The Boxer: J's profile and few upgrades

[Zefra3011]

I made a profile for J

Sandbox


There are also upgrades for Fabrizio and Yu:

- While J was able to block Yu's monster stance (scans) he got damaged in doing it, therefore Yu's monster stance (in his third key), which has an higher scaling over his normal AP, should scale to Small Building since J's durability scales to that value (see the sandbox for the scans).

- Fabrizio's second key should also scale to J's stats since they fought and Fabrizio was even able to damage J even tho just barely.



EDIT:

Based on the discussion below everyone's range and will change to Standard Melee Range and Athletic Human (see here and here)

 

[RoggerReggor]

• Lifting Strength should be like Peak Human instead of Peak Human level.
• Intelligence seems more like Above Average to Gifted, considering how it's a single feat which escaped Marco's Information Analysis and he specifically counters just one person with his unconventional and versatile fighting style. Genius imo would be when J pulls off something insane in this regard, predicts that there's a boxer named Marco who would be seeing his fights, and prepares a strategy where he himself changes his fighting style to resist habits analysis.

Everything else is a W.

 

[Zefra3011]

• Lifting Strength should be like Peak Human instead of Peak Human level.

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• Intelligence seems more like Above Average to Gifted, considering how it's a single feat which escaped Marco's Information Analysis and he specifically counters just one person with his unconventional and versatile fighting style. Genius imo would be when J pulls off something insane in this regard, predicts that there's a boxer named Marco who would be seeing his fights, and prepares a strategy where he himself changes his fighting style to resist habits analysis.

Imo it shouldn't be that low, the point of the feat is not only resisting Marco but it's also having a fighting style where you never actually "repeat" the way you fight, it's even directly stated that even Jean, who scales Genius, isn't able to do the same, which also implies not even the other geniuses in the verse (Ryu, SIha and maybe not even Yu) would be able to pull out this feat; while this doesn't mean J has the highest BIQ in the verse it's still worth noting he is the only one able to do this in a verse with high BIQ. It's also directly implied that it's not humanly possible and Genius rating is the human maximum limit, I'm also pretty sure it's impossible IRL to have zero habits when you fight.

If anything I can see a Gifted due to lacking of other feats but definitely not Above Average.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Imo it shouldn't be that low, the point of the feat is not only resisting Marco but it's also having a fighting style where you never actually "repeat" the way you fight, it's even directly stated that even Jean, who scales Genius, isn't able to do the same, which also implies not even the other geniuses in the verse (Ryu, SIha and maybe not even Yu) would be able to pull out this feat; while this doesn't mean J has the highest BIQ in the verse it's still worth noting he is the only one able to do this in a verse with high BIQ. It's also directly implied that it's not humanly possible and Genius rating is the human maximum limit, I'm also pretty sure it's impossible IRL to have zero habits when you fight.

I don't know honestly. I think it does show that he has a lot of knowledge of moves to the point where he doesn't need to repeat the ones he has already performed or is fluid enough with his movements.

Secondly, the point about J being able to be good against a smarter person is not convincing. You may be less good with intelligence and still perfectly counter a person with better intelligence just due to some trait which you may possess, it doesn't necessarily warrant a higher intelligence. Many of Sherlock's investigations, in fact, most of them had criminals with lesser intellect than Sherlock, but they still gave Sherlock a hard time. That doesn't mean that the criminals were smarter than Sherlock, but that they countered Sherlock to some extent. Putting that into this, it would be seem as a complete countering.

But yes, having a higher BIQ than everyone in the verse can be a good thing for it.

If anything I can see a Gifted due to lacking of other feats but definitely not Above Average.

Gifted seems okay-ish enough to me as well. Genius can be the case though if he's directly stated to be more battle-intelligent than others in the verse, going by how smart most The Boxer characters are in battles.

 

[Robo432343]

why is J blocking Yu's monster's stance an AP feat? isn't that durability??

 

[Zefra3011]

why is J blocking Yu's monster's stance an AP feat? isn't that durability??

I mean, he didn't simply went in the way and took the hit, he stopped it with his arm and therefore he stopped the force of it.

 

[Zefra3011]

I don't know honestly. I think it does show that he has a lot of knowledge of moves to the point where he doesn't need to repeat the ones he has already performed or is fluid enough with his movements.

I'm not sure what you mean here but habits are also how your respond to attacks, for example Yu has the habit of dodging attacks when they are about to hit him using the minimum required motion, habits are more than just "having a large arsenal of moves" it can literally involve anything someone can repeat like combo, ways of reacting, how you strategize in fight...

Secondly, the point about J being able to be good against a smarter person is not convincing. You may be less good with intelligence and still perfectly counter a person with better intelligence just due to some trait which you may possess, it doesn't necessarily warrant a higher intelligence. Many of Sherlock's investigations, in fact, most of them had criminals with lesser intellect than Sherlock, but they still gave Sherlock a hard time. That doesn't mean that the criminals were smarter than Sherlock, but that they countered Sherlock to some extent. Putting that into this, it would be seem as a complete countering.

