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The Boys Season 4 Discussion Thread

Hellbeast said:
oo what happened
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I don't even know where to begin... Homelander ordered for the death of anyone with dirt on him. Victoria's cover was exposed. Ryan and Homelander conflict. They had to hide the president so he wouldn't be killed. Mf shapeshifter got found out and they had to fight her. Ryan got told the truth about Homelander but wouldn't help Butcher. Victoria was fearful of homelander and finally gave up, tried to join the boys. But Butcher decided to take Kessler's hand and killed Victoria!!! He might be one of the strongest Supes in the entire series now! And he seems to be wayyyyy more BUTCHER now, no more soft shit. President got ****** so new guy stepped up and pretty much instantly became Homelanders lapdog so now Homelander has a lot of power of the white house and can have supes do whatever he wants. Ep ended with the boys being taken away by multiple supes/secret agents it seems who were sent out to get them. And in after credits Homelander finds Soldier Boy in a chamber!!!
 
Unfortunately, literally zero A-Train screentime this time. That was very unexpected. Still, I think this has to be the best episode in the season by a lot.

Overall, I think this season is probably the weakest one. I have a lot of issues with it. The beginning was disjointed, the newly introduced characters (like Firecracker) are pretty meh. The politics are not only way more on the nose, but also way more lazy. Some of the writing in general also feel a lot more lazy. Like why the heck was sister sage apparently looked down upon when she was literally genetically made to be a super with super smarts? It makes no sense.

Still, season finale is by far the biggest highlight of the season and probably the best finale I can remember.

A-Train's redemption, Butcher/Kessler's relationship, and obviously Homelander were the best part of this season for me.

I think S5 will be much better just based on what was set up here.
 
Phoenks said:
Like why the heck was sister sage apparently looked down upon when she was literally genetically made to be a super with super smarts? It makes no sense.
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1. She was a child when the doctors laughed at her
2. People just straight up don't get listened to if they can't deliver info in a way people like, no matter how smart they are.
 
Actually kind of funny to look back at the first few episodes and compare the problems they had to deal with in those to the @#&! they're in now, lol.

I think this power fits Butcher better than 'basically just the Homelander' Temp V stuff.
 
Phoenks said:
[Snip
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I am gonna be honest I really ******' like Kessler Butcher, even more than Billy Butcher. Did he change to Kessler after seeing Ryan wont help him? Does this mean Butcher might attack Ryan in Season 5? Another thing I am curious if what Homelander will do with Soldier Boy, possibly Grandpa Father and Son trio incoming?
 
SlendVeny said:
1. She was a child when the doctors laughed at her
2. People just straight up don't get listened to if they can't deliver info in a way people like, no matter how smart they are.
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Being a child is rendered completely irrelevant when you are literally genetically engineered to be superhumanly intelligent. So is this idea that "doctors" just wouldn't listen to her when she presents like actual solutions. It's lazy writing that feels like the most forced gender politics ever lol.

Look, you can make all the excuses for it, but to me I don't see how it's anything but.

Sage in general is a pool of bad writing. Her smart character is not done very well because all her "plans" don't feel organic. Like the writers wrote the plot naturally and then slapped on the "and this was all Sage's plan all along!" She doesn't feel like a believably intelligent character to me whatsoever.

Soldier Boy completely obliterates this season's new cast in terms of likeability, writing, and character.
 
ShionAH said:
I am gonna be honest I really ******' like Kessler Butcher, even more than Billy Butcher. Did he change to Kessler after seeing Ryan wont help him? Does this mean Butcher might attack Ryan in Season 5? Another thing I am curious if what Homelander will do with Soldier Boy, possibly Grandpa Father and Son trio incoming?
Click to expand...
Butcher might end up being the new final boss lmao. I'm guessing he changed after the Ryan thing yeah. Crazy how he went from looking like a dead man to being the healthiest I've ever seen him when accepting Kessler's deal. He is gonna be extremely fun to watch now... Well, in about 2 more years I guess...
 
I enjoyed this season finale. Everything added up for the most part, and generally, it compensates for the lack of thrill in the earlier episodes. It also seems like Kesler has been holding Butcher back until they reached an agreement to eradicate all supes. Ryan dropped a bomb of realization with his actions, revealing there is no hope left for anyone who is super-abled, and guaranteed, Butcher won't hesitate to harm Ryan or any supes in general. Butcher, or what he appears to be, is a force of nature currently. But now that Sage has Frenchie, it's going to mess him up terribly. I will be looking forward to season 5 within 2 years. This show was and is really entertaining.
 
