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The Boys Season 4 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Just_Butchering
- Start date
- 16,101
- 12,091
I appreciate the idea, but he has to. The cards are so stacked in Homelander's favor that The Boys need another good one dealt to them.
Just_Butchering
He/Him- 1,352
- 662
- Thread starter
- #123
Valiant_Abyss
He/Him- 4,998
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Ryan might be the most frustrating character to watch in this entire show.
- 16,101
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Frustrating, but understandable. Idk what I would even do in his situation, he's holding on pretty well.
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If someone started talking shit about my dad like that, I'd punt them too, but I guess my dad isn't Homelander.
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now that we're at it, some characters will get juicy upgrades im ngl.
First; The Deep held an slight upperhand over an (weakened) Annie, did dodge ONE attack from A Train (although this one may be PIS) and withstood many hits from him. This can actually grant the 9-A rating even if its an "at most" one. He also severely deformed a guys head with a punch.
Firecracker also should get the rating at least durability wise.
Next, Sam (and actually, the Gen V god tiers such as Andre, Marie, Jordan and Golden Boy scale below him too) didnt even flinch to getting hit by Kimiko. This doesnt merely grant him the same rating as her but also outperforms ppl like Stormfront or OG Black Noir who are both top tier supes. (I daresay he should get an "at least" rating bc he could even be higher).
Ryan should at least physically scale to the mid tier sups in 9-B to 9-A, its heavily implied hes one of the strongest. Both AP and durability (I actually think hes 8-B dura wise bc of Soldier Boy but eh).
Parasite Butcher should also upscale from Zoe, Vic, Kimiko and Starlight (and not just that, he should get an at least rating bc hes far above them). Durability is kinda weird but i guess the tentacles at least get the dura and Billy himself stays in the same tier.
Zoe also upscales from Kimiko.
(Oh, and Frenchie should get the genius intelligence rating bc of the virus thing).
First; The Deep held an slight upperhand over an (weakened) Annie, did dodge ONE attack from A Train (although this one may be PIS) and withstood many hits from him. This can actually grant the 9-A rating even if its an "at most" one. He also severely deformed a guys head with a punch.
Firecracker also should get the rating at least durability wise.
Next, Sam (and actually, the Gen V god tiers such as Andre, Marie, Jordan and Golden Boy scale below him too) didnt even flinch to getting hit by Kimiko. This doesnt merely grant him the same rating as her but also outperforms ppl like Stormfront or OG Black Noir who are both top tier supes. (I daresay he should get an "at least" rating bc he could even be higher).
Ryan should at least physically scale to the mid tier sups in 9-B to 9-A, its heavily implied hes one of the strongest. Both AP and durability (I actually think hes 8-B dura wise bc of Soldier Boy but eh).
Parasite Butcher should also upscale from Zoe, Vic, Kimiko and Starlight (and not just that, he should get an at least rating bc hes far above them). Durability is kinda weird but i guess the tentacles at least get the dura and Billy himself stays in the same tier.
Zoe also upscales from Kimiko.
(Oh, and Frenchie should get the genius intelligence rating bc of the virus thing).
Ghengiroo115
She/Her- 1,752
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Considering how Annie without her powers beat the shapeshifter who beat Kimiko, I think we can confidently say that Annie didn’t get physically weaker during the latter half of the season.
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
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mad about Victoria. Best female on show and probably funniest character. Seeing Cindy was cool and soldier boy. But because they killed best character, L
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
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the difference in power between kimoko and starlight is absurd it seems
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Theres actually an explanation for that.
Kimiko overpowered Shapeshifter at first, then checked out that the Boys were escaping and shapeshifter got a cheap shot at her. Shapeshifter went all out while Kimiko didnt seem to.
(And let's be real, Kimiko throught S1/S2 showed to be stronger than SL at least brute force wise, and thats what I get from their perfomances against BN and Stormfront)
Kimiko overpowered Shapeshifter at first, then checked out that the Boys were escaping and shapeshifter got a cheap shot at her. Shapeshifter went all out while Kimiko didnt seem to.