I see what you mean here and I agree, tho I acknowledged J hasn't the highest BIQ in the verse, I just used it as supportive evidence.

Gifted seems okay-ish enough to me as well. Genius can be the case though if he's directly stated to be more battle-intelligent than others in the verse, going by how smart most The Boxer characters are in battles.

The only thing I can add is this:

Jean is rated Genius, Jean said that Marco is on his level of Ring-IQ, Marco can't make a strategy to counter J. It's also worth mentioning Marco could make a strategy against Yu, who is At Least Genius, it didn't work but for other reasons.

But given your point above I don't think it's enough.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I'm not sure what you mean here but habits are also how your respond to attacks, for example Yu has the habit of dodging attacks when they are about to hit him using the minimum required motion, habits are more than just "having a large arsenal of moves" it can literally involve anything someone can repeat like combo, ways of reacting, how you strategize in fight...

Maybe so, but I think having a high knowledge seems likely the case, or it would mean J learns new techniques every moment so that he can just discard the previous one.

The only thing I can add is this:

Jean is rated Genius, Jean said that Marco is on his level of Ring-IQ, Marco can't make a strategy to counter J. It's also worth mentioning Marco could make a strategy against Yu, who is At Least Genius, it didn't work but for other reasons.

But given your point above I don't think it's enough.

I mean, it all comes down to context. Yu is At least Genius, but that itself is due to how good and fast he is at learning. Yu is not fundamentally a person who would make a strategy, so saying that someone could make a better strategy than Yu and be scaled above them wouldn't be the best of the reasons.

For example, consider two characters A and B. Character A happens to have a very high IQ which is essentially the ability of having a great cognitive proficiency and general ability, and another Character B happens to have a very high EQ, which is essentially having high intrapersonal and interpersonal emotional intelligence. Now, dependent on scenario, Character B may outperform Character A in some aspect which required more EQ, but that wouldn't necessarily that Character B would have a very high IQ as well. If both were to have a VSBW profile, both would be geniuses. Though yes, it is evident that people with high EQ do possess decent IQ (vice-versa is not true though), I hope you get my point. Specializing in one thing doesn't necessarily make it enough to draw a comparison.

 

[Zefra3011]

Yeah I get your point, Gifted might be better then. I'll wait for other opinions.

 

[Zefra3011]

bump

 

[Zefra3011]

bump

 

[Zefra3011]

Bump

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I also agree with Reggor on the Genius rating, I already talked to Zefra about this too

I'm also not convinced about his resistence to info analysis and ANPR, But the rest is cool

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Profiles like this need to specify that they have only average intelligence feats broadly if all of their stuff is "they're skilled in combat ". So, "Average, Genius in terms of combat skill" or however you'd like to present it. This also comes with removing it from his P&A, unless he has better showings of legitimate genius intelligence than fighting skill.

Social Influencing seems pretty much moot, you can have the personality of a cactus and still inspire people just by fighting, this isn't a talent he actually has.

You have no justification on Lifting Strength.

"Reach" is not equivalent to "Range". Reach is from the tip of their fingers on one arm, across the shoulders, all the way to the tip of their fingers on the other arm. This isn't how far away they can hit. They have Standard Melee Range.

Stamina seems more like Peak Human to me (all basically standard high-end boxing stuff, from the scans?), but it's less cut-and-dry, at least.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The scaling proposals are weirdly phrased, so I'll restate them for my own sake:

• Viktor performed a 9-A feat (with an accepted calculation)
• Yu one-shot Viktor, so 9-A scales to Yu
• Yu did not one-shot J, so 9-A scales to J
• Fabrizio could kinda hurt J, so 9-A scales to Fabrizio

I think Fabrizio's case is like, "At least x, possibly 9-A" at best, if this is all accurate. Otherwise, sure.

 

[Zefra3011]

Profiles like this need to specify that they have only average intelligence feats broadly if all of their stuff is "they're skilled in combat ". So, "Average, Genius in terms of combat skill" or however you'd like to present it. This also comes with removing it from his P&A, unless he has better showings of legitimate genius intelligence than fighting skill.

Fair

Social Influencing seems pretty much moot, you can have the personality of a cactus and still inspire people just by fighting, this isn't a talent he actually has.

I'm not sure about this, it's a bit more than just "inspiring", J was outright able to make Yu, who felt alone and emotionless his entire life, has depression, always saw life as boring and never cared about killing someone, feel emotions for the first time with a match. But even if, shouldn't he keep a Reputation SI? Every single boxer respects him he is considered the god of boxing.

You have no justification on Lifting Strength.

It was accepted here to have everyone at least at that tier, the justification was pretty much "they look like they have enough muscle mass to scale there". What should I put?

"Reach" is not equivalent to "Range". Reach is from the tip of their fingers on one arm, across the shoulders, all the way to the tip of their fingers on the other arm. This isn't how far away they can hit. They have Standard Melee Range.

