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The Boys TV Show, Massive Upgrades on the way!

Qawsedf234 said:
He coughed up blood didn't he? That's more than what they did.
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I'm pretty sure that was dust/smoke in his mouth he was coughing up. And I'm pretty sure we agreed it wasn't blood either, I've brought this up way before.

Why exactly is his blood coming out like smoke, and a different color?

Your mention of Tier 7 makes it seem like the number itself is an issue. "I just don't know if that really warrants Tier 7 scaling."

Tier 7 scaling isn't he issue. You should be saying you don't know if that means they scale to his durability.

But saying that implies it being tier 7 means the damage they inflict can't scale to them. I guess you didn't mean it like that, but the way you phrased it made it seem like you did.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Tier 7 scaling isn't he issue. You should be saying you don't know if that means they scale to his durability.
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I did say that. They hit him dozens of times between three of them and it did basically nothing.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I did say that. They hit him dozens of times between three of them and it did basically nothing.
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Ignoring the fact he grunts and wince in pain, even gets the wind knocked out of him when he gets hit in the gut. When the explosion itself didn't even do that kind of damage to him. Unless you have reason to believe what he coughs up is blood for some reason? He was basically injury free from the blast, just really dirty.

They did hurt him with their attacks. This isn't anime where he is going to magically grow dozens of marks on his body when punched multiple times. Him grunting and wincing in actual pain means they're hurting him. Can you explain to me if I'm just be stupid right now, because I admit I'm not the smartest guy around.

Why did he even run away if they can't hurt him at all? Clearly they scale to his durability in some way right now.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Him grunting and wincing in actual pain means they're hurting him. Can you explain to me if I'm just be stupid right now, because I admit I'm not the smartest guy around.
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Just reacting to something doesn't always mean people scale to them. Its why we don't scale everyone to Thanos and why staggering is a thing. Homelander only had one lasting injury from the fight and it was a single cheek mark.

Also I don't think that works for the boys. In other fights against near equals we directly seem major body damage or blood coming from their hits. Which didn't happen to Homelander here.
TheRustyOne said:
Why did he even run away if they can't hurt him at all?
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True. I just don't really see why causing what amounts to be zero damage after dozens of hits means any of them scale to his durability. I also don't think Homelander should scale to his own durability at the moment.

But if I'm outvoted its whatever. I just think basing it entirely off of a single bruise that doesn't even look that notable really means much.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Just reacting to something doesn't always mean people scale to them. Its why we don't scale everyone to Thanos and why staggering is a thing. Homelander only had one lasting injury from the fight and it was a single cheek mark.
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Cause he wasn't just staggered he visibly in pain, he was hurting from their hits. Homelander himself even ran away from them, meaning he wasn't okay with what was happening. Maybe he was only scared of the big blast and that is why he ran? But he was thrown around and obviously hurting.

He ran away from people who didn't even hurt him at all? He wasn't just pushed around. His expression from being hit was of pain, he even kneeled forward an gasp when he was punched in the gut by Soldier Boy. Who everyone, including himself, have said he is almost as stronger as Homelander.

Even with regards to durability, since they believed whatever could kill Homelander could kill Soldier Boy. Homelander is stronger, but he's still comparable to him.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
But if I'm outvoted its whatever. I just think basing it entirely off of a single bruise that doesn't even look that notable really means much.
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Tbf this site has downscaled for less but that's a topic for another time. Overall I'm neutral until S3 ends since there's clearly more context that hasn't been shown or stated yet.
 
Neat. I would also like to note that while Homelander didn't take much damage, when people get into fights irl, there are instances where there isn't much in terms of bruising and redness, but those people are still physically comparable most of the time.

Also, Homelander states Soldier Boy is the only one on his level physically, which definietely warrants downscaling.

I'm okay with waiting, although I don't think it's necessary.
 
TheRustyOne said:
I personally say to wait until the season is over before upgrading anyone. All of this can become pointless if we get another fight.
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I agree that we should wait until the season ends.
But yeah, I think Butcher and Soldier Boy should downscale from Homelander, with Butcher's laser beams and possibly SB's blasts being outright on Homie's level. They blatantly hurt him, matched him, and took several attacks from him. He's still stronger, but not to the point where they can't compete with him. This is consistent with the fact that they overwhelmed him when working together, and with the several statements indicating that Soldier Boy is almost as strong as Homie. Everything supports downscaling right now tbh, but still, I think it's best to wait. There will probably be a rematch, after all.
 
He didn't run cause he was scared of them physically I would say but more thanks to his mind/emotions being out of control as he lacks control over them. It's something psychological. The moment he decided it was enough, he easily threw them off and left.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I mean, I'm not really seeing that honestly.

He had three people on him that landed at least a collective dozens of hits and the most that happened was that his cheeks were sorta red. I just don't know if that really warrants Tier 7 scaling.
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Absolutely disagree, we see him get physically harmed and staggered by both physicals strikes from Butcher and Soldier Boy as well as Butcher's own Heat Vision. it's very clear cut they at least backscale to his durability considering the performance here and it's consistent with about 3 statements that claim Soldier Boy is relative to but weaker then Homelander. If someone is getting bruised by someone else's strikes and that person is said to be near your level then that's clear cut scaling. The only ones who did consistently harm Homie were Butcher and SB, Hughie mostly just staggered him without doing much to him. Considering he earlier failed to do much damage to A-Train I'm inclined to think it's an outlier for V Hughie at this point.
 