Frenchie should probably be updated to Genius, at the very least, by the way. Being able to make a biological superweapon that could potentially cause Supe genocide in a dirty basement with trash material is pretty ridiculous levels of chemistry intellect.
 
Phoenks said:
Frenchie should probably be updated to Genius, at the very least, by the way. Being able to make a biological superweapon that could potentially cause Supe genocide in a dirty basement with trash material is pretty ridiculous levels of chemistry intellect.
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I was thinking the same, though Idk if he made it to such level. Pretty sure he got it to Neuman's level (so, sightly above average supe) and he already had something to work with
 
Btw, does Vicky not have a profile? Dang.

Honestly, she is a pretty OP tier 9 lmao. I think I'd consider her power to be biological manipulation.

Edit: Nvm, it is blood manipulation.
 
Phoenks said:
Btw, does Vicky not have a profile? Dang.

Honestly, she is a pretty OP tier 9 lmao. I think I'd consider her power to be biological manipulation.

Edit: Nvm, it is blood manipulation.
Click to expand...
Gen V moment lol

Working on it! Though if anyone wants to help with her intelligence section, that'll be great. Like, gifted for sure, but I don't remember have her feats lol
 
Phoenks said:
Being a child is rendered completely irrelevant when you are literally genetically engineered to be superhumanly intelligent. So is this idea that "doctors" just wouldn't listen to her when she presents like actual solutions. It's lazy writing that feels like the most forced gender politics ever lol.

Look, you can make all the excuses for it, but to me I don't see how it's anything but.

Sage in general is a pool of bad writing. Her smart character is not done very well because all her "plans" don't feel organic. Like the writers wrote the plot naturally and then slapped on the "and this was all Sage's plan all along!" She doesn't feel like a believably intelligent character to me whatsoever.

Soldier Boy completely obliterates this season's new cast in terms of likeability, writing, and character.
Click to expand...
Where are you getting the idea that she was specifically engineered to be super smart? The powers gotten from Compound V are completely random.
 
So so season, great
**** Annie for being angry with Hughie for being raped 20 times. The Shifter was right. She really does think she's better than everyone else. Eat shit on the landing.

I hope Ryan simply shut down after killing Grace, being unable to process what he just learned and what he did, instead of being a cold killer.

I hope Homelander doesn't kill Soldier Boy while he sleeps and that Soldier Boy decides to **** off, possibly with Ryan and Zoe, to Belize.

Annie can fly very well and carve up her own skin (using cuffs). The Shifter was surprisingly strong, whether it's innate or copied. Deep showcasing he strength has been a treat. Cindy launched that boat. Sam is way stronger than I thought he was, but it makes sense in hindsight (Annie can barely lift a sedan, while Sam can send a car rolling). Neuman getting layered is still useless given Homelander's level of control. I hope Ashley turns up as a successful supe. Venom Butcher is definitely a force to be reckoned with.
 
Reyne said:
So so season, great
**** Annie for being angry with Hughie for being raped 20 times. The Shifter was right. She really does think she's better than everyone else. Eat shit on the landing.
Click to expand...
To be fair, being kidnapped for at least a week and then coming back while knowing your partner has been ******* your kidnapper is a tough pill to swallow, and she made up with him immediately afterwards
 
Redite250 said:
To be fair, being kidnapped for at least a week and then coming back while knowing your partner has been ******* your kidnapper is a tough pill to swallow, and she made up with him immediately afterwards
Click to expand...
She didn't acknowledge he had been a victim himself, with Hughie having to get excited that she's going to move past his wrong doing. It wasn't framed well, and with Kriple saying his sexual assault on Ep6 was a joke, I have no doubt that he didn't view Hughie as a victim this time either.
 
Reyne said:
She didn't acknowledge he had been a victim himself, with Hughie having to get excited that she's going to move past his wrong doing. It wasn't framed well, and with Kriple saying his sexual assault on Ep6 was a joke, I have no doubt that he didn't view Hughie as a victim this time either.
Click to expand...
I agree that it wasn't framed well, but that's moreso the writer's (and Kripke's) fault for being weirdos
 
Phoenks said:
Being a child is rendered completely irrelevant when you are literally genetically engineered to be superhumanly intelligent.
Click to expand...
The doctors wouldn't have known that.
Phoenks said:
So is this idea that "doctors" just wouldn't listen to her when she presents like actual solutions. It's lazy writing that feels like the most forced gender politics ever lol.
Click to expand...
No matter how smart you are, most people will think they're smarter.
 