That's fair, I just copied what's on the other profiles for that

Stamina seems more like Peak Human to me (all basically standard high-end boxing stuff, from the scans?), but it's less cut-and-dry, at least.

I mean, if it fits more peak human rating it's fine but can an IRL boxer really endure that?

I think Fabrizio's case is like, "At least x, possibly 9-A" at best, if this is all accurate. Otherwise, sure.

Idk if this helps but Fabrizio can endure an attack on his PP even tho he almost got KO. Since between J and the calc there is a one shot gap shouldn't Fabrizio just scale to the value of the calc? Viktor (who made the feat) got one shotted by Yu and J scales to Yu, Since Fabrizio doesn't get one shotted even when he gets hit in his PP shouldn't he straight up scale to the value? I believe it also counts for AP, Fabrizio could barely damage J but J scales a one shot above the 9-A calc.

Anyway thanks for checking.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It was accepted here to have everyone at least at that tier, the justification was pretty much "they look like they have enough muscle mass to scale there". What should I put?

If that's the actual justification, I think that sucks tremendously lol

That's fair, I just copied what's on the other profiles for that

They need fixed, then, it's just a matter of someone who doesn't know what the terminology means and mistook it. No big deal.

I mean, if it fits more peak human rating it's fine but can an IRL boxer really endure that?

You watched much IRL MMA stuff?

Idk if this helps but Fabrizio can endure an attack on his PP even tho he almost got KO. Since between J and the calc there is a one shot gap shouldn't Fabrizio just scale to the value of the calc? Viktor (who made the feat) got one shotted by Yu and J scales to Yu, Since Fabrizio doesn't get one shotted even when he gets hit in his PP shouldn't he straight up scale to the value? I believe it also counts for AP, Fabrizio could barely damage J but J scales a one shot above the 9-A calc.

Anyway thanks for checking.

Likely is fine, then, I just don't think it's good to put them as 1:1 if there's such a significant disparity between them.

 

[Zefra3011]

If that's the actual justification, I think that sucks tremendously lol

I initially proposed to scale them athletic human because there are characters like Takeda (junior welterweight) who can do at least 1000 push ups + the rest of his training which also includes walking in uphill with two trucks tires tied but at the end it was accepted peak human.

They need fixed, then, it's just a matter of someone who doesn't know what the terminology means and mistook it. No big deal.

Is it fine if I add the LS part and this in the OP so I can correct the other profiles as well?

You watched much IRL MMA stuff?

not really

Likely is fine, then, I just don't think it's good to put them as 1:1 if there's such a significant disparity between them.

Fair but what about speed? while in AP and Durability there is a gap, speed wise it doesn't seems like the case, other than J using a surprise attack to "blitz" Fabrizio at the start I don't really see a gap between them, Fabrizio could in fact hit J. The fight starts at chapter 97 (The Boxer), maybe you want to check.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Is it fine if I add the LS part and this in the OP so I can correct the other profiles as well?

Yeah.

not really

My point would be that there's definitely a case for the shit dealt with there to be similar to here. Maybe Superhuman is alright, though, I dunno. I think it treads the threshold. I hate to always propose multiple ratings, but would "At least Peak Human, likely Superhuman" be fine? Looking at it again, case to be made for either end.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Fair but what about speed? while in AP and Durability there is a gap, speed wise it doesn't seems like the case, other than J using a surprise attack to "blitz" Fabrizio at the start I don't really see a gap between them, Fabrizio could in fact hit J. The fight starts at chapter 97 (The Boxer), maybe you want to check.

I didn't mention speed because you didn't mention a notable difference in speed (whereas you did point out a substantial difference in AP). If they're approximately the same speed, scaling speed is fine.

 

[RoggerReggor]

If that's the actual justification, I think that sucks tremendously lol

Tbf, IRL bodybuilders or fighters with that kind of muscle mass would easily go into Athletic-Peak human tier. Though I would not consider myself a big fan of relating reality and fiction in LS most of the times (considering how there are some characters with stickman body and can lift a lot), can't we relate them at least here and use the amount of muscle mass shown in their body as a justification for at least a decent LS? Because it clearly wouldn't make sense for a very buffed guy to have like Average Human LS. I remember the case of The Boxer was that the LS tiers were put as "Unknown", but I honestly don't see anything wrong with "Unknown, at least Athletic Human, possibly Peak human (The character has a considerable amount of muscle mass which should justify this)" kind of thing, which can not only give an "Unknown" rating to the profile, but also not mess up with how the character's fights in VS threads would go, and make them have at least a decent LS for a fight, because Average to Athletic-Peak human tier is still a big jump and probably justice.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Peak Human lifters generally look like walking blobs of fat. Sheer mass of body is very important.

 

[Zefra3011]

My point would be that there's definitely a case for the shit dealt with there to be similar to here. Maybe Superhuman is alright, though, I dunno. I think it treads the threshold. I hate to always propose multiple ratings, but would "At least Peak Human, likely Superhuman" be fine? Looking at it again, case to be made for either end.

It's fine

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Looks fine from a glance.