(And let's be real, Kimiko throught S1/S2 showed to be stronger than SL at least brute force wise, and thats what I get from their perfomances against BN and Stormfront)
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I'll be real with you guys, I just don't see Deep being able to fight with Stormfront or Black Noir as the girls did (or better) individually or in a team. Even if the girls are like the biggest jobbers in the verse by now.
(Not that I disagree w him being 9-A, tho).
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Ghengiroo115
She/Her- 1,752
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True, though I don’t think Kimiko would be massively less durable than normal just because she wasn’t fully trying. Annie and Kimiko are usually portrayed as relatively comparable even if Kimiko was a bit stronger so I think the argument still works.
On a slightly related note, didn’t Annie pre-power loss do much more damage to Firecracker than Kimiko did? Was it just a rage amp or did she have some permanent power boost to some extent after that moment at the end of Season 3? Correct me if I’m wrong but that moment was also what let her unlock flight, right? Not saying she should fully scale to (at most) 8-A or anything, just that it’s possible she at least got some kind of power boost. It would probably mean her power loss did make her physically weaker though since it wouldn’t make sense for her to be weaker than both Deep and Kimiko, however since that possible power amp came from electricity it might be like a “she’s now amping herself with her light powers” kinda deal.
(That whole little tirade was based on w/ powers Annie > Kimiko so I hope I remembered those moments right lol)
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
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No, she just lost
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it's actually possible for Annie to have gotten a slight power boost after Season 3 finale, but no proof whatsoever (most likely w Season 4 finale, esp when she seems to be amping her strength with as little light as she can; halfway throught season she wasnt just unable to amp herself but also in a big identity crisis which could detriment her strength; Firecracker was confident in going 1v1 against Annie when she was powerless so that could say smth)
As for their Firecracker perfomances Annie was essentially bloodlusted and went apeshit on her (and Firecracker didn't fight back). Kimiko didn't seem overly serious against her (and still had an clear upperhand IIRC)
aaaaaaalso Kimiko has weird durability feats bc she can withstand 9-A attacks then Frenchie cuts her leg w a chainsaw and her neck can be snapped by almost everyone.
Imo Amped Annie ~ Kimiko > Deep >/~ Powerless Annie > Shapeshifter
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
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It's not that firecracker didn't fight back, she couldn't cause she was getting stomped. Season 4 Annie is built different. Season 4 Annie > previous. Kimiko couldn't stop the shape shifter from banging her head on the ground that part wasnt a surprise attack. She couldn't stop the head bang on the ground nor the neck snap. While starlight choked that Same person out
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Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
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I disagree I would put kimiko at the bottom of your scaling chain. Supes who are unharmed by bullets are physically superior to to those that are
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If Butcher and him were alone in there and Butcher explained things slowly, he'd be fine.
Just_Butchering
He/Him- 1,352
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- Thread starter
- #142
People keep bringing "weakened Annie" but it was only her light blasts. Annie fought well with Deep, who took hits from A-Train (unless A-Train is also nerfed) and fought characters that could hurt her (and her durability wasn't nerfed)
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
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Starlight is a mid tier supe. A-train, The deep fall under this too.
High tiers are Meave, Victoria Neuman, Soldier Boy, Homelander. Stormfront too I think.
Kimiko is like.. Low-Mid. Only mid because her offense isnt that bad, but her durability is pretty whack. Most of mid to high isn't even hurt by bullets. Annie issue was probably experience and lack of drive. This season she might not even be stronger. She just acting more aggressive. We've never seen her act this violent in her fights. Basically, I think she just didn't have the mental other powerful supes had. She's just on timing. None of that angel bs. The only thing that changed was mental
High tiers are Meave, Victoria Neuman, Soldier Boy, Homelander. Stormfront too I think.