Reyne said:
**** Annie for being angry with Hughie for being raped 20 times. The Shifter was right. She really does think she's better than everyone else. Eat shit on the landing.

I hope Ryan simply shut down after killing Grace, being unable to process what he just learned and what he did, instead of being a cold killer.

I hope Homelander doesn't kill Soldier Boy while he sleeps and that Soldier Boy decides to **** off, possibly with Ryan and Zoe, to Belize.

Annie can fly very well and carve up her own skin (using cuffs). The Shifter was surprisingly strong, whether it's innate or copied. Deep showcasing he strength has been a treat. Cindy launched that boat. Sam is way stronger than I thought he was, but it makes sense in hindsight (Annie can barely lift a sedan, while Sam can send a car rolling). Neuman getting layered is still useless given Homelander's level of control. I hope Ashley turns up as a successful supe. Venom Butcher is definitely a force to be reckoned with.
Click to expand...
I am ngl to you the way it was portrayed made it seem like Ryan purposefully killed Grace... I don't really know how to feel about that. It seems REALLY ****** up for a kid. Also, the way he reacted by just... going away... I don't understand it. This kid is already completely messed up in the head. Soldier Boy might team up with Homelander, considering it was Butcher that got him in that state in the first place, really. Dude might want revenge.
 
Some relevant things from the season:

  • Homelander is highly resistant to disease.
  • Neuman is resistant to Homelander's laser vision to an extent.
  • Sister Sage seems to be the only Supe that isn't granted super strength. Her intelligence is probably extraordinary genius for being capable of coming up with cures for cancer, ways to revert climate change, and whatnot fairly simply. As a kid she could also create a cure for a disease that didn't have a cure. Also seems to have read countless books and whatnot. I'm not sure how to list her brain regeneration. It is specifically limited to the brain so other lethal injuries will kill her. She also has pretty good information analysis shown from her first interactions with Homelander.
  • Kimiko's regeneration should just be straight up Low-Mid. She healed entire limbs in the season. Although it does take a fair amount of time.
  • Butcher with V Tumor scales far higher than Starlight, Kimiko, and Neuman. Hughie mentioned it'd be suicide for them to attack him. He should get "Natural Weaponry" and "Multiple Personalities." Possibly regeneration as well, since he seems to be clearly healed from what he was experiencing before.
  • I'm not sure if Deep's reactions should be upgrade. He sorta dodged an attack from A-Train, but it seems to be a one time occurrence.
  • New Black Noir can fly.
 
Phoenks said:
Some relevant things from the season:
Click to expand...
No Neuman is not resistant to Homelanders heat vision, he did not use it to kill her. He just wanted her to react and show she is a supe. Deep should also get a upgraded reaction speed yes
 
Phoenks said:
Some relevant things from the season:

  • Homelander is highly resistant to disease.
  • Neuman is resistant to Homelander's laser vision to an extent.
  • Sister Sage seems to be the only Supe that isn't granted super strength. Her intelligence is probably extraordinary genius for being capable of coming up with cures for cancer, ways to revert climate change, and whatnot fairly simply. As a kid she could also create a cure for a disease that didn't have a cure. Also seems to have read countless books and whatnot. I'm not sure how to list her brain regeneration. It is specifically limited to the brain so other lethal injuries will kill her. She also has pretty good information analysis shown from her first interactions with Homelander.
  • Kimiko's regeneration should just be straight up Low-Mid. She healed entire limbs in the season. Although it does take a fair amount of time.
  • Butcher with V Tumor scales far higher than Starlight, Kimiko, and Neuman. Hughie mentioned it'd be suicide for them to attack him. He should get "Natural Weaponry" and "Multiple Personalities." Possibly regeneration as well, since he seems to be clearly healed from what he was experiencing before.
  • I'm not sure if Deep's reactions should be upgrade. He sorta dodged an attack from A-Train, but it seems to be a one time occurrence.
  • New Black Noir can fly.
Click to expand...
Mesmer and Lampfighter didn't have super strength or durability either, so it's not uncommon.
The Deep dodging was either aim dodging or PIS, otherwise A-Train blitzed him.

For the rest, I'll add them to the Sandboxes so you can check them out.
 
