invincibility. None of this have changed.

Basically only ontological differences are qualitative but for higher dimensions quantitative differences are just the exact same thing under a different name.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
An infinite multiverse has infinite insignificant 5D spaces. You can essentially argue, all tier 2 (aside from low 2-c) require some 5D range. This was acknowledged, but because the space between universes are seen as insignificant, it wouldn’t warrant anything with higher tier due to the lack of qualitive superiority. But now that qualitative superiority is 1-A and above, do we still just treat it as something too insignificant to bother tier?
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Yes. We initially said that because the space was insignificant in terms of granting another uncountable infinity, which we previously erroneously referred to as a qualitative superiority. That we no longer refer to it with that term doesn't invalidate the logic.
 
Everything12 said:
Low 1-A is for Type IV Multiverses that only encompass all possible multiverse involving mathematics and dimensions and non-ontological things. High 1-A+ is Type IV Multiverses that is proven to include ontological things like Reality-Fiction and 1-A things.
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Type IV Multiverses, by their definition, involve such a structure being equivalent to all of mathematics, so that would be an anti-feat which bumps it down to Low 1-A.

High 1-A+ are things that are similar to Type IV multiverses, but don't involve the invocation of mathematical equivalence, and include ontological things.
Iamunanimousinthat said:
An infinite multiverse has infinite insignificant 5D spaces. You can essentially argue, all tier 2 (aside from low 2-c) require some 5D range. This was acknowledged, but because the space between universes are seen as insignificant, it wouldn’t warrant anything with higher tier due to the lack of qualitive superiority. But now that qualitative superiority is 1-A and above, do we still just treat it as something too insignificant to bother tier?
Click to expand...
Yes. That has absolutely nothing to do with these revisions, so it won't be changed.
 
Agnaa said:
High 1-A+ are things that are similar to Type IV multiverses, but don't involve the invocation of mathematical equivalence, and include ontological things.
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I guess I need to learn how to reforge my own opinions before quickly throwing them into the trashcan as soon as I find at least a small piece of contradiction
 
Everything12 said:
If it's just called platonic and they don't show proper qualities of a true platonic concept or lack a sufficient explanation (or have anti-feats) then their not getting 1-A.
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I think that'd still land at 1-A, without a sufficient explanation, given how Ultima has treated all other concepts he's invoked in this revision.

Transcending and being the basis for things in reality, without being composed of things in reality, is the general definition of "platonic concepts", and is sufficient for 1-A.
 
Actually I'm think I fell for the mistake of thinking their is a lot of platonic concepts in fiction when it's actually just concepts with the platonic label being added on by supporters of the verse trying to make it sounder more impressive. If a series actual references plato by name then they probably know enough to at least give some kind of explanation (though their still might be anti-feats)... I'd hope.
 
Well well well. I'm done with my uni exams. I guess I should start cooking up some crts now.

Can we start making tier 1 and above crts now?
 
Deagonx said:
It's not really practical to do this. All they really would have to do is refer to someone else's argument.


Because the logic used to place a Monad at Tier 0 is incompatible with the idea that High 1-A transcendence could reach it.


Again, the reasoning used for the proposal is incompatible with this.
Click to expand...
Could deagon be cooking for once
caption_3.webp
 
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