Kimiko is like.. Low-Mid. Only mid because her offense isnt that bad, but her durability is pretty whack. Most of mid to high isn't even hurt by bullets. Annie issue was probably experience and lack of drive. This season she might not even be stronger. She just acting more aggressive. We've never seen her act this violent in her fights. Basically, I think she just didn't have the mental other powerful supes had. She's just on timing. None of that angel bs. The only thing that changed was mental
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
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Starlight is superior to kimiko just on fact she took two sniper rounds to chest. An aggressive Annie is beating her in seconds
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
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I really wish they went through the Deep and A train scene. I was so ready just like Ashley
Just_Butchering
He/Him- 1,352
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- Thread starter
- #146
That doesn't make anything. Noir wasn't bulletproof either and he whooped Annie in secs. Kimiko also has hella healing and better combat skills.
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
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Combat skills matter too yea kimiko has skills starlight doesn't
Just_Butchering
He/Him- 1,352
- 662
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,163
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Becca should also be considered one of Butchers personalities, no?
Ghengiroo115
She/Her- 1,752
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Looks good, although I think it’ll be good to list Billy’s own physicals in his third key since it’s pretty important in a fight (“9-C physically, at least 9-A with the V’d up tumour”). Also with that in mind it’d be good to change the key names to more accurately reflect each state. Maybe just something simple like “Season 1-3 | Empowered by Temp V | Season 4”.
Tapkmiz
He/Him- 61
- 60
My personal opinion: since this is still Butcher's profile we're talking about I think it'd be best to name the key 'post Temp V use' and have the rating be '[Butcher's base, which probably warrants a 'varies' considering he went from bedridden to very fit], at least 9-A with tumor' as to prevent confusion between his base and the tumor particularly with durability.
EDIT: ninja'd lol
Ghengiroo115
She/Her- 1,752
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I was thinking something like “Post-Temp V Overuse” for his Season 4 key name in order to make things a bit more understandable for anyone unfamiliar with the series, but then I remembered the V’d up tumour is a combination of both the overuse and Compound V. That’s pretty hard to portray in a key name so I just thought “forget it” and suggested just Season 4 for the name.
This is an interesting point. I think there’s not enough info right now to say for sure and we’ll have to wait until Season 5 for some more clarification, but rn it’s certainly not impossible that Kessler could affect Billy’s strength alongside his health. Would explain his knocking out Firecracker moment, and I still find it strange how Billy himself was seemingly unaffected by Compound V.
Just_Butchering
He/Him- 1,352
- 662
- Thread starter
- #153
Neither kessler or Becca are personalities, but parts of Butcher's conlficted morals
I was thinking about that, I just thought that was listing all of his ratings (physicals and weapons) would make the profiles a little too long, but I'll get to it
Tapkmiz
He/Him- 61
- 60
I was going along the lines of the tumor controlling Butcher's health; basically going from below his base strength to his base strength instead of a rating higher than it; Kessler does state that he's just 'giving him the juice' but he might just mean the tentacle powers. Anything else would be speculation on my part.
I can't really comment on Firecracker because supes aren't always granted super strength, and judging by how badly she got beaten by Starlight compared to other supes like Deep I am tempted to say that she really doesn't have it.
Just_Butchering
He/Him- 1,352
- 662
- Thread starter
- #155
Firecracker saying she has super strength and fighting kimiko:
Tapkmiz
He/Him- 61
- 60
....i forgorFirecracker saying she has super strength and fighting kimiko:
Ghengiroo115
She/Her- 1,752
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Ye I was going by that angle, with him being [insert tier here] at his physical peak but being potentially weakened by the tumour.
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There is a baseline level of strength for supes, lemme find it
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Baseline should be wall level, I've already done the math but once I apply the corrections to my most recent calc in the actual blog itself Butcher should normally be 17 Kilojoules (Wall level) normally prior to taking any V of either kind
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Found it but it was for lifting strength. Random supes applying for the seven can bench up to 10,000 pounds. Which easily applies to other workouts like squats and deadlift since they recruit larger muscle groups.