Phoenks said:
Some relevant things from the season:

  • Possibly regeneration as well, since he seems to be clearly healed from what he was experiencing before.
Click to expand...
Maybe my eyes were playing tricks on me, but it also looked like the V’d up tumour burst out of Billy the same way it did the rabbit yet his chest was fine after it went back inside of him.
 
Phoenks said:
Some relevant things from the season:

  • I'm not sure how to list her brain regeneration. It is specifically limited to the brain so other lethal injuries will kill her.
Click to expand...
Adding an explanatory note for Sage's regen (or the immortality that'd come from that, because I'm pretty sure it falls under Type 2, given that she also survived a gunshot to the head) specifying that it only applies to her brain would be enough I believe; I forget the exact rating that regenerating from otherwise lethal organ damage would be though.
 
Some powerscaling takeaways from the ending of the episode:


Sam upscales from Kimiko, casually restrained her and no-sold her punches.

Love Sausage’s love sausage is at least 9-C from one-shoting Mother’s Milk.

The magnet chick from Sage Grove lifted a fishing boat and hurled it towards Starlight and Hughie. Fishing boats usually weight between 1700 to 2900 pounds.

Starlight has a pretty decent flight speed. It sounded like a sonic boom, but it had no visual effect.
 
Btw, didn’t Billy knock out Firecracker in one of the earlier episodes? Idk if that can be used for scaling (especially since they kinda make it a point to portray him as offensively the same in any other scene), but we know Compound V has had some effect on Billy himself due to his durability feats against Noir so it wouldn’t be too surprising if he was also stronger even without the tumour.

Also also, what would we call that thing that comes out of him when it comes to updating his profile? V’d up Tumour? Super Cancer? Joe Kessler?
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Btw, didn’t Billy knock out Firecracker in one of the earlier episodes? Idk if that can be used for scaling (especially since they kinda make it a point to portray him as offensively the same in any other scene), but we know Compound V has had some effect on him due to his durability feats against Noir so it wouldn’t be too surprising if he was also stronger even without the tumour.

Also also, what would we call that thing that comes out of him when it comes to updating his profile? V’d up Tumour? Super Cancer? Joe Kessler?
Click to expand...
Butcher doesn't have powers, only the tumor. If he did, then, one, so does MM (he drew blood from Billy) and two, would've fair better against Noir. Him surviving his hits doesn't matter since it's just your average The Boys Plot armor (supes playing with the boys instead of killing them)
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Maybe my eyes were playing tricks on me, but it also looked like the V’d up tumour burst out of Billy the same way it did the rabbit yet his chest was fine after it went back inside of him.
Click to expand...
Yes, it was pretty clear foreshadowing.
 
Just_Butchering said:
Butcher doesn't have powers, only the tumor. If he did, then, one, so does MM (he drew blood from Billy) and two, would've fair better against Noir. Him surviving his hits doesn't matter since it's just your average The Boys Plot armor (supes playing with the boys instead of killing them)
Click to expand...
Forgot about that scene of MM punching him so that’s my bad and keeps him from scaling higher (even though it’s kinda weird that the V didn’t affect himself at all), but I was mainly referring to Billy getting slammed through a table by Noir and being pretty much fine.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Forgot about that scene of MM punching him so that’s my bad and keeps him from scaling higher (even though it’s kinda weird that the V didn’t affect himself at all), but I was mainly referring to Billy getting slammed through a table by Noir and being pretty much fine.
Click to expand...
I was gonna remake my calc and add a new one, but remember Butcher took a shockwave that flipped a van over in S2, and Hughie and Frenchie were close to an explosion that sent them flying. The Boys are just build different lol

As for the tumor, I was planning on giving him a keys called "V'd up Tumor" and in his powers and abilities add one called "Post Temp-V Overuse", to add the extra powers
 
gonna watch the finale later tonight. everyone's hyping it up so i have high expectations. a bit worried that it'll fall flat tho cause this season hasn't been that good IMO.
 
ShionAH said:
Make it Super Cancer lmao
Click to expand...
Lmao

Genuinely though, do they simply call it as a "V'd up tumor", right?

This Butcher key would have:
* Multiple Selves (Type 3)
*Instintive Action (The tumor killed Ezekiel without Butcher's conscious decision)
*Limited Regeneration (Mid-Low. Only for closing the wounds of the tumor getting out of Billy)
*Bodily Weaponry (self-explanatory)
*And I think it's Bulletproof?
 
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