In fact, why wasn't the supersonic+ combat speed in mind? Especially when Billy and SB were keeping up with Homelander in combat and they weren't blitzed
 
Propellus said:
In fact, why wasn't the supersonic+ combat speed in mind? Especially when Billy and SB were keeping up with Homelander in combat and they weren't blitzed
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Well Soldier Boy was blitzed by Homelander's full movement speed. Reaction speed/movement speed are different.
 
But I mean black Noir dodged Homelander flying at full speed, so I'm not saying scailing them to Supersonic + is invalid,just wanted to bring it up for discussion.
 
Uh this went on for a while but while I think it’s pretty clear Homelander is more durable than he is strong (take him being able to use laser vision fine while Billy, who was sort of comparable to him, got hurt from using the same output with laser vision Homelander was), they definitely upscale from the explosion, which only made Homelander cough cause of the smoke.


As for speed scaling, supersonic+ combat speed would still apply since he still had to be doing complex actions while the explosion was ongoing anyway. Flight speed is probably higher than combat speed though yeah
 
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Tago238 said:
Uh this went on for a while but while I think it’s pretty clear Homelander is more durable than he is strong (take him being able to use laser vision fine while Billy, who was sort of comparable to him got hurt from it), they definitely upscale from the explosion, which only made Homelander cough cause of the smoke.
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I agree, but Homelander only slightly upscaled from the explosion in the first place.
 
Tago238 said:
take him being able to use laser vision fine while Billy, who was sort of comparable to him, got hurt from using the same output with laser vision Homelander was
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i think that's a matter of billy having less control over his powers due to being far less experienced. his lasers seems to affect him less the more he uses them
 
Tago238 said:
Ehhhh they kind of get stomped the tier separation seems fine for me.
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I mean Eagle Soldier Boy has scratches and bleeds during the fight, and Black Noir and Mindstorm take multiple hits from Soldier Boy, who scales to Homelander's durability. If Soldier Boy was 600000 times stronger than the rest of Payback, he would have ripped them to shreds in a single hit.
 
So Homelander's durability is an outlier? Since the scaling to Homelander's durability itself is clear and dry. But the Tier 7 rating itself doesn't fit the series?

I want to point out that using a heavily stylized cartoon flashback as proof of scaling is very hard for me to believe. Since I doubt Noir was strong enough to not only draw blood, but break out a tooth from Solider Boy with a single punch. And Mindstorm being strong enough to draw blood from him is absurd to me.

I admit that is a personal opinion, but we don't have anything to suggest Mindstorm is physically that strong.
 
TheRustyOne said:
but break out a tooth from Solider Boy with a single punch.
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Yeah that's probably the bigger issue. Unless Soldier Boy has a healing factor, none of his teeth are shown to be either cracked or missing. It was probably just how he viewed the situation.
 
Popted2 said:
by the way can someone calc his buildings destructions in episode 5?
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I personally did, but I used an assumption that the blast was 686 meters away, as it took about 2 seconds for the shockwave to reach Starlight and Hueghie, and used an angsizing formula, although it could be wrong, I got between 1.9-2.6 tons of tnt.
Qawsedf234 said:
Yeah that's probably the bigger issue. Unless Soldier Boy has a healing factor, none of his teeth are shown to be either cracked or missing. It was probably just how he viewed the situation.
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I mean healing factors like that are pretty consistent amongst characters in the verse.
TheRustyOne said:
So Homelander's durability is an outlier? Since the scaling to Homelander's durability itself is clear and dry. But the Tier 7 rating itself doesn't fit the series?
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I mean it could not be. Idk if there's much in terms of anti-feats. Sure there are feats lower than that, but most of those feats, to my memory, don't actually hurt anyone. I'm inclined to think it's due to budgetary constraints that we usually see lower level feats, don't think it's a mistake that the moment they get an animated show they add in a town level feat. (We should calculate that storm in the Groundhawk Episode, see what that gets). And the creator specifically canonized the episode with the Homelander feat because he liked it so much and found it in line with the characters, so I personally don't think it's an outlier.
TheRustyOne said:
I want to point out that using a heavily stylized cartoon flashback as proof of scaling is very hard for me to believe. Since I doubt Noir was strong enough to not only draw blood, but break out a tooth from Solider Boy with a single punch.
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Well Black Noir is one of the stronger characters in the series scaling wise, and breaking someone's tooth isn't that hard. Even then, the cartoon doesn't have to be precise anyways, it still shows us the Payback team takes hits from Soldier Boy, and almost overwhelms him when working together.
TheRustyOne said:
I admit that is a personal opinion, but we don't have anything to suggest Mindstorm is physically that strong.
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Mindstorm was able to take a few shots to the face from Soldier Boy's super heavy pointed Shield before his face caved in. Actually makes a decent amount of sense. I think it's just the "Oh psychic characters can't be physiclly strong" stereotype.
 
If I did a recalc of Soldier Boy's feat using the speed at which nuclear explosions rise upwards, the result would probably be more accurate than assuming a timeframe. I'll probably do that later.
 
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